Old 06-14-2010, 04:02 AM   #1
Miketherailfan
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Default Bad cropping... screeners are drivin me NUTS

Tried this one: http://www.railpictures.net/viewreje...&key=665268327

Took it into Photoshop, cropped it, still rejected: http://www.railpictures.net/viewreje...d=824235&key=0

Thoughts?
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Old 06-14-2010, 04:27 AM   #2
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They may be driving you nuts but I think they gave you good advice - the second photo is more appealing to me as I saw no benefit from the "extra" space in the foreground. The second photo is nice but still has a bit of that same "extra".

If you had more to work with up top, you'd be golden, I think. As is, it's not a bad crop and I would hope an appeal would get it in. It's one of those shots that is as good as many, better then some already accepted, yet could possibly have been framed slightly better.

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Old 06-14-2010, 04:35 AM   #3
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Mitch,

I'm not sure how much more I have to crop before the image gets butchered... *sigh*
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Old 06-14-2010, 04:35 AM   #4
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The crop still centers the train somewhat in the bottom of the frame. Additionally, the image is kinda dark.
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Old 06-14-2010, 04:39 AM   #5
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I'm not sure how much more I have to crop before the image gets butchered... *sigh*
What do you mean by butchered? In the dead space, there is really nothing of significance in that area that the viewer of the pic would want to see.
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Old 06-14-2010, 04:41 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Tgranville View Post
What do you mean by butchered?
The crop itself. It's either too much dead space or the image doesn't have enough room to breathe.
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Old 06-14-2010, 04:49 AM   #7
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The colors are awfully subdued and look at the shadows; they're almost falling straight down. Why are you so hung up on this shot anyway? (Aside from being the NS Fs.)
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Old 06-14-2010, 05:03 AM   #8
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The crop itself. It's either too much dead space or the image doesn't have enough room to breathe.
Why not find the happy medium?
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Old 06-14-2010, 05:25 AM   #9
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My take, crop and color.
Other opinions may vary...
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Old 06-14-2010, 06:40 AM   #10
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I think there's too much space in the foreground also. The crop by Dennis is on the money though in my opinion.
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Old 06-14-2010, 07:59 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miketherailfan View Post
Mitch,

I'm not sure how much more I have to crop before the image gets butchered... *sigh*
I think Dennis answered your question! Pop!

/Mitch
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Old 06-14-2010, 09:24 AM   #12
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Agreed.that looks like the way to go.
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Old 06-14-2010, 03:21 PM   #13
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I appreciate the insight guys, and the crop Dennis, but the images still looks.... odd. I mean THAT much cropping makes it look really weird to me. I'm not sure how anyone can think it's a great shot with that much cropping done to it. But I say this as the guy who shot the picture. I guess I don't have an understanding as to why this site has such rigid standards for uberly-cropped photo to look like masterpieces.
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Old 06-14-2010, 03:30 PM   #14
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I prefer Dennis' cropping on the left side and the rejected's cropping on the bottom. Agree with Mike's implicit statement that it doesn't make much difference.

Mike, the original definitely needed foreground cropping because of the shadow at the bottom. So, yes, sometimes the site is rigid, or what I think is more accurate, particular, but on the other hand you definitely needed advice regarding the original submission. Roll with it, accept that RP screening can be helpful, sometimes persnickety.
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Old 06-14-2010, 03:41 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by JRMDC View Post
I prefer Dennis' cropping on the left side and the rejected's cropping on the bottom.
Well, it looks like they do too... http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=328049

I agree, the screeners are persnickety. That's what kinda drove me to the point of insanity, mainly seeing worse images than mine getting in but mine not for some minute detail is distracting.
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Old 06-14-2010, 04:12 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Miketherailfan View Post
I appreciate the insight guys, and the crop Dennis, but the images still looks.... odd. I mean THAT much cropping makes it look really weird to me. I'm not sure how anyone can think it's a great shot with that much cropping done to it. But I say this as the guy who shot the picture. I guess I don't have an understanding as to why this site has such rigid standards for uberly-cropped photo to look like masterpieces.
Instead of complaining about the "rigid standards" which are in your head (show me where there are "standards" on cropping anywhere on the site), I think you need to either learn more about generally accepted photography composition and I don't mean for RP, I mean photography as a whole. You don't seem to grasp the concepts of dead space, which is not something the admin here created, or what makes a photo flow and easy to look at. Let's breakdown the timeline and thought process for the one in this thread.

