Old 10-01-2009, 07:27 AM   #101
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Sorry, guys, but I don't see the apples to apples comparison between a shot which was clearly taken from a safe distance with a remote release (also specified in the comments) and the other referenced shots where it appeared the photographer was actually kneeling underneath derailed equipment.

We reject numerous shots every single day for PEQ which were clearly shot while trespassing, many from positions I would consider unsafe (such as the "camera on the railhead with the reflection of the approaching train" shots that seem to be all the rage lately).

Many of these are clear cut cases, some are not.

I screened Travis' shot, and assumed the camera was positioned either at a grade crossing, or pedestrian crossing. I didn't notice the crossbucks in the background initially, but given that Travis has now explained the situation further, their presence wouldn't change my decision at this point.

He had permission from a BNSF employee to be where he was (we could go around in circles on whether this specific employee had 'authority' to grant that permission forever), and more importantly, wasn't in a position of any danger to himself, others, or the train.

I've watched plenty of moron railfans do REALLY stupid things to try to get "that shot," including running across the tracks directly in front of a train, being on a bridge as a train is approaching then running off, kneeling on the tracks, laying on the tracks, climbing up signal masts, etc. etc. etc.

That is the kind of behavior we are always trying to discourage.

And lastly... as far as the argument that this sort of shot could lead someone else to go out and try it without a cable release and get hurt.. well, you can't fix stupid. If some idiot decides to go out and lay in the middle of the tracks to try to replicate this shot, he deserves whatever happens to him, as far as I'm concerned.
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Old 10-01-2009, 06:08 PM   #102
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-admin rant-
I agree wholeheartedly, now let's lock this thing down and get it over with.
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Old 10-01-2009, 06:41 PM   #103
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Why does the thread need to be locked? It's been a civilized discussion this far and if the folks want to keep it alive, they should be able to.

(me trying to be serious)
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Old 10-01-2009, 07:08 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by Noct Foamer View Post
Another would be to mount camera on a monopod and stick it up from below a trestle between the ties.
Still trespassing. You've put something on their property.

Here's the best way:

DON'T DO IT.
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Old 10-01-2009, 07:34 PM   #105
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Originally Posted by Chris Kilroy View Post
And lastly... as far as the argument that this sort of shot could lead someone else to go out and try it without a cable release and get hurt.. well, you can't fix stupid. If some idiot decides to go out and lay in the middle of the tracks to try to replicate this shot, he deserves whatever happens to him, as far as I'm concerned.
He shoots, he SCOOOOOOOOOOOORES......



Quote:
Originally Posted by Noct Foamer
Another would be to mount camera on a monopod and stick it up from below a trestle between the ties.
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Originally Posted by stevenmwelch View Post
Still trespassing. You've put something on their property.

Here's the best way:

DON'T DO IT.
Is it trespassing even if it's not actually touching any of the railroad property, and just occupying airspace in the gap between the ties?
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Old 10-01-2009, 08:13 PM   #106
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I don't place blame with the screeners here for accepting it, knowing the circumstances of the shot as they saw it - I believe uploading the shot was solely Travis' decision to make, and from the sounds of it, he did discuss the subject in depth with the employee in question he was with and still received the okay to upload. I am still not sure I would have uploaded it were I in his shoes, however...perhaps obscuring the details a little bit more, or waiting some time before posting it, but this is Travis' decision. This thread proves how controversial the subject is, and honestly, both sides have a leg to stand on, so I'm not going to pick sides...

Yes, we all trespass, though there are ranges - pulling off the road onto railroad property just enough so you're not interfering with traffic versus standing in the gauge when a train is coming at you or wandering into the middle of an active yard are two different things in my book, even if they are both "trespassing." Just exercise common sense, be discrete, and don't do anything stupid that will put you and/or an employee's well-being in jeopardy. In all honesty, I find that a lot of the best shots out there are taken from public property anyhow.

Now, honestly, I don't think it is a bad thing to have a basic understanding of some of the railroad rules out there...there are plenty of internet sources to learn from, and if it can help save a guy's job, so much the better. Sure, it may have been their own fault for doing something to get themselves in trouble, but I still don't find that makes it okay for me to post a shot that will get a guy fired and prevent him from putting food on the table for his family just so I could have one more shot on Railpictures...if you want to play hard-ass, sure, it's his own damn fault, but I like to be a bit more respectful of these guys (and as a result, I am on particularly good terms with many railroad professionals [I'm not just talking T&E guys either] and get quite a bit of access to things I wouldn't otherwise). Simply put, respect them, and they'll respect you...or be indifferent and say tough s**t, and they'll do the same after they call you in for trespassing next time they see you trackside...but, I know I'm preaching to a brick wall here, so I'll quit while I am still ahead.
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Old 10-01-2009, 09:57 PM   #107
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Interesting thread......

I would agree with the opinion that there are probably none among us who can say with certainty that they always knew the ownership of the patch of ground on which they were standing when they took that superlative shot...or that they always had permission from the owner to be there. I maintain that is it is practically impossible to pursue this hobby without crossing the wrong line at some point, whether deliberately or inadvertently. When this happens, the primary risk is to the individual him/herself, although there is the possible collateral damage to the hobby itself if enough people engage in egregious violations.

Personally, I'm far more concerned about photographers who engage in activities that endanger the general public....such as solo pacing in automobiles. As I scan the threads here, the sense I get is that the guy who has one foot on railroad property is to be vilified, but the guy who brags about driving at "track speed" with his knees should looked upon as a sort of "top gun." Neither activity is a good idea, but given the risk that the latter poses to one's fellow human beings, the reactions that I read on the board here are the reverse of what I would expect.

