Old 02-13-2008, 10:53 PM   #26
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Personally I think a shot here has to be at least RR related and needs one of the following, a train, a track, or something that is RR related. But to me a streak of light without being able to see any part of the train or track is not a rail picture. Be it a good photo or not.

I would llike to see more backlit approval if the photo is good and the same for going away shots. Both of which I have some awesome shots, but don't submit them. Also that would open up a lot of new areas to shoot where the sun would never ever be in a position to have a front lit shot no matter what.

Beyond the standard shots or 3/4 wedgie it's hit or mis what a screener might accept, as you have stated above. I guess if you want somethign fresh and different then you need to go outside the box, or in this case, currents standards or acceptable shots.
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Last edited by socalrailfan; 02-13-2008 at 11:06 PM.
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Old 02-13-2008, 11:07 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdirelan87
A similar guide already exist for technical aspects (i.e., focus, underexposed, etc), I don't understand why there cannot be one for more general aspects.
What do you suggest, a guide that covers everything from how many pixels the train must occupy both laterally and vertically, subject of course to sliding scales for the amount of "day train" or "night/light blur" present? I don't think anything like that is realistic, or necessary.

As I've said so many times before, we have the appeal process in place for instances like this. That guarantees every photo at least two sets of eyes, the original screener and a second review by either myself or Chris Starnes (who are as close to being "on the same page" regarding standards as any two people can be, imho).

You think consistency's an issue with 5 people screening? Try JP.net, where we have 35 screeners and 6 senior screeners doing 2500 photos a day, 5 admins screening appeals, and an average upload to screening time of 3 days.. you'll quickly come to appreciate how well things here really do operate.
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Old 02-13-2008, 11:15 PM   #28
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This I didn't know and is good info. I figured it was sometimes the same screener giving a photo a second thought.

But what about mine and others comments about opening up some areas for submittals? If a shot is backlit and you can still see some detail what's the big deal. IE: this shot that was approved recently, it's definetly not a glint or sunset shot, but it got in and it's even a wedgie to boot.
Image © George W. Hamlin
PhotoID: 221788
Photograph © George W. Hamlin


Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Kilroy
As I've said so many times before, we have the appeal process in place for instances like this. That guarantees every photo at least two sets of eyes, the original screener and a second review by either myself or Chris Starnes (who are as close to being "on the same page" regarding standards as any two people can be, imho).
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Old 02-13-2008, 11:25 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fullreversal

Regarding levelness.. Jim, the lake is level, and they make a significant climb out of the lake. It appears this way due to the trees on the right at a closer distance than all the others around the lake. All was leveled on the tripod, and when shooting at 18mm, you get some barrel distortion too. That, also I cannot fix with my editing program.
Actually, the lake doesn't look level in your shot. If you look at the water line on the right, it's much higher than on the left, and this has nothing to do with the tree line. I recognized the barrel distortion, as it's evident with how the water line has a concave curve to it. If you use a guide line in photoshop, you can rotate the image about 1.1 degrees CW and match up the edges of the water lines on both sides. Now the concave curvature looks more even:
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Old 02-13-2008, 11:37 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Kilroy
What do you suggest, a guide that covers everything from how many pixels the train must occupy both laterally and vertically, subject of course to sliding scales for the amount of "day train" or "night/light blur" present? I don't think anything like that is realistic, or necessary.
Of course I'm not suggesting that defined, because as everyone likes to remind everyone else, photography is not a science.

However, it is very reasonable and relatively easy to universally agree on what kind of concepts are and aren't allowed on the site. To some extend, there already is; 3/4 wedgie going away shots are not acceptable for this site and the rule is enforced.

Why can't a ruling like this be devised to cover other general concepts of shots. For example; shots with signals, shots of railroad related structures, abandoned right of way shots, shots taken from a train, shots where the train is very small. Once there is clear decision one way or another, then standards can be set that each particular shot will be judge off of.

This system already exist, just not clearly defined anywhere; there are known guidelines of what kinds of 3/4 shots are acceptable (good light, no obstructing objects). At the same time, for more artistic shots, the standards are more relaxed (i.e., cloudy day).

Up until this point, all of these shots have sometimes been accepted, sometimes been rejected. Once there is some sort of guide one would expect these types of submissions to go down, or at the very least there would be less threads like this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Kilroy
You think consistency's an issue with 5 people screening? Try JP.net, where we have 35 screeners and 6 senior screeners doing 2500 photos a day, 5 admins screening appeals, and an average upload to screening time of 3 days.. you'll quickly come to appreciate how well things here really do operate.
OK.... so the same problem exist on that site to an even greater degree. Does that mean that we should all just be content that Railpictures is less problematic? I'm just trying to suggest ways to improve the site.

