Old 10-17-2009, 01:53 AM   #1
JRMDC
Senior Member
 
JRMDC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 11,202
Default Pro vs Anti RP

I was going to post this in another thread but I have decided to start a new one.

************

Quote:
Originally Posted by henfiet View Post
To save myself from having to make a second post, I did indeed once have pictures on this website a long time ago. I, like so many other excellent photographers out there, got tired of the usual BS from the screeners, and had the photos promptly deleted from the database.
Putting aside hen's expansive narrative and contributions - and, frankly, in retrospect, by far the most interesting question about his presence here recently is just why was he here, what was he trying to accomplish and/or experience???? - one thing I note is that there seems to be some latent hostility toward RP from what I will call the 'old crowd.'

I am not talking about the multi-reject crybabies or the Rats, I am talking about a group of photographers, older is my perception, that got it into their heads some years ago that RP was not accepting what they considered good photography. Now, my casual view is that was true. In particular, I perceive a substantial expansion of what is considered acceptable photography over the years I have participated here. I think if some of those people came to RP for a fresh look with truly open minds, that they would form a substantially different impression. I think some people put RP into a mental category years ago and they haven't bothered to check to see if that is currently accurate.

Along with this is the undeniable fact that it takes time to get past all the low value basic shots that RP chooses to accept. I think that some people can't get past that RP has best/near-best shots of a more artistic kind and best/near-best pure wedgies, both in the mix, and the latter make it hard to see the quality of the former. And they judge the site down, because they would like RP to be primarily about the former, and in terms of volume it isn't. And back in the day it was even harder to find the good stuff because there was a smaller proportion of it than there is now. And back in the day impressions were made, and impressions can last.

I suspect - with NO evidence whatsoever (none for any of this, just my impressions/observations) - that there might be a generational issue also, older RR photo veterans (of widely varying ability, I might add) with their great experience in rail photography looking at all the relative newbies and thinking less than fully welcoming thoughts, perhaps subconsciously. And beyond that, just think of all those people under 30, under 25, with outstanding work here, and think of what someone older and less talented might feel. And I suspect that the younger crowd is more of an RP crowd and the older crowd, less so. Gazillions of older photographers have no interest in doing the RP thing.

I also suspect, or at least wonder, whether the higher technical standards of the digital world, with its high sharpness, its ability to make adjustments for level and exposure and what not, puts them off. They learned how to do slides well, they accepted what someone here in their signature calls something like "25% focus accuray and we learned to like it", that sort of thing, and they see the new digitally-related focus on high standards for rather narrow or less-artistic technical characteristics of images, and they say too much! Irrelevant!

Let's put aside for now any comments, for example from Jim Thias, that RP is actually not so strict, for example on level shots.

And there are certainly dimensions of RP standards that one can have reasonable disagreements about. Is it really so bad that half of a V-nose shape on the front of a standard wedgie appear in shadow, does that really trash a shot to the point that it gets called, misguidedly, "backlit" (how about "poorly sidelit")? Yes, that is one of my pet peeves, I'm sure everyone has their own, and they are all different.

So, I am saying there is old and new, older and younger, film and digital, etc., and it doesn't sink in well with some that RP has been around, and they don't necessarily appreciate the good side, which is extensive.

These are purely speculations of mine, what say you all, anything worthwhile? Does this meet any of your experience? Am I full of it?
__________________
My RP pix are here.
My Flickr pix are here.

My commentaries on rail pictures are in my blog.

RP Photo Albums:
Cabooses
Engine Details
Farm and Train
Plumes!
Railroad Details
Signal Details
Switchstand Shots
JRMDC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2009, 04:25 AM   #2
Ween
Senior Member
 
Ween's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,861
Default

Quote:
Let's put aside for now any comments, for example from Jim Thias, that RP is actually not so strict, for example on level shots.
Is it legal to use 'for example' twice in the same sentence?

