Old 05-10-2012, 12:10 PM   #26
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Did the S&A ever even own a diesel?

On all of the whole World Wide Web, the only photo I can find is this
one on RP at a Museum. Is it legit or fantasy?
Southern acquired the S&A in 1962, and in addition to Nikos' link, there were several 4-axle, 'tuxedo' livery locomotives sublettered 'S&A' under the number. (There's a thread somewhere in this forum going into detail about subsidiaries.) The GP35 in the photo may have been one of them.

But I'm not aware of any actually being lettered 'Savannah & Atlanta' instead of 'Southern,' and the lettering on that GP35 is too thick (and perhaps the wrong font) to be a revenue-service paint job.
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Old 05-10-2012, 02:35 PM   #27
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But I'm not aware of any actually being lettered 'Savannah & Atlanta' instead of 'Southern,' and the lettering on that GP35 is too thick (and perhaps the wrong font) to be a revenue-service paint job.
In the May 2012 Trains, there is a photo of GP35 2706 in tuxedo with Savannah & Atlanta lettering. Doesn't mean that the 2715 was S&A, but there certainly were units in tuxedo with S&A lettering, just like there were Interstate, Carolina & North Western, and Central of Georgia.

Even if its not 100% correct, I think the S&A logo is a nice touch, the nose would be rather plain without it.
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Old 05-10-2012, 02:43 PM   #28
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"Diesels of The Southern Railway", book by Withers shows a couple of photos of S&A GP-35's. The GP-35 roster is #2705 through #2715. The lettering in the photos in the book show a much thinner lettering style. So, you're right about that John.

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Old 05-10-2012, 06:43 PM   #29
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In the May 2012 Trains, there is a photo of GP35 2706 in tuxedo with Savannah & Atlanta lettering. Doesn't mean that the 2715 was S&A, but there certainly were units in tuxedo with S&A lettering, just like there were Interstate, Carolina & North Western, and Central of Georgia.
Thanks. I don't think I've ever seen photos of of S&A or C&NW lettering. What's the time frame of the photos?
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Old 05-11-2012, 03:23 AM   #30
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Thanks. I don't think I've ever seen photos of of S&A or C&NW lettering. What's the time frame of the photos?
C&NW: http://www.railpictures.net/showphot...20Northwestern

There are not many photos of anything S&A other than the 750. The lettering on the 2715 is off, certainly not the SOU style font, but I guess it gets the point across.
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Old 05-11-2012, 03:57 AM   #31
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I understand this, but even when us non-Americans put a note to the screeners that a particular shot is news or unusual, it still has to meet all the usual criteria and a roster shot like the NS one in question would struggle to make it.
Non-American news simply appears to do nothing for the screeners, as American news usually does little for the rest of us.

Don't forget, RP has an awful lot of viewers outside North America. There are many thousands in Europe, Asia and Australasia. I have been approached by many sources from countries in Europe and Asia for use of my photos that they have seen on the site.

Don't get me wrong, USA newsworthy shots should be included as long as they are good photos and the rules are not relaxed because they are news. However, if relaxing the rules a little is the procedure for news shots, then let the same criteria be applied to photos from other countries please.

On this type of photo, I just don't think the rest of the world gets a fair crack of the whip. How about giving more consideration of the thousands of followers of RP that are not from N.America?
Wow. My mistake it was not Brit wit.
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Old 05-11-2012, 03:33 PM   #32
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Did the S&A ever even own a diesel?

On all of the whole World Wide Web, the only photo I can find is this
one on RP at a Museum. Is it legit or fantasy?


/Mitch
Of course they did. The company owned several Baldwins as I recall.

This particular scheme (the SR version) was applied to several GP35s in the '60s. No, they didn't have nose logos...but then none of the "heritage" units are 100 percent accurate in terms of replicating the past. That's not the intent, as I see it. However---they are much more appealing representations of the old company schemes than those strange graphic adaptations the UP did.
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Old 05-11-2012, 03:38 PM   #33
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In the May 2012 Trains, there is a photo of GP35 2706 in tuxedo with Savannah & Atlanta lettering.
What's this "tuxedo" term all about?
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Old 05-11-2012, 03:41 PM   #34
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C&NW: http://www.railpictures.net/showphot...20Northwestern

There are not many photos of anything S&A other than the 750. The lettering on the 2715 is off, certainly not the SOU style font, but I guess it gets the point across.
Thanks.


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What's this "tuxedo" term all about?
A term some fans use for the Southern paint scheme (black / white / gold).
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Old 05-11-2012, 03:46 PM   #35
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A term some fans use for the Southern paint scheme (black / white / gold).
Ah, ok...so it doesn't actually resemble a tuxedo like the ATSF war bonnet supposedly resembles an Indian headdress.
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Old 05-11-2012, 04:50 PM   #36
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Don't forget, RP has an awful lot of viewers outside North America. There are many thousands in Europe, Asia and Australasia. I have been approached by many sources from countries in Europe and Asia for use of my photos that they have seen on the site.