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Old 02-14-2008, 12:05 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdirelan87
However, it is very reasonable and relatively easy to universally agree on what kind of concepts are and aren't allowed on the site. To some extend, there already is; 3/4 wedgie going away shots are not acceptable for this site and the rule is enforced.
This isn't necessarily true. There seems to be exceptions to every rule. Some are wedgie, some aren't.

Image © Firehouse16
PhotoID: 96756
Photograph © Firehouse16

Image © Dave Toussaint
PhotoID: 108809
Photograph © Dave Toussaint

Image © Dave Toussaint
PhotoID: 136330
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Image © Dave Toussaint
PhotoID: 158874
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Image © Dave Toussaint
PhotoID: 173508
Photograph © Dave Toussaint

Image © Dave Toussaint
PhotoID: 179274
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Image © Dave Toussaint
PhotoID: 193924
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Old 02-14-2008, 12:19 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by socalrailfan
Both of which I have some awesome shots, but don't submit them.
If they truly are 'awesome' why don't you submit them? I feel that if the photos really are that good then it would be recognized and accepted. To say they are 'awesome' but you don't attempt to upload them because they won't be accepted voids the idea that they are so good and should be accepted.
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Old 02-14-2008, 12:41 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by socalrailfan
This isn't necessarily true. There seems to be exceptions to every rule. Some are wedgie, some aren't.
Dave,

I wouldn't call those straight up going away 3/4 wedgies, they all have something different about them, aka nice light, good scenery or a very generous angle (i.e., so its almost a side shot).
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Old 02-14-2008, 12:46 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PLEzero
If they truly are 'awesome' why don't you submit them?
I have as noted above. But as far as backlit like the example above by George Hamlin, well I just don't want to waste my time for something that is highly rejected and frowned upon. That's why I'm so shocked by George Hamlins approved photo. I like the photo, but it goes against everything rp.net has preached to us.
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Old 02-14-2008, 02:43 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by socalrailfan
I have as noted above. But as far as backlit like the example above by George Hamlin, well I just don't want to waste my time for something that is highly rejected and frowned upon. That's why I'm so shocked by George Hamlins approved photo. I like the photo, but it goes against everything rp.net has preached to us.
One thing that you have to remember is the general acceptance/ rejection guidelines are guidelines and not rules etched in stone by the finger of God. Theoretically each photo is weighed by it's merits and the possibility of general interest by site viewers (lets face it the hits pay the bills around here).

Ultimately (in the big scope of things) it shouldn't matter if the picture gets accepted or rejected as long as you like it. After all are you taking pictures because you enjoy it and want to share it, or does the number beside your name in the drop down menu on the opening page validate your worth as a photographer.

Yeah, getting a picture on the site is a great way to share that picture with a lot of people, and the feedback from other members and the screeners is a great way to sharpen your skills and improve as a photographer. I've never seen it written anywhere that the rules set forth here are the only rules and that it's not a good picture unless the people here say so. If you aren't taking pictures for your enjoyment and growth as a photographer then what is the reason to take pictures?
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Old 02-14-2008, 03:37 AM   #36
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What frustrates most of us is perceived inconsistency. However, our screeners look at a lot of photos. I think they do pretty well considering they've each screened 30 or 40 thousand photos. I have trouble being consistent from breakfast to lunch. Just ask my kids!
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Old 02-14-2008, 03:40 AM   #37
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I have trouble being consistent from breakfast to lunch. Just ask my kids!
Add a little more fiber to your diet, that should solve your problems.
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Old 02-14-2008, 03:55 AM   #38
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A lot of folks talk about frustration with inconsistency on the part of the screeners. You know how to alleviate the frustration? Just accept that inconsistency is par for the course. Expect it. It's not a knock on the screeners or the standards...it's just the nature of the beast with a subjective hobby.Don't focus on what's in the database or comparing your rejection to someone else's acceptence. Getting frustrated about it gets you no where. Focus on improving yourself regardless of whatever happens here...
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Old 02-14-2008, 04:06 AM   #39
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If a shot doesn't get in on the first try you can always tweak it a little bit and then try it again. Different screeners may see things differently, but more times than not if you address the issues they have it will be a better picture. The next screener that sees it might love it. Obviously there are some fatal errors, but lots of things can be fixed. I think what gets the masses frustrated is when one screener says one thing and after that is fixed there is another thing wrong with it.
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Old 02-14-2008, 04:32 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JBCagle7073
If a shot doesn't get in on the first try you can always tweak it a little bit and then try it again. Different screeners may see things differently, but more times than not if you address the issues they have it will be a better picture. The next screener that sees it might love it. Obviously there are some fatal errors, but lots of things can be fixed. I think what gets the masses frustrated is when one screener says one thing and after that is fixed there is another thing wrong with it.
You can always appeal it. Although many people think appealing is a guaranteed rejection, I've had numerous photos accepted on appeal, or at least get some more direct, helpful information.
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Old 02-14-2008, 04:52 AM   #41
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I forgot to include that option, especially if it's something that's a little grey. If you state your case you usually get pretty good feedback on what their thinking is.
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Old 02-14-2008, 03:34 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by socalrailfan