Generational differences abound in every aspect of life...it's not going to be any different in this hobby.
__________________
Ween is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2009, 06:52 AM   #3
John West
Senior Curmudgeon
 
John West's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Mill Valley, CA
Posts: 1,081
Default

I get a lot of good chuckles from the anti-RP crowd. I suspect a lot of issues are at work. Obviously the screeners are forced to exercise a lot of judgement, all of which leaves lots of opportunity for offense for any number of reasons. There is also probably a generational gap kind of thing...some folks were good at film but are still adapting to puters. But I think RP is winning. The print media is struggling, and I see more and more first class images on RP, some by "known" names, others by new folks with real talent, hidden among the all too large volume of mediocre images that seem to get accepted because there is no "objective" reasons to reject them. If I were to make one change, it would be to raise the quality bar.
__________________
John West
See my pix here and
here and here
John West is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2009, 12:03 PM   #4
milwman
I shoot what I like
 
milwman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Cedar Fall's, Iowa
Posts: 2,474
Send a message via Yahoo to milwman
Default

[quote=John West;101228"objective" reasons to reject them. If I were to make one change, it would be to raise the quality bar.[/QUOTE]

Thats the tuff part as I see it, Quality? Just what is it, Cropping? Colors? Time of day? 3/4 shots? How unique the shot is or how much work it was to get it. We all see and want a shot to look the way we see it. It's the Art of the way you see a shot and why we try so hard to get some on here. We all see art we don't like or don't get but is it still art to some. I think they would be better off by making a new page of most artful shots that gets some of the meets the grade but isn't art full, but a nice photo on a page of there own?

The more I think of this the more i like it!
__________________
Richard Scott Marsh I go by Scott long story

http://www.flickr.com/photos/22299476@N05/

Last edited by milwman; 10-17-2009 at 12:15 PM. Reason: add more
milwman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2009, 01:26 PM   #5
KevinM
Senior Member
 
KevinM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 2,030
Default

I'm an Engineer, not an Artist. I like pursuits in which quality can be measured as opposed to being totally subjective. With that background, I'm not in favor of RP changing its standards unless, as Richard suggested, they add a page for the artful. I doubt anything I've ever shot would qualify for inclusion there.

As for whether RP's current standards are too narrow, I think one could easily argue that they turn away stuff that many would consider quality shots or artful shots. We must remember however, that RP is a business of sorts and the management team has to define the product they think will sell...and so far, they seem to have filled a niche in the web market. I personally like the high standard, because it has pushed me to a standard of quality that is way beyond what the average shutterbug is capable of. When friends of mine look at my pictures, they marvel at lighting, composition, color etc....and my stuff is pretty mediocre compared to much of what I see here. I wouldn't have gotten to where I am without the Drill Sergeants (Screeners) beating me up.

As to improvements that could be made.... Two things:

The first is something that has been brought up previously...and shot to shreds . One of the reasons we all come here is feedback. There's no denying the fact that photographers like RP because we can see if people find our stuff interesting. For that reason, we all look at viewcounts as a measure of how well we stack up. I like the concept of presenting thumbs to the RP audience...people who actually come to the site....and letting them decide if a picture is interesting enough to view full size. I'm not at all fond of the concept of posting on RP, then spending the next hour posting "Thanks for Looking" links on Altamont Press, Trains, Trainorders etc etc. and there's clearly a minority segment here that has taken to doing that. I prefer the idea of letting the RP audience decide who takes more interesting pictures, not who is the better promoter. If I were RP Editor for a day, I'd allow linking ad-nauseum, but the viewcounts displayed would only show RP audience activity.

The second is derailment shots and wreck pictures. Ban 'em . I don't believe that most of these represent "The Best Railroad Photos on the 'Net" and they don't show our primary focus (the railroads and railroaders) in the best of "light". Most wrecks are due to human error and hanging that stuff out there just demeans and embarrasses the very people who make railroading happen. In all honesty, most wreck postings come across as taking advantage of someone's misfortune for the sake of some views. Perhaps that is human nature.

