Old 03-30-2008, 11:35 PM   #1
matth
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Angry C39-8 Frustration

I recently caught a westbound NS train with a rare C39-8 in the lead. I set up for a tight telephoto shot along a curve. I nailed the telephoto shot and it was accepted by the screeners.

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphot...=229385&nseq=1


Once I saw what the lead engine was, I hurriedly went to semi-wide angle mode and shot a 3/4 view of the train.

http://www.railpictures.net/viewreje...&key=665651974

The shot turned out well (in my opinion), but was rejected for being "too similar" to the telephoto shot. I know it was the same train/engine, but how in the world are the two shots "too similar" when they are from 2 different vantage points? In the accepted shot all you can see is the C39's nose and the high cubes behind the power rolling thru the curve.

I wouldn't have even submitted the 3/4 view shot if it wasn't of a rare C39-8. There have only been 3 other NS C39-8 shots taken in 2008 that have made it onto the website, in addition to mine. I'm sorry but this just reeks of mindless rigidity.

I have already received my "official" appeal rejection from the Holy See of rp.net. I don't expect that to change. I just wanted to vent my frustration and see what others think about this situation.
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Old 03-31-2008, 12:15 AM   #2
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Either way, nice shots, Matthew. But, you're right, according to the Submission Guidelines:
Quote:
Please avoid similar angles of the same train from the same location. Generally one shot is enough of a train at a particular location. If you must photograph it again, please attempt to find another location which offers a different view of the train
Now, this has been argued before about a telephoto vs. wider-angle, and it all just depends. To me, I'm not a fan of a 'mash and then a wider angle shot. Even with yours being a 'rare' unit (there's still 255 photos in the database), it comes down to picking the one you like best and submitting it.

Others will disagree, but that's just how I view it. Either way, it doesn't take away that they're both solid shots. Next time though, just stagger your uploads to different days...
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Old 03-31-2008, 12:20 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matth
I'm sorry but this just reeks of mindless rigidity.

I have already received my "official" appeal rejection from the Holy See of rp.net. I don't expect that to change. I just wanted to vent my frustration and see what others think about this situation.
One could as easily argue that your attitude is the one of "mindless rigidity," insisting that you should be allowed to have two shots from the same location, second apart, or insisting that a certain number of shots of a certain engine class on a certain railroad during a certain 3 month period should be accepted with relaxed standards.

It's not your site, the rules are not what you would like, their priorities are different from yours, let it go.
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Old 03-31-2008, 12:44 AM   #4
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It is still best not to try for the most shots of the train but one thats the best for that spot. You would most likely have to walk and reset up to make a new shot work well , maybe its a foot maybe 40'.

But just zooming back gets you a 2 shot and not the best ? most likely. I would of taken a 2 shot to if i had one come by me, and drive like hell down the road, set up a new one?
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Old 03-31-2008, 12:50 AM   #5
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Matthew,

Both are good shots but we do not need them one right behind another in the database. Hold on to it for a rainy day in a few weeks and then submit again if you want. We have nothing against accepting telephoto/wide combos, especially of unique material, but we do not want to over-saturate things on a timing standpoint either.
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Old 03-31-2008, 12:56 AM   #6
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It's a moot point now, but I prefer the first/accepted shot.

Nice catch.
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Old 03-31-2008, 02:39 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Starnes
Matthew,

Both are good shots but we do not need them one right behind another in the database. Hold on to it for a rainy day in a few weeks and then submit again if you want. We have nothing against accepting telephoto/wide combos, especially of unique material, but we do not want to over-saturate things on a timing standpoint either.
Chris: Sounds like a plan. I don't see how it makes a difference if both photos make it into the database eventually anyway, but if that's how you want it to work then that's what I'll do. I thought the situation was hopeless. I just wanted to share a decent side shot of a relatively clean C39 with other NS fans.
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Old 03-31-2008, 02:51 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Starnes
Matthew,

Both are good shots but we do not need them one right behind another in the database. Hold on to it for a rainy day in a few weeks and then submit again if you want. We have nothing against accepting telephoto/wide combos, especially of unique material, but we do not want to over-saturate things on a timing standpoint either.
Hold on a second wow! I also thought that the method of waiting a few weeks then submitting a similar shot was a way of 'beating the system.' Are you saying that this practice is acceptable?
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Old 03-31-2008, 03:22 AM   #9
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John,

As with most rejection reasons we use here we have to be reasonable about things. I don't believe it is reasonable or practical to always limit a photographer to one shot per location but on the other hand it is within reason to ask that a decent amount of time elapses before adding the additional "different" shots to the database. The big key here is that images shot at a single location are different in some way whether it be angle, composition, motive, etc.

