Actually, the issue isn't trespassing per se so much as the apparent inability of a train crew to understand the difference between railroad and public property. I had a CSX crew call the cops to complain about me today while I was shooting photos from a public road. At no point did I set foot off the road, but that apparently didn't register with the guys in the engine. I have to say, the cops in this case were very pleasant. They seemed to think that the CSX folks were being stupid, and joked about having to run my ID to find out if I was a terrorist, then told me to enjoy my photos.
So, what makes a train crew call the cops on someone with a camera standing on public property?
Jon
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You know what, Jon? After seeing and experiencing this sort of thing for over 30 years as a fan AND somewhat from the other side, SOMETIMES [not always] it just boils down to this: some people can't stand to see someone actually enjoying life, or enjoying having a passion for a hobby or pastime. They're not happy at the moment, and by gosh you shouldn't be either!
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BarrySr
KE5YYR
"I dug 'dem boats when diggin' em wasn't cool"
"Why are the crazy people so enamorate of all things EMD?" [Holloran Grade]
You know what, Jon? After seeing and experiencing this sort of thing for over 30 years as a fan AND somewhat from the other side, SOMETIMES [not always] it just boils down to this: some people can't stand to see someone actually enjoying life, or enjoying having a passion for a hobby or pastime. They're not happy at the moment, and by gosh you shouldn't be either!
I couldn't agree with you more. It seems like some people in the industry just can't stand that some people enjoy railroads as a hobby. I can understand to some extent, after all not everybody like having their picture taken, but some of the stuff I have seen is just uncalled for.
I came to this conclusion a few years ago when I got particularly raw dealed at the local Amtrak station. My intentions where very clear: I had a huge camera on an even larger tripod, I walked clearly down the middle of the platform, waved at the crew sitting in the engine and set up for my shot. At no point did I ever leave the platform or even get close to the yellow line. That didn't stop them from calling the dispatcher over the radio to get the police, never even bothering to ask me what I was doing.
In the 1980's I had a situation where, after a FRA inspectors had been in the area posing as railfans, I was harassed in the Buffalo area one weekend. Evidently, the crews were miffed (politely phrased) and were calling the Conrail Police at anyone with cameras. After the third meeting with the same officer, he explained that the inspectors had been taking pictures of employees allegedly catching them breaking rules. I had heard of situations like this subsequently where authorities pose as railfans, attempting to conduct surveillances of employees. Here in the frozen North even a Road Master I knew, used his personal vehicle to conduct speed traps where railfans gathered.
Most employees recognize the regulars by sight, as they tend to have regulars spots and times of being trackside. Having worked for the railways, I found myself more concerned of persons in the desolate spots or switchstands than the ones who hung out at known gathering spots.
That is a true statement about some FRA inspectors. Now, to the rest of this, I think that Class II and Class III carrier employees will be lest apt to call the authorities on railfans than the Class I employees. I would never blow in a fan unless they were trespassing (even with this, I would kindly ask them to leave or, check in at the office first, depends on their attitude) or, doing something very dangerous close to the property line. However, with the TSA now conducting their own unannounced security inspections on railroad security measures, the law is that if we (railroaders) don't know who(m) you are, we are to question you even if you don't look suspicious! This only applies to railroad property of course. Standing on a public road to take pictures? That is silly to call the cops!
Last edited by TheRoadForeman; 04-22-2009 at 01:42 PM.
Reason: Added a sentance
Actually, the issue isn't trespassing per se so much as the apparent inability of a train crew to understand the difference between railroad and public property. I had a CSX crew call the cops to complain about me today while I was shooting photos from a public road. At no point did I set foot off the road, but that apparently didn't register with the guys in the engine. I have to say, the cops in this case were very pleasant. They seemed to think that the CSX folks were being stupid, and joked about having to run my ID to find out if I was a terrorist, then told me to enjoy my photos.
So, what makes a train crew call the cops on someone with a camera standing on public property?
Jon
You're taking pics of CSX trains in the wrong part of the country. Must be an east coast thing, but the CSX crews around my area seem pretty nice...and tolerable. I often get a friendly honk or a wave (not the cheesy foamer wave, but rather just a "what's up" kind of wave).
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Rhymes with slice, rice and mice, and probably should be spelled like "Tice."
You're taking pics of CSX trains in the wrong part of the country. Must be an east coast thing, but the CSX crews around my area seem pretty nice...and tolerable. I often get a friendly honk or a wave (not the cheesy foamer wave, but rather just a "what's up" kind of wave).
Same thing in Ohio, Jim. The majority of CSX crews around here (and Norfolk Southern too) don't seem to have a problem with railfans.
I have been waved at by the crews many, many times. Recently, after I shot a CSX train I looked up toward the cab as I waved to the crew and much to my amusement saw the conductor standing in his window photographing me!