Just my $.02.
__________________
/Kevin

My RP stuff is here.

Link to my Flickr Albums. Lots of Steam Railroad stuff there from all over the US.
KevinM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2009, 01:34 PM   #6
trainboysd40
Senior Member
 
trainboysd40's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Calgary, Alberta on the CP Laggan Subdivision
Posts: 2,048
Send a message via MSN to trainboysd40
Default

Hey now Kevin, my average views per photo would be like 5 or 10 lower if it wasn't for the one derailment shot I have on! I did my best to frame it well, too
__________________
got a D5 IIi and now he doesnt afread fo 12800 iSO
Youtube (Model Railway, Vlogs, Tutorials, and prototype)
My Website
Obligatory link to shots on RP, HERE
trainboysd40 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2009, 02:58 PM   #7
ottergoose
American Gunzel
 
ottergoose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Eagan, MN
Posts: 1,626
Send a message via AIM to ottergoose Send a message via Yahoo to ottergoose
Default

The anti-RP folks I've run into seem to fit into two categories - the intentionally inexperienced: "I just want to be out taking pictures, I don't want to learn everything it takes to post-process 'professionally,'" and the experienced: "I've been getting pictures published in Trains since 1963, I'll be damned if some kid in a basement tells me my shots are good or not." I suppose there are the crackpots who don't fall into those two categories "CK hates me," "AB(2) loves so-and-so," "they don't allow enough post processing," etc.

The intentionally inexperienced enjoy the hobby the way they want to, send their stuff to Flickr or RRPictureArchives, and are completely content. It's fine for them to enjoy the hobby however they want to.

The experienced folks wish they could get their stuff accepted but got sick of the process, which I think can be pretty aggravating and inconsistent, especially if you have a significant amount of experience in railroad photography outside of RP, and don't last long enough to get a feel for what all of the rejection reasons actually mean. These guys show their work at slideshows, publish it in books or magazines, and a few of them upload to Flickr.

The guys who do make it on RP get a kick out of the instant feedback, some enjoy the challenge of getting a top shot (artistic merit, successful spam, inclusion of a female, etc.), and like that their work, in some cases hours after a photo was made, can be seen by thousands of people. They realize that talented photographers here don't all have names you've seen printed on calendars, book covers, or under photos in Trains, and that some of them are pretty damn good given their perceived lack of experience. Most importantly, they're willing to put up with some BS from the process here, because the enjoyment of being successful here is less enraging than the process of having good photos rejected.

The issue of link spamming is pretty easy to counter - judge your success by the number of positive comments and favorites that your shot generates. Boom, problem solved.

The problem with "raising the bar" is that you wouldn't be able to replicate the mentoring effect that the site's had for many of the guys who really cut their teeth here. Had RP not accepted some of my shoddier work, I don't know how likely it is that I'd be as interested or successful in railroad photography as I am now. I'd be interested to know if that holds true for anyone else, or if that's a good enough reason for maintaining the quality status quo.
__________________
Nick Benson | Pictures | Website | Flickr | Profile | JetPhotos | Twitter
ottergoose is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2009, 03:46 PM   #8
Andrew Blaszczyk (2)
Senior Member
 