This shouldn't be mistaken as a change in policy as we are still, as we have in the past, not allowing very similar shots in the database even if a few days or weeks pass between photo submissions. The issue that really gets under our skin more is someone fishing for a different screener days or weeks after a rejection hoping to get one accepted (which happens often).
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Old 03-31-2008, 03:25 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdirelan87
Hold on a second wow! I also thought that the method of waiting a few weeks then submitting a similar shot was a way of 'beating the system.' Are you saying that this practice is acceptable?




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Old 03-31-2008, 03:33 AM   #11
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Good one Loyd, you have those in the pantry waiting for this moment?
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Old 03-31-2008, 03:34 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matth
The shot turned out well (in my opinion), but was rejected for being "too similar" to the telephoto shot. I know it was the same train/engine, but how in the world are the two shots "too similar" when they are from 2 different vantage points?
They're not from different vantage point. It's the same spot, just different lens.
Quote:
Originally Posted by matth
I wouldn't have even submitted the 3/4 view shot if it wasn't of a rare C39-8. There have only been 3 other NS C39-8 shots taken in 2008 that have made it onto the website, in addition to mine. I'm sorry but this just reeks of mindless rigidity.
When you were checking the web site for shots of C39-8s, did you check to see how many shots there were of this engine? They're six, aside from yours.

I think you got the better photo in, FWIW.


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Old 03-31-2008, 03:08 PM   #13
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I think, pardon the pun, that we've beaten this horse to death.
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Old 04-08-2008, 11:02 PM   #14
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Way to sneek your previously rejected photo past the screeners!
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Old 04-09-2008, 12:51 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike B.
Way to sneek your previously rejected photo past the screeners!
He was told by Chris S. up there to hold onto it, and resubmit it later on down the road.. I can't see how that's sneeking anything past anyone..

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Old 04-09-2008, 01:22 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbassloyd
He was told by Chris S. up there to hold onto it, and resubmit it later on down the road.. I can't see how that's sneeking anything past anyone..

Loyd L.
Oops, my mistake. However, submitting two shots from the same location of the same train is still pretty tasteless IMO regardless of how different the view is.
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Old 04-09-2008, 02:04 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Starnes
J

This shouldn't be mistaken as a change in policy as we are still, as we have in the past, not allowing very similar shots in the database even if a few days or weeks pass between photo submissions. The issue that really gets under our skin more is someone fishing for a different screener days or weeks after a rejection hoping to get one accepted (which happens often).
Would this be considered a big "OOPS!" then?

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Old 04-09-2008, 02:30 PM   #18
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Jim,

Thanks for pointing that error out. I'll remove the duplicate and contact the photographer apologizing for our accepting both images.
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Old 04-09-2008, 03:04 PM   #19
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Old 04-09-2008, 10:11 PM   #20
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Default Tasteless?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike B.
Oops, my mistake. However, submitting two shots from the same location of the same train is still pretty tasteless IMO regardless of how different the view is.
How can submitting 2 decents shots from different angles of a rare unit just recently placed back in service be considered "tasteless"? I actually took 4 different shots of the train at that location, but only submitted the 2 best and made d@%# sure that they were from different angles. I thought the shots were news worthy, that's why I submitted them. I was trying to share, not screw someone over. I read the guidelines and thought that I was meeting them. If I had done the same thing with a run of the mill wide cab Dash 9, then I should have gotten the second shot rejected. In this case context is everything!

If the 2 shots are rp.net quality material then what is the big deal? What's next: you can't ever submit a second shot of a different train from any location/angle that you previously used? That's where all this could lead...
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Old 04-09-2008, 10:27 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matth
How can submitting 2 decents shots from different angles of a rare unit just recently placed back in service be considered "tasteless"? I actually took 4 different shots of the train at that location, but only submitted the 2 best and made d@%# sure that they were from different angles. I thought the shots were news worthy, that's why I submitted them. I was trying to share, not screw someone over. I read the guidelines and thought that I was meeting them. If I had done the same thing with a run of the mill wide cab Dash 9, then I should have gotten the second shot rejected. In this case context is everything!
Context is nothing. Bottom line, you posted two shots that are basically the same, one just zoomed in further. You can clearly see that they were both taken from the same location and they both convey the same point. There is no need to have both of them here when one does just as good of a job at conveying the scene as the other.
Even if this did qualify as 'news photos', it would be a bit of a stretch. These engines have been in service since on the same railroad since they were built. The engines coming back into service after spending time in storage isn't that big of deal. It happens all the time on every Class I, it's called a fluctuation in traffic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by matth
If the 2 shots are rp.net quality material then what is the big deal? What's next: you can't ever submit a second shot of a different train from any location/angle that you previously used? That's where all this could lead...
Location/angle are two different things, which is it? Ideally, I would like to see people unable to submit shots from the same angle in the same spot. However, banning multiple shots from a location is a bit drastic since in a lot of places there are a number of shots to get from the same location.
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