Old 12-09-2011, 09:34 PM   #26
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As John stated above, the US army is not supposed to be involved in domestic operations. We have the FBI and local authorities to handle that. I would rather have "terrorists" on the loose rather than people locked up without being charged with any crime.
As I said this is just the first step, towards a police state, any erosion of civil liberty for "security" is a bad thing.

This is overquoted but still so true

“Those who surrender freedom for security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one.”
― Thomas Jefferson
What?? And who is getting put in jail without getting charged? If the military has to step in, frankly I would be concerned because they would have to have a background that makes them think they might be a terrorist.
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Old 12-09-2011, 09:47 PM   #27
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Curse! A good political discussion brewing, and I am just not into participating at the moment. But I do feel Al Qaeda has "won", in that they have changed how Americans think about freedom.

Amazing, really, one guy, commanding 19 guys with boxcutters, affecting a core belief of a nation of 300 million. Amazing.
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Old 12-09-2011, 10:02 PM   #28
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Amazing, really, one guy, commanding 19 guys with boxcutters, affecting a core belief of a nation of 300 million. Amazing.
This has already been my view, and it really is incredible and really tragic.
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Old 12-09-2011, 10:15 PM   #29
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There is nothing in there about US Military Personnel detaining US Citizens on the streets of the United States.
Exactly, which why everyone is crapping a brick sideways.

With regard to the law - something is legal, until a law says it is forbidden.

Since section 1031 and the other sections do not specifically state that they only apply out side the United States, it follows that the Senate specifically chose to include the actions by the military inside the US.

It is plain as day - that is the problem.
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Old 12-09-2011, 10:22 PM   #30
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Anyone who is not scared by this is at the very least missing the bigger picture. Just because you think that this doesnt apply to you means nothing, if you have had any experience with the people that are supposed to uphold our laws lately, you should comprehend how little they of the actual laws they actually understand and how quick they are to blow situations completely out of proportion. This is just the first step down a slipperly slope to a police state, if they find that they can get away with destroying one part of the the constitution, how much longer will it take for them to get rid of the rest of our rights?
I've read 1032, and all it says is that military detention is not REQUIRED, its still fully possible and up the governments discretion. The detention until end of hostilies provision is also very scary, since it seems at this time we have entered what is essentially perpetual war where there is no defined enemy.

How to you define a person as a potential terrorist anyways? With such broad wording it sounds like a way to get rid of opposition, the first step for any police state. Elimination of any of the essential rights given to us by the constitution should be met with alarm. Do you really want to give the government the power to decide whats in your best interest?

All they want is a cold 12 pack of beer and a free months cable TV.

It seems most will trade that for anything.

HG - Well stated BTW.
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Old 12-09-2011, 10:25 PM   #31
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All they want is a cold 12 pack of beer and a free months cable TV.

It seems most will trade that for anything.

HG - Well stated BTW.
Yep, not like we care for this country's safety or anything stupid like that.
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Old 12-09-2011, 10:26 PM   #32
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Curse! A good political discussion brewing, and I am just not into participating at the moment. But I do feel Al Qaeda has "won", in that they have changed how Americans think about freedom.

Amazing, really, one guy, commanding 19 guys with boxcutters, affecting a core belief of a nation of 300 million. Amazing.
That is only a small small part of it.

What it really comes down to is, the group of people that were in power at the time who ceased on the opportunity to use that occurrence as a means to push their agenda and belief system on an otherwise ignorant populous.

There is a reason the GOP is in a state of disarray.
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Old 12-09-2011, 10:49 PM   #33
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The way this law works is that first the govt. has to declare you a terrorist, then go get you. Thus, railfans won't be swept up in the dragnet some of you think is in the offing. They are not going to see you standing by the tracks and declare you a terrorist in the context of this law, okay?

That American citizen they blew up in Yemen was declared a terrorist and a wanted man prior to him being wasted. Does anyone here think he did not get what he deserved?

I am as Constitutionally oriented as anyone, but I also understand reality. We have the right to keep and bear arms, but there are a number of exceptions to that right that seem valid to me. I find it fascinating that people are deriding the GOP and the "Tea Baggers" out of one side of their mouths, while lamenting a perceived loss of freedom in exchange for security out of the other side of their mouth. Those entities are for far less govt. intrusion than the alternative side of the aisle, which thinks govt. knows better than you do how to live your life and spend your money. I'd be more concerned about how your tax dollars are going to subsidize unneeded and unsightly wind turbines that populate the background of more and more rail photos.

Anyway, we have nothing to fear from this as far as taking photos of trains and such, so we can all calm down and go back to assessing how unlevel, unilluminated, and crappily composed other things are...
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Old 12-10-2011, 12:26 AM   #34
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Yep, not like we care for this country's safety or anything stupid like that.
How much do you trust the government to keep you safe? Enough that you are willing to give up your rights to let them?
Interesting read:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods

or prominent members of the government/presidential candidates having views like this.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1o8d01r6KQ

Not that I am making the case for any conspiracy theory but just something to think about. Remember, all the attempted terrorist acts have been foiled by citizens, not the government.
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Old 12-10-2011, 12:52 AM   #35
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I think it's quit amusing I'm seeing GOP hate, and the infamous "teabagger" term; yet the Senate is controlled by DEMOCRATS and the Senate passed the bill.

The "teabaggers" as you so elegantly call them, did not include this in their version of the bill.

A real member of the Tea Party (not a big govt moralist hiding in the TP) would never support this bill.
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Old 12-10-2011, 02:25 AM   #36
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I think it's quit amusing I'm seeing GOP hate, and the infamous "teabagger" term; yet the Senate is controlled by DEMOCRATS and the Senate passed the bill.