Andrew Blaszczyk (2)'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Marlboro, NJ
Posts: 1,956
Send a message via AIM to Andrew Blaszczyk (2) Send a message via Yahoo to Andrew Blaszczyk (2)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRMDC View Post
. . . I suspect - with NO evidence whatsoever (none for any of this, just my impressions/observations) - that there might be a generational issue also, older RR photo veterans (of widely varying ability, I might add) with their great experience in rail photography looking at all the relative newbies and thinking less than fully welcoming thoughts, perhaps subconsciously. And beyond that, just think of all those people under 30, under 25, with outstanding work here, and think of what someone older and less talented might feel. And I suspect that the younger crowd is more of an RP crowd and the older crowd, less so. Gazillions of older photographers have no interest in doing the RP thing. . . .
I call it God's-gift-to-railroad-photography syndrome and most of the "seasoned" railroad photographers that I hear, meet or read suffer from it. They are the guys who think their photos are the BEST ever and do not suffer from one flaw. It is still perfect regardless of whether it is slightly backlit or the scan has a speck of dust on it. It is often because of the subject matter too. Remember, the "good old" days are gone so everything is "boring" now. Rejecting a cloudy shot of DRGW or SP power is sacrilige to some people even though sometimes all it needs is a little brightening; it becomes personal. To them getting an unlevel horizon rejection would be a slap in the face rather than what it is, a casual "hey, this photo needs a little bit of rotation to make it perfect or acceptable" comment. It's mostly overreaction probably because the admins of the site are twice as young as them and they take it as a personal issue rather than the picture being unlevel.

As much as I love hearing positive feedback about RP, I absolutely LOVE hearing people bash it without good reason. "A buddy of mine had this awesome photo rejected one time so I don't even bother." "You have to be in the in-crowd to have photos accepted." (I don't know everyone who I've accepted a photo from personally.) "They're way too picky over there at RP." The latter is pretty pathetic when you consider that a 9 or 10 year old girl has had a photo of the week here! and there are countless teenagers who have had shots accepted.
__________________
-Andrew Blaszczyk a.k.a. AB(2)
Proud fan of the Sabres, Islanders, Rockies, and Lions.

"My camera is an artistic medium, not a tool of terrorism."

www.ab2photography.com Coming soon!
My photos on RailPictures:
http://www.railpictures.net/showphotos.php?userid=960

Last edited by Andrew Blaszczyk (2); 10-17-2009 at 04:18 PM.
Andrew Blaszczyk (2) is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2009, 04:09 PM   #9
Bryant Kaden
Member
 
Bryant Kaden's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Brooten, MN
Posts: 40
Default

What I value the most about this site is that I can search for something I'm interested in (say a shot of a particular locomotive or at a particular location) and be guaranteed a good or even great image of what I'm looking for. Sure, they may not all be "art," but I think there is enough variety in the db now that you can find pretty much anything you're looking for.

I appreciate those who are "pushing the envelope" of railroad photography, but I think there should also be room for those who take a more documentary approach. For instance, one of my favorite photographers on the site is Kevin Piper. Not only is he recording contemporary railroading as a railroader himself, but he's got a great collection of roster shots that I personally enjoy. I wouldn't consider many of his shots "art," but I think they are a unique and valuable addition to the db nonetheless. I would hate to see those sorts of images excluded simply because they're not artistic enough.
__________________
My rp.net photos
Bryant Kaden is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2009, 05:12 PM   #10
Dennis A. Livesey
Senior Member
 
Dennis A. Livesey's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,986
Cool

Janusz, as usual, a very thoughtful post. I've spent the last hour thinking.

At Train Festival 2009, I ran into a couple of photographers (+40 years of age) who adamantly refused to post to RP and I went away feeling frustrated not being able to see their work.

My wish would be that RP became the place for all rail photographers to display their good work for all to enjoy. While everyone has the right to do what they wish, unshared passion is a loss to our culture. The thought that fabulous images are locked away in someone's files, never to be seen, is too lugubrious for me to contemplate.

(I know one person here would accuse me of the same thing, hoarding my photos. All I can say right now is, "I'm working on it!")

Certainly calcified behavior keeps some from adapting to the future and coming on RP. But also it's the newbie, young or old, who can't get past the rejection learning process.

However, screening is what makes RP unique and valuable. Witness Kevin, or Nick or myself who got much better learning at RP school.

