Old 11-29-2016, 07:05 PM   #1
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Default The dreaded Backlit rejection

I know its no hope for RP due to the rejection but its a heritage. Proof that not all heritage units make it on RP even if its on a little shortline that normally gets NS handy me down Dash 9's. Sharing for your 7 day viewing and tips or suggestions. Keep in mind this RR operates 6am to about 11am. June would be the ideal sun but we dont live in a perfect world so how can you make it work?
http://www.railpictures.net/viewreje...57&key=9571377
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Old 11-29-2016, 07:30 PM   #2
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For starters, take a picture that gives some evidence of location. This curve could be located anywhere in the world. Students of foliage could narrow down the geography, but for the rest of us, there is absolutely nothing here that says CW or anything else.

Chesapeake Western, I presume? Just did a web search; I am unfamiliar with the RR and the area.
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Old 11-29-2016, 07:50 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by JRMDC View Post
For starters, take a picture that gives some evidence of location....
Chesapeake Western, I presume? Just did a web search; I am unfamiliar with the RR and the area.
Sorry I assumed that the location maker I put on the pic showed up in the rejection link. Here is Google Street view link. Yes this is the Chesapeake Western RR in Harrisonburg, Va

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.4760...7i13312!8i6656

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Old 11-30-2016, 12:33 AM   #4
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Looks very greenish on my monitor, and could probably do with a bump in contrast and some CCW rotation.

-Jacques
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Old 11-30-2016, 05:23 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grewup on the CW View Post
June would be the ideal sun...
I would never use "June" "sun" and "ideal" in the same sentence...
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Old 11-30-2016, 11:50 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by miningcamper1 View Post
I would never use "June" "sun" and "ideal" in the same sentence...
I was speaking or referring to the time of year in which the sun would be at the optimal angle (for the time of day this train operates) to properly or fully light up the nose as RP likes it. (Thanks again to Mr. Thias for providing the "Sun Dial" tool).
That being said this picture was taken in April and it was a grain train special. The units that come in on grain trains are tied down for the entire length of time the grain train is being unloaded. Sometimes this process takes 2 to 3 days or longer. This units are deemed to powerful by NS for shortline switch work and are tied down and hidden in a secluded siding until time to "go home". So moments like this are rare here on the Chesapeake Western RR, hence my original comment, "Since we dont live in a perfect world". I'm simply looking for ways to improve this shot in the future when things are not as "ideal". A broad side shot would have eliminated the backlit nose but I wasn't going for a roster shot.
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Old 11-30-2016, 01:07 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grewup on the CW View Post
A broad side shot would have eliminated the backlit nose but I wasn't going for a roster shot.
Just like "closer" does not mean "better", "broadside" does not automatically translate to "roster":

Image © Doug Lilly
PhotoID: 594142
Photograph © Doug Lilly


I notice that many of the less-experienced photographers on the site stay very close to the tracks. The first thing that I do when I arrive at a location is look behind me for a place where I can capture more of the scene, and add more context.
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Old 11-30-2016, 01:58 PM   #8
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To be honest I don't really have any problem with the "backlighting" in this. I probably would have cropped and processed a little differently but I've don't see backlighting as an issue.
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Old 11-30-2016, 02:24 PM   #9
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I second Doug's comment-- use a shorter lense, and stand back. Broadside would have been your friend in that light, and allowed you to include more scenery. In shots like this, where the subject is the train, and only the train, it gives the screener much less to deal with to possibly allow a technical flaw (even if somewhat minor) to pass. The viewer's eye is drawn solely to the train, and if the light is not perfect, that is the first thing likely drawn to the eye. Some good distractions (foliage, landscape, sign, etc.) would certainly have helped.
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Old 11-30-2016, 02:41 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Decapod401 View Post
...I notice that many of the less-experienced photographers on the site stay very close to the tracks. The first thing that I do when I arrive at a location is look behind me for a place where I can capture more of the scene, and add more context.
Doug, Less experienced is true for me as I've only been (seriously) at this for close to 2 years now and a lot of my shots are track side. A lot of the locations on this short line are tight so I have been limited there BUT I do like the more scenic shots as in your suggestion. I have been doing as you have suggested and trying to get more details in the pics, as that I my preference rather than RP's standard wedge shot they prefer. Unfortunately for this moment, the parking lot was full of cars and took away from the subject so I opted for this angle to try on RP. I took other wider shots but again the vehicles took away from shot. I even went across the road but then the power lines and poles grabbed the attention.

I also agree with Joesph Cermak comment on the backlit, I fine with it too. I really think its ok but since its not lit up like a Christmas tree....
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Old 11-30-2016, 02:44 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShortlinesUSA View Post
I second Doug's comment-- use a shorter lense, and stand back. Broadside would have been your friend in that light, and allowed you to include more scenery. In shots like this, where the subject is the train, and only the train, it gives the screener much less to deal with to possibly allow a technical flaw (even if somewhat minor) to pass. The viewer's eye is drawn solely to the train, and if the light is not perfect, that is the first thing likely drawn to the eye. Some good distractions (foliage, landscape, sign, etc.) would certainly have helped.
Thanks Mike, point noted for future.
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Old 11-30-2016, 03:56 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grewup on the CW View Post
I have been doing as you have suggested and trying to get more details in the pics, as that I my preference rather than RP's standard wedge shot they prefer. Unfortunately for this moment, the parking lot was full of cars and took away from the subject so I opted for this angle to try on RP. I took other wider shots but again the vehicles took away from shot. I even went across the road but then the power lines and poles grabbed the attention.
Looking at the Google Maps view that you linked, it appears that standing somewhere in the vicinity if the base of the guy wire to the left would have allowed you to put the grain elevator in the left side of the frame while getting an angle of the train that was favoring broadside more than the one that you submitted.