On this type of photo, I just don't think the rest of the world gets a fair crack of the whip. How about giving more consideration of the thousands of followers of RP that are not from N.America?
Indeed. The same applies to the rarity value - I got a photo of the TAZARA system in africa rejected for a blade of grass in front of the engine (it was on the edge of a tribal village - I wasn't about to go around gardening) and that is a 1000+ mile railway system over two countries with not a single photo in the database. The same cannot be said for NS, repaint or not!
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Old 05-11-2012, 09:29 PM   #37
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Indeed. The same applies to the rarity value - I got a photo of the TAZARA system in africa rejected for a blade of grass in front of the engine (it was on the edge of a tribal village - I wasn't about to go around gardening) and that is a 1000+ mile railway system over two countries with not a single photo in the database. The same cannot be said for NS, repaint or not!
Can you post a shot of that here so we can enjoy it?
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Old 05-11-2012, 10:04 PM   #38
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This link may not work outside UK. If it does, it's a documentary on the Tazara Railway.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00s6bgw
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Old 05-12-2012, 06:00 PM   #39
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Ah, ok...so it doesn't actually resemble a tuxedo like the ATSF war bonnet supposedly resembles an Indian headdress.
I taught you that and yet you still scoff. What a non foaming foamer
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Old 05-12-2012, 06:35 PM   #40
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I've never understood why those ATSF units weren't called cigar bands instead.
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Old 05-12-2012, 06:48 PM   #41
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Because Cigar Band is an entirely different ATSF paint scheme.

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Old 05-12-2012, 07:19 PM   #42
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same symbol, same geometry, different colors, that is it?

oh wait, oops, got it mixed up, the cigar band thing is on all of them, but something about that silver/red transition is supposed to evoke a headdress. It never made sense to me.
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Old 05-12-2012, 08:15 PM   #43
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The terms are nearly 80 years old
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Old 05-12-2012, 09:05 PM   #44
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Can you post a shot of that here so we can enjoy it?
Of course....

http://www.flickr.com/photos/youthwi...7629253212892/

Warning, includes errant grass, colours that don't look like the US and tracks that aren't level.
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Old 05-12-2012, 11:18 PM   #45
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Of course....

http://www.flickr.com/photos/youthwi...7629253212892/

Warning, includes errant grass, colours that don't look like the US and tracks that aren't level.
Cool stuff. I am at a loss as to the locomotive manufacturer. Who is it? GE? (Steam guy here is my excuse)
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Old 05-13-2012, 04:20 AM   #46
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The terms are nearly 80 years old
Yeah, because some nutjob 80 years ago thought that paint scheme looked like a "war bonnet," I'm supposed to think that now? Bah!
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Old 05-13-2012, 06:58 AM   #47
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Yeah, because some nutjob 80 years ago thought that paint scheme looked like a "war bonnet," I'm supposed to think that now? Bah!
Are you referring to Leland Knickerbocker as a nut job?

The war bonnet theme had more to do with the Santa Fe (on the E1's Super Chief) cross emblem superimposed on the profile of an American Indian Chief of an E1 on the side and from what I understand he carried that theme over to the nose of the unit.

Other Knickerbocker work included B&O and Seaboards E4's

here's an example of the Santa Fe cross emblem superimposed on the profile of an American Indian Chief

http://media.photobucket.com/image/s...r/d76eecaa.jpg

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Old 05-13-2012, 07:29 AM   #48
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I've never understood why those ATSF units weren't called cigar bands instead.
Yes, cigar bands are those that are pictured in the photo.

Eventually, AT&SF thickened up the stripes on the front.

Interestingly enough, the Santa Fe maintained the blue and yellow paint for their freight haulers and those were referred to by some as yellow bonnets.

The later versions lasted up until the merger with BN and a few are still running around today and switchers and road switchers.

I believe the Santa Fe was who called it the warbonnet originally and it was meant to brand their passenger service, which it did rather well.

Arguably it is one of the most successful banding schemes ever invented because you still see it today on toys and in popular culture.

Sadly, only one of the original F7's in warbonnet paint still exists at the CA state RR museum.

I have heard there are at least two others painted this way, but they were not originally owned by AT&SF.

here is a shot from 1943.

Santa Fe R.R. streamliner, the "Super Chief," being serviced at the depot, Albuquerque, N[ew] Mex[ico]. Servicing these diesel streamliners takes five minutes (LOC)

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Old 05-13-2012, 08:35 AM   #49
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Cool stuff. I am at a loss as to the locomotive manufacturer. Who is it? GE? (Steam guy here is my excuse)
Pretty standard GE export stuff (except the 01.60x locos which are EMD).
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Old 05-13-2012, 12:21 PM   #50
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Thanks, Robert, for the shot - very nice, BTW, except that I personally dislike the "show the negative" treatment on the edges.

I think that when I made my original post I simply got confused between cigar band and war bonnet. But I'm not confused about thinking that "war bonnet" makes no sense! I just don't see it, never have.

I have a bit of anitpathy towards ATSF, arising from, I think, that as a child the only diesel train sets I saw in the store had an ATSF engine. I wanted an eastern prototype! IRRC, I eventually got an N-scale set with PC-black F's. But otherwise, I do like the ATSF scheme, whether red or blue/yellow. I wish I knew how to take pictures that one day back in 1986 or so when I was in Streator, IL, or wherever it was I saw that blue/yellow unit.
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