I love RP because I finally get to show off for thousands of people. In the good ole' days the only national show was being in Trains or Railfan. But unless you had a super shot, or news, or a feature article, there was no way the magazines could show all the good photography there was out there. 90% of fans such as myself had no outlet for all our creative juices. RP allows does what the local club slide show could never do. What was once a frustrating impossibility has now miraculously occurred: I now can be amazed by incredible images from around the world I never would have seen and likewise the world sees my work. That is the wonder of the internet at it's best.
__________________
Dennis

I Foam Therefore I Am.

My pix on RailPics:

I am on Flickr as well:

"Dennis is such a God, he could do that with a camera obscura and some homemade acetate." Holloran Grade

"To me it looks drawn in in Paintshop. It looks like a puddle of orange on the sky." SFO777
Dennis A. Livesey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2009, 05:12 PM   #11
Dennis A. Livesey
Senior Member
 
Dennis A. Livesey's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,986
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ottergoose View Post
The problem with "raising the bar" is that you wouldn't be able to replicate the mentoring effect that the site's had for many of the guys who really cut their teeth here. Had RP not accepted some of my shoddier work, I don't know how likely it is that I'd be as interested or successful in railroad photography as I am now. I'd be interested to know if that holds true for anyone else, or if that's a good enough reason for maintaining the quality status quo.
Nick, a very good point. Already too many people perceive RP as an ''elitist club of snobs." I think RP would lose in the long run. But I must agree with John to the extant that wading though someone's countless wedgies to get to their good stuff is annoying.

RP standards are not the end all be all. They are actually rather middle of the road. Yes, there is arty stuff but not exclusively, and there is common stuff but at least an acceptable technical level.

So yeah, after slumming yesterday though several anti-RP diatribes that seemed to exist mostly because someone didn't have anything else to do, I've come to the not-original conclusion you can't please everybody.
__________________
Dennis

I Foam Therefore I Am.

My pix on RailPics:

I am on Flickr as well:

"Dennis is such a God, he could do that with a camera obscura and some homemade acetate." Holloran Grade

"To me it looks drawn in in Paintshop. It looks like a puddle of orange on the sky." SFO777
Dennis A. Livesey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2009, 05:26 PM   #12
AntD.
Senior Member
 
AntD.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Greenville, SC
Posts: 372
Default

I'll admit, at first I was a complete Anti back when I really didn't understand the whole "quaility" idea, and was rejected time after time again. Now I'm a Pro RP member with 47 and counting photos on the DB. It's also funny how now looking back at it, my first few photos that were accepted I wish I could go back and edit them because the look poor to me now LOL!

It just takes time and lots of practice & patience! And I'm the type of person with very little patience!
AntD. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2009, 05:56 PM   #13
EMTRailfan
Senior Member
 
EMTRailfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: I can be found railfanning the abandoned B&O Northern Sub.
Posts: 1,454
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AntD. View Post
It's also funny how now looking back at it, my first few photos that were accepted I wish I could go back and edit them because the look poor to me now LOL!

You can as long as you still have your originals, and then goto the resubmit in your Members' Section and re-upload the new version to replace the old.
__________________
A Picture Is Worth 1000 Words. A Memory Is Worth 1000 Pictures.
EMTRailfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2009, 06:14 PM   #14
Dennis A. Livesey
Senior Member
 
Dennis A. Livesey's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,986
Talking

Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinM View Post
... they add a page for the artful. I doubt anything I've ever shot would qualify for inclusion there.

,..and my stuff is pretty mediocre compared to much of what I see here. I wouldn't have gotten to where I am without the Drill Sergeants (Screeners) beating me up.



__________________
Dennis

I Foam Therefore I Am.