First, you tried this: http://www.railpictures.net/viewreje...&key=665268327
You felt this was acceptable. My question is why or even better, how?

The first thing that REALLY stands out is the shadow in the foreground. That can be cropped out in literally, two seconds so why leave it in? Is that part of your 'masterpiece'? I see another less intrusive shadow on the bottom right as well which would vanish with a crop getting rid of the other.

You seem to be a fan of allowing breathing room in a photo, as am I, but from looking at your photos, you think the opposite way I do. If you wanted to avoid a tight crop on just the train why not include the tops of the trees and some sky? It was a nice day so you weren't doing it to cut out a cloudy sky. Mitch hit this one on the head. Include the sky and you won't have to worry about "butchering" the shot.

The second crop is definitely better and I see why you cropped to where you did using the grease spots on the right as the bottom of your frame. Looking at it, it makes me want to skip over the subject, the train, to find something more at the bottom of the photo.

I see a lot of threads in here where people are confused about what the screeners are looking for and it confuses me because the frame of the image is sometimes very clear. Look around the edges for things that should be included and things that shouldn't like shadows, wayward branches or other distracting objects. If you get into a situation like this where one edge will be trees, try to find the edge of one of the trees, a difference in the color shades or a branch from another tree sticking into the frame of a different color.

The attached photo makes it easier to see the difference between all the versions. The photo as a whole is the original which I assume is uncropped straight out of the camera. The yellow line indicates where the second version was cropped to. The blue is the final accepted version. Notice how tight it is on the left to the point where the cans are almost cut off. The red is the way I would have suggested with green lines showing why I chose where to crop to. There is enough space around each of the objects where it isn't "butchered". The red arrow on the left points to the branch I would have chosen to cut out.
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Old 06-14-2010, 04:12 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Miketherailfan View Post
Well, it looks like they do too... http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=328049

I agree, the screeners are persnickety. That's what kinda drove me to the point of insanity, mainly seeing worse images than mine getting in but mine not for some minute detail is distracting.
you're taking it way too seriously then.

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Old 06-14-2010, 05:30 PM   #18
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Thanks guys. I'm sorry if I offended some of you, but I just get frustrated about my shots getting rejected and worse ones getting in, as I mentioned before with the rigid standards comment. I don't understand it fully, no big deal. I'm not a Photoshop whiz by any means, so I'll just keep it in mind for future submissions.
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Old 06-14-2010, 05:35 PM   #19
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Mike,

You need to stop looking through the database for images that you think are not as good as yours. It's a waste of your time.

Use the database to look for photos that you admire and wonder, how did he think of that, and then see if you have your own take on that idea.

You will learn the most by finding quality that you personally think is good and being influenced by it.

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Old 06-14-2010, 06:35 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Miketherailfan View Post
I appreciate the insight guys, and the crop Dennis, but the images still looks.... odd. I mean THAT much cropping makes it look really weird to me. I'm not sure how anyone can think it's a great shot with that much cropping done to it. But I say this as the guy who shot the picture. I guess I don't have an understanding as to why this site has such rigid standards for uberly-cropped photo to look like masterpieces.
Mike,

May I suggest suggest studying the "rule-of-thirds." That is what I used in doing my crop of your shot.

Ultimately as an artist, you should do whatever you wish. However, if you desire other people to respond to your art, you first need to do what has proven to work long before RP was ever thought of.

When you master such rules, you then can break them.

You have received excellent advice here, particularly from Andrew and Charles. This FREE advice is golden and is perhaps the greatest advantage of being here. I know my railroad photography has exponentially improved since I joined RP.
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Old 06-14-2010, 07:28 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Blaszczyk (2) View Post
You seem to be a fan of allowing breathing room in a photo, as am I, but from looking at your photos, you think the opposite way I do. If you wanted to avoid a tight crop on just the train why not include the tops of the trees and some sky? It was a nice day so you weren't doing it to cut out a cloudy sky. Mitch hit this one on the head. Include the sky and you won't have to worry about "butchering" the shot.
Agreed. The image could have been much more appealing "opened up," allowing the viewer to see what surroundings this train was traveling through. As it is now, it's simply an elevated wedgie, and perhaps that's why the screener(s) wanted it a little tighter.

Mike, were you not able to go any wider with your lens?
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