The "teabaggers" as you so elegantly call them, did not include this in their version of the bill.

A real member of the Tea Party (not a big govt moralist hiding in the TP) would never support this bill.
Hate to burst you bubble, but the bill passed 93-7 with only 3 Republicans voting NO: Lisa Murkowski, Rand Paul and Dean Heller. So more R's voted Yes than D's actually...

Like it matters at this point
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Old 12-10-2011, 03:44 AM   #37
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I think it's quit amusing I'm seeing GOP hate, and the infamous "teabagger" term; yet the Senate is controlled by DEMOCRATS and the Senate passed the bill.

The "teabaggers" as you so elegantly call them, did not include this in their version of the bill.

A real member of the Tea Party (not a big govt moralist hiding in the TP) would never support this bill.
Someone needs to learn more about the tea party - me thinks.
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Old 12-10-2011, 11:31 AM   #38
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Hate to burst you bubble, but the bill passed 93-7 with only 3 Republicans voting NO: Lisa Murkowski, Rand Paul and Dean Heller. So more R's voted Yes than D's actually...

Like it matters at this point
Really? Didn't you just jump on someone recently for having something politically-themed in their signature?

And now you're reporting on politics?

This is no place for it.

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Old 12-10-2011, 12:54 PM   #39
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This really has zero chance of passing in the house, especially with the rabid teabaggers in there now
I wonder who put it in the bill?
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Old 12-10-2011, 01:17 PM   #40
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Really? Didn't you just jump on someone recently for having something politically-themed in their signature?

And now you're reporting on politics?
I know what your saying, I didn't start the thread. I was just factually reporting on the vote. And really both sides were equally idiotic on the vote. Unacceptable.
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Old 12-10-2011, 04:40 PM   #41
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Hate to burst you bubble, but the bill passed 93-7 with only 3 Republicans voting NO: Lisa Murkowski, Rand Paul and Dean Heller. So more R's voted Yes than D's actually...

Like it matters at this point
I counted 48 Democrats voting YES on the bill and 44 Republicans voting Yes and 1 Independent Voting Yes.

Don't get me wrong, I hate both parties nowadays; but you ignored the 48 D's and one I who voted in favor of it. I like holding both parties accountable.

And Rand Paul is about as Tea Party as you can get and look how he voted.

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Someone needs to learn more about the tea party - me thinks.
I actually have a number of Tea Party friends. The ones I know are pretty much super libertarians who want personal freedom and low taxes. Little extreme for my tastes; but not the rabid hate mongers the media makes them out to be. I've also found a few Big Government Moralists (IE Moral Majority) who have infiltrated the Tea Party though.
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Old 12-10-2011, 04:44 PM   #42
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I wonder who put it in the bill?
There are no co-sponsors and no amendments reported on Thomas.gov; if anyone besides Carl Levin (D-MI) added it; there's no record on Thomas.
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Old 12-10-2011, 05:22 PM   #43
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I counted 48 Democrats voting YES on the bill and 44 Republicans voting Yes and 1 Independent Voting Yes.
We are really splitting hairs here: 93% of republicans and 92% of democrats and 50% of the Independents in the senate voted yes...

I dont see how you can put a positive spin on your party here... they are both equally pathetic.

By the way, this really belongs in the off topic forum with my tramp stamp thread...
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Old 12-10-2011, 06:46 PM   #44
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We are really splitting hairs here: 93% of republicans and 92% of democrats and 50% of the Independents in the senate voted yes...

I dont see how you can put a positive spin on your party here... they are both equally pathetic.

By the way, this really belongs in the off topic forum with my tramp stamp thread...
I think we misunderstood each other.

I didn't see that you were condemning both sides until later. I've known a lot of people who would say the thing about 93% of Republicans; while completely ignoring the 92% of Democrats.

If you want to condemn both parties, you'll have no objection from me.
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Old 12-11-2011, 06:16 AM   #45
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Not sure why I waste my time reading some of these posts on this forum, two pages worth over some blog written by Aref Assaf president of American Arab Forum, a Paterson-based think tank specializing in Arab and Muslim affairs. and a bunch of kids trying to talk politics. What does this have to do with "Railroad Photography Forum - Discuss railroad photography techniques, equipment requirements, etc."
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Old 12-11-2011, 02:51 PM   #46
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Not sure why I waste my time reading some of these posts on this forum, two pages worth over some blog written by Aref Assaf president of American Arab Forum, a Paterson-based think tank specializing in Arab and Muslim affairs. and a bunch of kids trying to talk politics. What does this have to do with "Railroad Photography Forum - Discuss railroad photography techniques, equipment requirements, etc."
It was originally a discussion about how this could maybe apply to us being labeled terrorists. And then in blew up into a political discussion.
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Old 12-11-2011, 03:02 PM   #47
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Not sure why I waste my time reading some of these posts on this forum, two pages worth over some blog written by Aref Assaf president of American Arab Forum, a Paterson-based think tank specializing in Arab and Muslim affairs. and a bunch of kids trying to talk politics. What does this have to do with "Railroad Photography Forum - Discuss railroad photography techniques, equipment requirements, etc."
Kids? Really? Scott, Troy, Jim and I (that I know of) appreciate your error.

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Old 12-11-2011, 03:09 PM   #48
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I agree, let's get back to taking railroad pictures...

Image © George W. Hamlin
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Old 12-11-2011, 03:46 PM   #49
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I agree, let's get back to taking railroad pictures...

Image © George W. Hamlin
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I'm glad YOU brought this one up
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Old 12-11-2011, 03:49 PM   #50
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Kids? Really? Scott, Troy, Jim and I (that I know of) appreciate your error.

Not referring to those kids
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