My pix on RailPics:

I am on Flickr as well:

"Dennis is such a God, he could do that with a camera obscura and some homemade acetate." Holloran Grade

"To me it looks drawn in in Paintshop. It looks like a puddle of orange on the sky." SFO777
Dennis A. Livesey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2009, 06:17 PM   #15
travsirocz
Senior Member
 
travsirocz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Eau Claire, WI
Posts: 2,459
Send a message via AIM to travsirocz
Default

What has RP done?
Two of the best from my last page.
Image © Travis Dewitz
PhotoID: 201985
Photograph © Travis Dewitz

Image © Travis Dewitz
PhotoID: 201687
Photograph © Travis Dewitz

Two selected from my first page.
Image © Travis Dewitz
PhotoID: 300155
Photograph © Travis Dewitz

Image © Travis Dewitz
PhotoID: 299717
Photograph © Travis Dewitz



RP has also caused great distress to my wallet (gas, camera gear). I would be no where as passionate about photography in general without this site. I have been shooting for myself as a hobby since I was 13. I thought they were good but found out others thought differently from the screeners and on the forums. This caused me to try and improve and strive to shoot better each time I went out. This site was a push in the right direction. Besides the "game" of getting shots accepted, once they are on the site the game of how many views, awards, favorites, comments kick in. You could do this at sites like flickr also but its like a 100 to 1 in views. 50 views there is like 5,000 here. The regulation make my enjoyment of the site much higher. Also, in the beginning - I really hated the f****** screeners. I did! That has changed, atleast most days.

Some people just do not have the drive to move forward. I have the drive to not be left behind.

Last edited by travsirocz; 10-17-2009 at 06:20 PM.
travsirocz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2009, 06:29 PM   #16
John West
Senior Curmudgeon
 
John West's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Mill Valley, CA
Posts: 1,081
Default Voyages of discovery

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis A. Livesey View Post
The thought that fabulous images are locked away in someone's files, never to be seen, is too lugubrious for me to contemplate.
One of the really fun aspects of RP for me is it gives me an excuse to dig through 50 years worth of slides, many of which are long forgotten. Just the passage of time has made many mediocre pix from long ago all of a sudden much more interesting. And Photoshop provides some tools to help fix some of the flaws.

With regard to my earlier comment about "raising the bar." I agree there are lots of issues since after all it is an inherently subjective thing, and different pix appeal to different people. Mitch Goldman talked about the "hidden gems" many moons ago. I continue to find all kinds of hidden gems, and wonder why they didn't get an SC, top shot, PCA, or some such recognition to help raise them to the top of the pile. I would encourage the screeners to be more free with SC's, since for many of us that is the primary gateway to sorting the interesting from the other stuff. But in the same breath, I would suggest the screeners try harder to "think outside of the box" to avoid the cliche's.

Having said all that, perhaps I can now ask Dennis to explain exactly what "lugubrious" means.
__________________
John West
See my pix here and
here and here
John West is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2009, 06:41 PM   #17
travsirocz
Senior Member
 
travsirocz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Eau Claire, WI
Posts: 2,459
Send a message via AIM to travsirocz
Default

Still, I would love to see a weekly or daily or bi weekly hidden gem award.
travsirocz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2009, 06:48 PM   #18
Dennis A. Livesey
Senior Member
 
Dennis A. Livesey's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,986
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by John West View Post
Having said all that, perhaps I can now ask Dennis to explain exactly what "lugubrious" means.
I was channeling my inner Beebe!
__________________
Dennis

I Foam Therefore I Am.

My pix on RailPics:

I am on Flickr as well:

"Dennis is such a God, he could do that with a camera obscura and some homemade acetate." Holloran Grade

"To me it looks drawn in in Paintshop. It looks like a puddle of orange on the sky." SFO777
Dennis A. Livesey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2009, 06:54 PM   #19
JRMDC
Senior Member
 