I would llike to see more backlit approval if the photo is good and the same for going away shots. Also that would open up a lot of new areas to shoot where the sun would never ever be in a position to have a front lit shot no matter what.
I agree with Dave on this 100%. Fortunately for me (and others in the snowbelt), we have a "crutch" to get cloudy day shots accepted. I've had several accepted lately that would NEVER get approved if the sun was shining (dark nose, backlit, whatever). For instance:

Image © Jim Thias
PhotoID: 221827
Photograph © Jim Thias


There is NO day out of the year where sun would be shining on the nose of a train in that exact location without it being hit with the "high sun" rejection. And without snow in this picture, I doubt it would have been accepted.

So, we in the snowbelt have something to replace sunshine with, but what do those in the south and west have where it NEVER snows? Little to NO chance at all of getting a cloudy day shot accepted.
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Old 02-14-2008, 03:39 PM   #43
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So, we in the snowbelt have something to replace sunshine with, but what do those in the south and west have where it NEVER snows? Little to NO chance at all of getting a cloudy day shot accepted.
Moody haze, the snow of the south!
Image © Janusz Mrozek
PhotoID: 184210
Photograph © Janusz Mrozek


Or hide the sky. (Actually, I was surprised this one got in - it was the first sign to me that RP had loosened up a bit on the sunny day wedgie stuff. Today, I wouldn't even bother submitting it.)
Image © Janusz Mrozek
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Old 02-14-2008, 03:40 PM   #44
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A lot of folks talk about frustration with inconsistency on the part of the screeners. You know how to alleviate the frustration? Just accept that inconsistency is par for the course. Expect it. It's not a knock on the screeners or the standards...it's just the nature of the beast with a subjective hobby.Don't focus on what's in the database or comparing your rejection to someone else's acceptence. Getting frustrated about it gets you no where. Focus on improving yourself regardless of whatever happens here...

Well said. The cure for frustration is hit the bricks with your camera and get the next great shot.
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Old 02-17-2008, 08:32 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRMDC
Moody haze, the snow of the south!
Image © Janusz Mrozek
PhotoID: 184210
Photograph © Janusz Mrozek


Or hide the sky. (Actually, I was surprised this one got in - it was the first sign to me that RP had loosened up a bit on the sunny day wedgie stuff. Today, I wouldn't even bother submitting it.)
Image © Janusz Mrozek
PhotoID: 164759
Photograph © Janusz Mrozek
I think its good to see the screening team has loosened the belt abit with overcast shots,i tried my first one today that was taken in overcast conditions and it got accepted,okay the photo itself may not mean alot to many but to myself its a photo i like but taken at a location where the sun when sunny you dont get great shots plus the engines themself in the photo are some of the best to catch in Australia.
Image © Trevor Harris
PhotoID: 223413
Photograph © Trevor Harris

Just a matter of looking on Jetphotos there are plenty taken in rain/overcast weather that get accepted,some might not be the best but you can get some very interesting shots in the conditions and if uploaders see these type of overcast photos getting accepted more than rejected than expect some nice interesting shots of this type.

I think the most frustrating thing about uploading is getting a rejection, fixing it up based on what the rejection reason is than uploading again and getting a totally different rejection reason even though you include a comment in the comment to screeners box saying you fixed up the reason based on first rejection,okay it maybe different views from screeners but to the uploader its a sign of inconsistency.

Also the backlit/nose light rejection as stated by some already,if those reasons werent as harsh than maybe some more exciting shots would be accepted,it can be a hard task trying to get good sunlight on the nose plus sunlight along the side of the train aswell.

But it seems like a forward step for the site,hopefully it continues.
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