Just my $.02.
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Old 10-01-2009, 10:19 PM   #108
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Quite honestly, anyone dumb enough to want to try the "train running over camera" shot literally doesn't need to see this shot for an inspiration. I've seen similar photos published in magazines in the past, and a search on Youtube brings up dozens upon dozens of videos displaying the same effect.

So was the shot a smart one? Maybe not. But as Travis said before, it's not like RP is baby sitting your kids. There are plenty of more dangerous/illegal photos on here.
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Old 10-01-2009, 11:27 PM   #109
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I am late coming into this but, a page or two back with the one person talking about the shots not being accepted. Please show me where it states that train shots must be taken a certain way. I am missing that page in my camera manual, and see it refereed to on here a lot. I thought the whole idea of taking pictures was to record and image of what that photographer thought was interesting, am I correct? I am not saying that RP needs to accept these shots, but where do you get off saying that they are "No good"? They may not look good to you but it does not mean someone else will like not like it. The picture may be not the material that RP wishes to post on THEIR site, which is understandable as it is their site,but does not mean the picture(s) are not good at all. I am by no means trying to start another pissing match here, just pointing it out.

As for the shot, just another thing for the Homeland Security freaks to see and giving them more ammo to institute more rules/laws on photographing trains. You need to put yourself in their shoes for a second. They are not going to look at the whole picture, they are going to look at some person placing a camera on the tracks. The thing that I can see them coming up with is, "They are trying to get pictures of the undercarriage of the train to derail it while in motion." May sound stupid but this is how that crap comes about.

I personally like the shot in question, but I just think the timing is wrong, especially with the big todo in NYC not to long ago.

Just my 2 cents from the peanut gallery.
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Old 10-02-2009, 02:21 AM   #110
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Is it trespassing even if it's not actually touching any of the railroad property, and just occupying airspace in the gap between the ties?
It would have to be either an awfully low trestle, or an awfully long monopod, to allow you to stick it up between the ties without trespassing by climbing on the supports of the trestle. Just saying . . . .

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Old 10-02-2009, 04:03 AM   #111
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It would have to be either an awfully low trestle, or an awfully long monopod, to allow you to stick it up between the ties without trespassing by climbing on the supports of the trestle. Just saying . . . .

Jon
What, you've never rented a bucket truck to get a little extra elevation?
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Old 10-02-2009, 04:12 AM   #112
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What, you've never rented a bucket truck to get a little extra elevation?
Not a bad idea at all! I've considered convincing an odler railfan to rent a cherry picker for a nice bit of elevation...

No luck yet.

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Old 10-02-2009, 04:51 AM   #113
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This thread is probably now the most ridiculous I've seen in quite some time....now I have the mental image of a foamer in a cherry picker sitting in a creek, holding a monopod 10 feet long between the ties of a trestle in an attempt not to trespass.
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Old 10-02-2009, 05:53 AM   #114
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This thread is probably now the most ridiculous I've seen in quite some time....
After everything else that's gone on in here, I thought a little levitation -- err, levity -- was in order.

(Raise your hand if you DIDN'T see that one coming.)
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Old 10-02-2009, 08:11 AM   #115
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This thread is probably now the most ridiculous I've seen in quite some time....now I have the mental image of a foamer in a cherry picker sitting in a creek, holding a monopod 10 feet long between the ties of a trestle in an attempt not to trespass.


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Old 10-02-2009, 04:11 PM   #116
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This thread is probably now the most ridiculous I've seen in quite some time....now I have the mental image of a foamer in a cherry picker sitting in a creek, holding a monopod 10 feet long between the ties of a trestle in an attempt not to trespass.
I had to do it...

(Photoshop, just in case some freaks say anything).

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Old 10-02-2009, 06:22 PM   #117
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This thread is gotta be one of my favorites.

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Old 10-02-2009, 09:58 PM   #118
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It would have to be either an awfully low trestle, or an awfully long monopod, to allow you to stick it up between the ties without trespassing by climbing on the supports of the trestle. Just saying . . . .

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Old 10-03-2009, 12:02 AM   #119
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I had to do it...

(Photoshop, just in case some freaks say anything).

Perfect!

Mind you, I was thinking about a bridge more along the lines of this . . .
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Photograph © Dave Blaze...


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Old 10-03-2009, 12:33 AM   #120
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It would have to be either an awfully low trestle, or an awfully long monopod, to allow you to stick it up between the ties without trespassing by climbing on the supports of the trestle. Just saying . . . .

Jon
There is a bike path that follows a river in Lansing, MI, that goes under some very low railroad bridges. It's quite possible to stand underneath them on the bike path with a monopod fully extended and reach between the ties.

I've often thought about putting my camera between the ties at this bridge. You can see it wouldn't take much to get the elevation underneath the bridge on the other side. There is a trail underneath the bridge right there, as the property here is a county park. All I'd need is a step ladder and my monopod fully extended and I could easily get my camera between the ties.

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Old 10-03-2009, 12:38 AM   #121
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There is a bike path that follows a river in Lansing, MI, that goes under some very low railroad bridges. It's quite possible to stand underneath them on the bike path with a monopod fully extended and reach between the ties.
I'm looking forward to your shots!!!

Jon
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Old 10-03-2009, 12:44 AM   #122
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I'm looking forward to your shots!!!

Jon
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