Several times I have heard a particular crew member say "Good Morning" to one of the old timer regulars who railfans at one of my favorite spots.
At least in your situation the police understood you were within your rights and so no harm, no foul.
It is part of most railroads' rules that they must report suspicious individuals, anyone who's trespassing, etc. Class one guys tend to give a little more leeway on the latter when you're out in the middle of nowhere, but when you start getting into a terminal/yard area, be damn sure you know right where the property lines are. Yes, there are some overzealous guys out there, but they're the minority, and as has been said, they're usually either having a bad day or, in some cases, closet buffs themselves and "in denial". To elaborate on that last bit, a guy I know out here is a buff and a conductor, and one trip was with an engineer who called the cops on every railfan he saw, whether they were trespassing or not (he even went so far as to scowl at, followed by calling the cops on a father holding his toddler son on his shoulders as they waved to them from a public parking lot). Said engineer later told the conductor he enjoyed reading up on railroad's histories, looking at older photos of the railroads, unusual locomotives/paint schemes...basically admitting that he himself was a buff.
Regarding the law enforcement end of it, all I can say is just be polite and courteous and don't lie to them. They get the opposite treatment all day long, so if you respect them, they'll gladly do the same for you (and after encountering dozens of law enforcement officials, I can honestly say I've never had a problem - the worse scenario is they request I move somewhere else, which I do). It's when you start getting hostile and screaming "civil rights" right off the bat that you're starting to dig your own grave - remember, these guys do it for a living, whereas we only have the pleasure of an occasional encounter.
You're taking pics of CSX trains in the wrong part of the country. Must be an east coast thing, but the CSX crews around my area seem pretty nice...and tolerable. I often get a friendly honk or a wave (not the cheesy foamer wave, but rather just a "what's up" kind of wave).
I had a roadswitchers hogger yell "no photo's" while I was standing on a public road and then flip me the bird a week or so ago.
Few weeks ago, I had a conductor stop for a very brief and very pleasant chat while he waited for the head end of his train to pick him up a while back. He joked about the 6000' lift they just made (to their 4500' train)... then I made a comment about the underabundance of power they had. He laughed and mentioned what a great guy the CEO was
Some people are just plain nice, others are dicks. Sometimes you get an average person on a bad day. At least the cop was a good sport.
Here is one for you A UP crew that calls in all fans on or off the property, Their well known for calling in. One day, DS Buzz, Yes there is surveyors at MP --- and there in on the road but in the fence line. The UP makes you have a UP guy and radio at $140. A hour watch your backs if working in the fence line, It's the state ROW but Railroad property to the fence line. So standing at the crossing wont save you if they push come to shove in court
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Richard Scott Marsh I go by Scott long story
For those who work the head ends, how many times have you debated whether the person trackside is a foamer waving or a trying to stop the train for a hazard ahead?
In the UCOR, the Canadian Operating Rules (at least in my old copy), it specifically defined that when someone is vigorous waving at the train, operating crew interpret it as a warning and to slow or stop the train.
For those who work the head ends, how many times have you debated whether the person trackside is a foamer waving or a trying to stop the train for a hazard ahead?
In the UCOR, the Canadian Operating Rules (at least in my old copy), it specifically defined that when someone is vigorous waving at the train, operating crew interpret it as a warning and to slow or stop the train.
You grossly misinterpret the rule...... If someone is waving with a smile on their face, nothing is wrong. If someone is waving both hands in a panic while screaming at you, something is wrong.
You grossly misinterpret the rule...... If someone is waving with a smile on their face, nothing is wrong. If someone is waving both hands in a panic while screaming at you, something is wrong.
How close do you have to be to see a smile on their face? How close do you have to be to hear them screaming in panic? I've seen some foamers who wave at you as if they're the Starters at the Indie 500 , to the point where authorities were summoned to educate one idiot. I realize that you have to size up the situation as you encounter them. Remember the rules are made to protect the railroads, should there be an incident the company is protected not the employee.
I'm confused (joking), but what kind of wave do I have... I hold the camera up, focusing in on the train as it approaches... taking several shots, after the train gets too close for a shot, I raise my left hand and hold it steady while maintaining my camera in my right hand. Sure I may look like an idiot standing there next to the tracks, but atleast I don't have the "foamer wave". God that cracked me up.
You grossly misinterpret the rule...... If someone is waving with a smile on their face, nothing is wrong. If someone is waving both hands in a panic while screaming at you, something is wrong.
The panic, something-is-wrong wave takes place around 1:53 in this video.
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Rhymes with slice, rice and mice, and probably should be spelled like "Tice."
Trespassing redux
"I dug 'dem boats when diggin' em wasn't cool" 
Must be an east coast thing, but the CSX crews around my area seem pretty nice...and tolerable. I often get a friendly honk or a wave (not the cheesy foamer wave, but rather just a "what's up" kind of wave).
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