Old 06-04-2008, 02:07 AM   #1
KevinM
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Angry If I can't get these in....

Folks,

I'm beside myself...

Here are two of my favorite shots ever....no kidding. I raced all the way from another photo shoot in Kempton, PA to catch the ONLY train that Strasburg runs all week with decent light.

First shot: Horizon unlevel.

http://www.railpictures.net/viewreje...d=532142&key=0

In this case, the train is coming at me at a 45 degree angle and coming up a grade (I'm shooting downhill). If I alter this too much, some of the objects in it are going to look very strange.

Second shot: Foreground clutter

http://www.railpictures.net/viewreje...d=532152&key=0

I'm assuming they're referring to the little wistle post near the pilot. Does that really ruin the shot? I have other frames of this scene, but I really liked this angle best.

What say ye? How can I fix the first? Is the second one worth an appeal?
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Old 06-04-2008, 02:16 AM   #2
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Just level the first photo.

The second photo you cant do nothing about.
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Old 06-04-2008, 02:22 AM   #3
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Hey NSFan,

I was kinda looking for some suggestions as to HOW to level it. I'm not sure which way to go or how much.

Thx,
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Old 06-04-2008, 02:26 AM   #4
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Kevin,

On the first shot (nice shot btw) I'd go a degree or so CCW.
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Old 06-04-2008, 02:57 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cassfan3
Kevin,

On the first shot (nice shot btw) I'd go a degree or so CCW.
I don't claim to be right but as a second opinion, I think less, a half degree, maybe. It's not off by much, to my eye.
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Old 06-04-2008, 03:16 AM   #6
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I would agree with the 1/2 degree CCW rotation.

You are in good shape as you will have to re-crop slightly after rotating and you have plenty of room around the edges so it will not make the shot too tight.

Try the rotation and I will bet it will get in. As said there isn't much you can do about the second shot for this site...

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Old 06-04-2008, 03:29 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinM
Second shot: Foreground clutter

http://www.railpictures.net/viewreje...d=532152&key=0

I'm assuming they're referring to the little wistle post near the pilot. Does that really ruin the shot? I have other frames of this scene, but I really liked this angle best.
Didn't you fire off a shot or two before it got to the obstructing object? Didn't you see that when you were composing the shot? Just another reason to fire off a few in a row...just in case.
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Old 06-04-2008, 03:30 AM   #8
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I'd go 1/2 a degree ccw and then maybe a 1/2 degree cw.

It looks fine to me - why the screeners are so adimit about a photo that is a 1/2 a degree off is quite frustrating - especially when many of us have no idea which way it's off.

The verticals of the windows of both the engine cab and passenger cars seem to indicate a level photo.


As for foreground clutter - well, it's true. What's confusing you so much, I would guess, is that this little issue often gets overlooked and there are several similar that are in the database. Forget what you may have seen IN the database and look at the image on it's own.

Both very nice takes on Strasburg, BTW.

/Mitch
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Old 06-04-2008, 03:52 AM   #9
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I'm voting for the 1/2 CCW on #1. I had to strain to see it though.

For #2, I'm siding with Jim. You could have easily had the same composition if you would have fired a second of 2 earlier and not have had the obstuction. Not to say the whistle post shouldn't be in the shot. As Mitch said, we have all seen other shots in the DB with the same 'amount' of obstruction, and then superb compostions with even more obstruction, but the compostion out-weighs the obstruction. I'm betting if the post would have been even toward the back of the loco more, we may have seen this one in the DB.
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Old 06-04-2008, 04:04 AM   #10
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Thanks for the inputs guys!

On the first shot, I will try a 1/2 deg CCW rotation and see if that does it. If not, I will appeal. I don't get may pretty shots. It would be a shame to lose this one.

Jim, on the second shot, I did fire off quite a few frames before the train reached that whistle post. Here's the problem... There was a white (and I mean 100 Watt White) barn in the background in the earlier frames that will look overexposed....sure as shootin'. In the shot I submitted, the train is covering that barn. As for the other clutter along the tracks, I swear the Red Caboose Motel people put that stuff there to discourage photography. Hey, at least they didn't have their cheap imitations of the Burmashave signs up....those were a scar on the landscape IMHO.

I've been ODing on train photography for the past 5 days. I need to put it aside. I took it up to relieve stress, but lately, it has been having the opposite effect.
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Old 06-04-2008, 04:11 AM   #11
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I've got to go against the grain here.. 1 degree CCW levels the grain solos in the far background. I come from a farming family, and nobody builds aluminum silos unlevel.

Lovely shot, and I hope to see it in the database soon!

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Old 06-04-2008, 04:14 AM   #12
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I'm gonna disagree and say you should try for a 359.5 degree rotation clockwise.

yuk, yuk, yuk.
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Old 06-04-2008, 07:22 AM   #13
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I loaded your first shot in to Photoshop CS3 and used the ruler tool to create a vertical line. The silos, and the vertical lines of the locomotive (cab door, stack, etc.) all line up perfectly with the ruler tool.