From your comment, it sounds like the gravel parking lot next to the tracks was not empty at the time. I'm not a big fan of vehicles not associated with the railroad in the picture, but the scene would still have been more interesting than the submitted image.

WRT your comment about RP's preferences, I doubt that RP prefers wedgies. It's just that 80% of the submittals are wedgies, and they have to accept some to keep a client base.

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Originally Posted by Grewup on the CW View Post
I also agree with Joesph Cermak comment on the backlit, I fine with it too. I really think its ok but since its not lit up like a Christmas tree....
I don't find the backlighting super objectionable, but as Janusz and Mike pointed out, a plain wedgie is going to be a bigger target for rejections, just because so many are submitted.
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Old 11-30-2016, 04:12 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Decapod401 View Post
Looking at the Google Maps view that you linked, it appears that standing somewhere in the vicinity if the base of the guy wire to the left would have allowed you to put the grain elevator in the left side of the frame while getting an angle of the train that was favoring broadside......
I don't find the backlighting super objectionable, but as Janusz and Mike pointed out, a plain wedgie is going to be a bigger target for rejections, just because so many are submitted.
Something like this?
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Old 11-30-2016, 04:36 PM   #14
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Something like this?
Needs some work but I'd give that a try. I think it's better with more context.
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Old 11-30-2016, 05:18 PM   #15
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Quote:
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Something like this?
Yes. Here's my take on it. It needs more at the top/bottom to be less panoramic. I modified levels and contrast, color correction, and leveling/distortion correction.

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That said, I think that you still had quite a bit of room to move further left.

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Old 11-30-2016, 05:28 PM   #16
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Doug's take is ok, but for RP a 1.8:1 format is unlikely to be accepted. That's even wider than 5:3!

Also, waay oversharpened. But then Doug did not start with an original file.
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Old 11-30-2016, 05:42 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRMDC View Post
Doug's take is ok, but for RP a 1.8:1 format is unlikely to be accepted. That's even wider than 5:3!

Also, waay oversharpened. But then Doug did not start with an original file.
The oversharpening is my fault - I started with a preset and forgot to undo the sharpening settings. I agree that a better aspect ratio is needed, although my wording may not have been clear.

Here is my edit with sharpening removed.

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Old 11-30-2016, 06:09 PM   #18
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Unfortunately that is as far left as I have, in terms of including the feed mill in the background. I did a quick crop on the pic that Doug has edited and here is the original non cropped. If you want the actual file to work with, let me know where to send/email it.
I appreciate all the tips and suggestions here as it has been very educational.
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Old 11-30-2016, 06:18 PM   #19
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Yes, kind of interesting thread.

You did not say if that is your P/U truck, kind of an odd spot for just anyone to leave one. If is yours lesson I think everyone has learned.

I worked with Doug's as I didn't see the original and don't want to start over. this is a quick version. Smile

I might note if you had a shot with the train closer then the truck and P/U would be less prominent and there would be more green foreground.

Bob
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Old 11-30-2016, 06:32 PM   #20
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Yes, kind of interesting thread.

You did not say if that is your P/U truck, kind of an odd spot for just anyone to leave one. If is yours lesson I think everyone has learned.

I worked with Doug's as I didn't see the original and don't want to start over. this is a quick version. Smile

I might note if you had a shot with the train closer then the truck and P/U would be less prominent and there would be more green foreground.

Bob
Nice edit! No its not my Pickup and I edited it out on the submitted pic. I learned that the hard way ONCE and the reason I didnt shoot any wider than the pic I attached is the rest of the Parking lot was full with the bushiness employees, my car and other railfanner's. Anything other than a Dash 9 in this town is like new toys on Christmas day
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Old 11-30-2016, 06:42 PM   #21
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The oversharpening is my fault - I started with a preset and forgot to undo the sharpening settings.
I am usually more direct but for some reason this morning I chose not to say that you mucked it up. I presumed that you had done a "standard" sharpening to an already-sharpened image.
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Old 11-30-2016, 07:30 PM   #22
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Given the full frame, my crop is just a little looser than Bob's, and otherwise very similar. My cloning skills are not as fast or as good as his, so I didn't attempt the magic disappearing pickup trick.

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Old 11-30-2016, 07:40 PM   #23
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I think the truck should stay, it's a space filler in an image that needs it.

The sky is too plain to be given as much space as it is getting.
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Old 11-30-2016, 07:44 PM   #24
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Quote:
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...My cloning skills are not as fast or as good as his, so I didn't attempt the magic disappearing pickup trick.

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Thanks again I might give this perspective/angle a try . Erasing an object of that size is no easy task, Unless this is a new reason/subject to continue this educational thread. I'm all ears
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Old 11-30-2016, 09:04 PM   #25
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I like that also, I only removed the P/U for fun, even if you wanted to after it is known to be there would be an no-no? Further back perspective limits the truck so it does not compete so much with the train. Good luck, I am a little surprised how often these ones bantered around end up accepted.

Bob
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