JRMDC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 11,202
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ottergoose View Post
The problem with "raising the bar" is that you wouldn't be able to replicate the mentoring effect that the site's had for many of the guys who really cut their teeth here. Had RP not accepted some of my shoddier work, I don't know how likely it is that I'd be as interested or successful in railroad photography as I am now. I'd be interested to know if that holds true for anyone else, or if that's a good enough reason for maintaining the quality status quo.
This is a feature of RP greatly underappreciated outside the RP-participating realm.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis A. Livesey View Post
But I must agree with John to the extant that wading though someone's countless wedgies to get to their good stuff is annoying.
The "wade" is the price we pay for having a site that provides (free!) guidance and inspiration for rail photographers, us and others. Without the plain wedgies as being sort-of a "minor league" for photography development, you don't get people rising to the better stuff. (None of this should be perceived as denigrating those who shoot or enjoy looking at the plain wedgies; there are many valuable facets to any human activity.)
__________________
My RP pix are here.
My Flickr pix are here.

My commentaries on rail pictures are in my blog.

RP Photo Albums:
Cabooses
Engine Details
Farm and Train
Plumes!
Railroad Details
Signal Details
Switchstand Shots
JRMDC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2009, 07:01 PM   #20
milwman
I shoot what I like
 
milwman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Cedar Fall's, Iowa
Posts: 2,474
Send a message via Yahoo to milwman
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AntD. View Post

It just takes time and lots of practice & patience! And I'm the type of person with very little patience!
Think you seen the light from the looks of your last photo.
__________________
Richard Scott Marsh I go by Scott long story

http://www.flickr.com/photos/22299476@N05/

Last edited by milwman; 10-18-2009 at 04:09 AM. Reason: fix the spelling
milwman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2009, 07:03 PM   #21
Dennis A. Livesey
Senior Member
 
Dennis A. Livesey's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,986
Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRMDC View Post
The "wade" is the price we pay for having a site that provides (free!) guidance and inspiration for rail photographers, us and others. Without the plain wedgies as being sort-of a "minor league" for photography development, you don't get people rising to the better stuff. (None of this should be perceived as denigrating those who shoot or enjoy looking at the plain wedgies; there are many valuable facets to any human activity.)
Agreed.



(I annoy myself too easliy)
__________________
Dennis

I Foam Therefore I Am.

My pix on RailPics:

I am on Flickr as well:

"Dennis is such a God, he could do that with a camera obscura and some homemade acetate." Holloran Grade

"To me it looks drawn in in Paintshop. It looks like a puddle of orange on the sky." SFO777
Dennis A. Livesey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2009, 07:13 PM   #22
Dennis A. Livesey
Senior Member
 
Dennis A. Livesey's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,986
Cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by travsirocz View Post
What has RP done?
I like how Travis illustrated photographer growth so well.

My last page:

Image ©
PhotoID:
Photograph ©

Image © Dennis A. Livesey
PhotoID: 83408
Photograph © Dennis A. Livesey


My first page:
Image © Dennis A. Livesey
PhotoID: 291651
Photograph © Dennis A. Livesey

Image © Dennis A. Livesey-liveseyimages.com
PhotoID: 300132
Photograph © Dennis A. Livesey-liveseyimages.com

Image © Dennis A. Livesey-liveseyimages.com
PhotoID: 300429
Photograph © Dennis A. Livesey-liveseyimages.com

Image © Dennis A. Livesey-liveseyimages.com
PhotoID: 292635
Photograph © Dennis A. Livesey-liveseyimages.com

Image © Dennis A. Livesey-liveseyimages.com
PhotoID: 300138
Photograph © Dennis A. Livesey-liveseyimages.com

Image © Dennis A. Livesey-liveseyimages.com
PhotoID: 299477
Photograph © Dennis A. Livesey-liveseyimages.com
__________________
Dennis

I Foam Therefore I Am.