I'd appeal and point this out.
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Old 06-04-2008, 01:32 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinM
Jim, on the second shot, I did fire off quite a few frames before the train reached that whistle post. Here's the problem... There was a white (and I mean 100 Watt White) barn in the background in the earlier frames that will look overexposed....sure as shootin'. In the shot I submitted, the train is covering that barn.
Don't let a blown out barn in the background discourage you...can CAN fix that. There are many tricks to "tone down" blown out whites from buildings. If you need help, let me know. It's a nice shot and I think the farm in the background adds a nice touch. My first thought was "why didn't he get more of it in the shot?" Now I know, but I'm pretty sure that if you want to include that blown out barn, it can fixed from looking too blown out.




Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbassloyd
I've got to go against the grain here.. 1 degree CCW levels the grain solos in the far background. I come from a farming family, and nobody builds aluminum silos unlevel.
I agree with Loyd. The entire image feels like it's rotated to the right just a tad. I think I'm seeing the same thing the screener saw.

Kevin, there's no reason to think you can't get that shot in the database. It's a simple fix and it should be good to go.
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Old 06-05-2008, 12:13 AM   #15
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I agree with everything everyone said above me.


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Old 06-05-2008, 01:58 AM   #16
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Cool Level or not to level.....

The first image is VERY nice. The fascinating thing about the level horizon issue is when I first looked at the picture it screamed to be rotated. Then I started arguing with myself which way. Then I snapped a grid on it and it is pretty level as is, depending a bit on what you compare the grid to. There is something in the composition that confuses the brain. I did find that cropping the image a big tighter eliminated or minimized the problem.

The second image is very nice. But for a basic wedgie to work, even in such lovely light, it has to be just about perfect. And the obstructing sign does it in.
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Old 06-05-2008, 01:59 AM   #17
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Joe, I have a smiley for you...








Here's the shot with 1 degree CCW rotation. It just "feels" correct to my eyes now.
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Old 06-05-2008, 03:03 AM   #18
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Thumbs up

And now, as they say....the rest of the story....

I read all of your comments on these two shots last night and elected to sleep on it. I was pretty convinced that a slight CCW rotation on the first shot would do the trick. Then, I saw Steve's notes about putting a grid to it and finding it already pretty level....so I tried the same thing and decided to appeal.

Well, the appeal was rejected but the Screener did indicate that a slight CCW rotation would fix it for him. So I went 1 degree and that did the trick.

Image © Kevin Madore
PhotoID: 238169
Photograph © Kevin Madore


I didn't want to give up on the second shot. This was actually a re-shoot of a pic that I got several years ago. I loved the original....a sunset shot of 475....but the image was a bit dark...not good enough in my estimation for RP. As mentioned, I had several frames of this scene. I backed up one frame....just enough to get the whistle post out in front of the loco....and still keep that nice farm in the scene. I though they still might not like it, but the scene was pretty enough that I had to try.

Image © Kevin Madore
PhotoID: 238173
Photograph © Kevin Madore


Part of the reason these shots had some rookie imperfections was that I was really shooting on the run. With tourist railways running pretty much 11AM - 5PM, getting lighting like this is nearly impossible. The SRR runs this Wine and Cheese train at 6PM only in the spring and only on Saturday. As noted in my first post, I left Kempton at 4:45 PM and ran like a dog for Strasburg, arriving in the yard literally in time to get a going away shot of the train headed east. I raced to the cemetary at Carpenters and got there just in time to get 475 going downhill tender first. That's also a gorgeous shot, but I know they don't like going away stuff here. I waited at the cemetary for the return trip seen in the first photo, then drove at speed limit to the Red Caboose to get the Fairview shot. Later, I got water plug and yard shots, all with great light.

That 50 minute rat-race made my whole trip to PA last weekend worth every dime. I still haven't dug into the Kempton and W&W shots, but I knew lots of other troops from here were already posting those.

Anyway, sorry for the long-winded post. Thanks again for the comments and advice. I have learned so much here in the past few months and I am astounded at the difference it is making in my pictures.
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Old 06-05-2008, 04:08 AM   #19
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The second one makes me smile. Good job, Kevin.
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Old 06-05-2008, 07:00 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimThias
The second one makes me smile. Good job, Kevin.
Your avatar is making me laugh!
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Old 06-05-2008, 07:07 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EMTRailfan
Your avatar is making me laugh!
OK - I wasn't seeing things - I called TBS and described your avitar and they agreed - very funny, Jim.

Where do you get all those smileys?
Did you click on a pop up add and buy them?!?


/Mitch
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Old 06-05-2008, 10:05 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mgoldman
OK - I wasn't seeing things - I called TBS and described your avitar and they agreed - very funny, Jim.


Quote:
Where do you get all those smileys?
Did you click on a pop up add and buy them?!?
Look at the URL of the image you'll find the goldmine. Oh no, my secret is out! haha
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