My pix on RailPics:

I am on Flickr as well:

"Dennis is such a God, he could do that with a camera obscura and some homemade acetate." Holloran Grade

"To me it looks drawn in in Paintshop. It looks like a puddle of orange on the sky." SFO777
Dennis A. Livesey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2009, 07:33 PM   #23
cblaz
Senior Member
 
cblaz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Marlboro, New Jersey
Posts: 1,007
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis A. Livesey View Post
But I must agree with John to the extant that wading though someone's countless wedgies to get to their good stuff is annoying.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRMDC View Post
The "wade" is the price we pay for having a site that provides (free!) guidance and inspiration for rail photographers, us and others. Without the plain wedgies as being sort-of a "minor league" for photography development, you don't get people rising to the better stuff. (None of this should be perceived as denigrating those who shoot or enjoy looking at the plain wedgies; there are many valuable facets to any human activity.)
I agree completely with Janusz. One of the great things about RP is how you can watch photographers evolve from this (taken a month apart in 2003):

Image © Andrew Blaszczyk (2)
PhotoID: 33844
Photograph © Andrew Blaszczyk (2)

Image © John Ryan
PhotoID: 190947
Photograph © John Ryan


to this (taken 2 days apart in October 2009):

Image © Andrew Blaszczyk (2)
PhotoID: 300264
Photograph © Andrew Blaszczyk (2)

Image © John Ryan
PhotoID: 300409
Photograph © John Ryan


Every photographer has to start somewhere, and RP can be a learning tool to evolve into a better photographer. I know I, as well as some other forum members, have advised a newbie photographer to go out and master the 3/4 wedgie to help learn their cameras. If RP didn't accept the "boring" wedgies, a photographer might become frustrated and never grow.

The so-called "God's greatest gifts to railfan photography" that litter the pages of Trains, R&R and Railroads Illustrated had to start somewhere. The only difference is we never see their mediocre work, only the shots they deem worthy of publication.

Most of us can point to one of older shots on RP and point out all the mistakes and what we would have done differently, and RP is a part of that learning process for today's generation of railfans. That's the reason I will not remove any of my older photos, so I can always show someone how my photography has grown and improved thanks to trial and effort, guidence, and this site.

- Chris
/Resumes cursing under my breath every time AB2 and John Ryan post a new shot.
__________________
- Christopher Blaszczyk
My shots on RP: http://www.railpictures.net/showphotos.php?userid=284
cblaz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2009, 07:34 PM   #24
DWHonan
Senior Member
 
DWHonan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Issaquah, WA
Posts: 590
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis A. Livesey View Post
I love RP because I finally get to show off for thousands of people.
This is why I finally began posting to RP earlier this year. It wasn't until I sold a few photos that I realized, "How would a potential customer find my work?" A few friends had mentioned to me how photos they posted here had been licensed for use by a variety of railroad-related businesses, and it occurred to me that RP was by far the best way for me to develop a portfolio of my work that could be viewed by a wide range of people. It's not necessarily just the profit motive, as pleasant as that is -- I've also found great enjoyment in simply getting feedback on my work and knowing that others enjoy the end results of my photographic visions.

One thing I've learned is that there's almost no predicting what RP viewers will like; some shots you think will do outstandingly well end up flopping miserably...
Image © David Honan
PhotoID: 282687
Photograph © David Honan

...while others you post to prove the point that derailment shots get an excessive amount of views, regardless of how boring the composition is, unexpectedly win a PCA and become the second-most-viewed shot in your portfolio:
Image © David Honan
PhotoID: 270526
Photograph © David Honan


It's been a fun nine months, and I continue to look forward to sharing more of my work and seeing the great scenes other photogs capture!
__________________
Dave Honan
Issaquah, WA
View my portfolio at RailPictures.net
View my portfolio at Flickr Not quite so new anymore!
DWHonan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2009, 07:46 PM   #25
NathBDP
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 47
Default

Well, I am pro RP. I see their standards and realize what will most likely be accepted into the database so I don't bother trying to upload something too different. But then again RP can be a backwater in the sense that they will accept the same old backlit steam sunset photo, or a 3/4 wedge shot, no matter how tiresome that type of composition has become. It's like everyone trying to emulate Steinheimer or Benson, and now O W Link. They should qualify images on the basis of originality too.
NathBDP is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 11:14 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.