Old 07-12-2007, 10:44 AM   #1
Hellbelly
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Default Wedgie?

Could someone please explain what this is? Is it a type of shot or a type of person shooting a shot?

Cheers.....HB.
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Old 07-12-2007, 11:59 AM   #2
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Here's an atomic wedgie.


Just kidding. The wedgie is nothing more than the angle you take the shot and the angle is in the shape of a wedge.
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Old 07-12-2007, 01:42 PM   #3
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Cute, Warren!

Here's an answer that's a bit more comprehensive, I hope. One personal take on it, since there is no formal definition. A wedgie is a shot where the angle of photographer to the train is what I will call a 3/4 shot (where did that term come from?), neither a head-on shot nor a broadside shot, but one that shows both the nose and the side of the train. sort of 45 degrees to the path of the train, more or less.

But there are other criteria. For example, the shot has to be one where the train is the predominant element. So you could take a landscape type shot where there is a train shown at the 3/4 angle, but no one would call it a wedgie because the train is just an element of a larger composition and not the dominant or only part.

Also, the more the train is coming in a straight line, the more I think of it as a wedgie. If it is rounding a curve, for example, and you can see the engine in the foreground and then the train behind it, but one sees the opposite side of the train and not the same side as the lead engine, then that is not a wedgie. The following isn't quite what I mean, because the engine is too much head-on, but I hope you can get a sense of what I am trying to say.
Image © Janusz Mrozek
PhotoID: 176685
Photograph © Janusz Mrozek


Also, there are more and less interesting wedgies. Some wedgies are just a train with nothing else going on in the shot. But you can add some interesting trackside detail to a shot to make a wedgie a bit more interesting:
Image © Janusz Mrozek
PhotoID: 176461
Photograph © Janusz Mrozek

Image © Janusz Mrozek
PhotoID: 176146
Photograph © Janusz Mrozek


Note that these are also shots where the train, while still by far the most important part of the shot, shares space in the image with its surroundings. The more one heads in that direction, the farther one moves from the shot being a wedgie.

So a wedgie is a broad category. But ultimately, it starts out with the classic angle at which you get a shot if you are standing trackside and take a snapshot of a train approaching your position.

This shot is probably the most wedgie-ish shot I have at RP.
Image © Janusz Mrozek
PhotoID: 168995
Photograph © Janusz Mrozek
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Old 07-12-2007, 02:56 PM   #4
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This here is a classic wedgie shot:

Image ©
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Old 07-12-2007, 03:52 PM   #5
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That last one looks a bit more like a "Flying Wedgie" to me...basically, a wedge shot is, like said, when the train looks like a wedge. It's what you get when you point a standard zoom (~50mm) lens at a train from a grade crossing! Basically the easiest shot to get of a train.
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Old 07-12-2007, 11:42 PM   #6
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Ok, how about this one.

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Old 07-13-2007, 01:03 AM   #7
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Perfect, a textbook example!
I'm sure we've all been guilty of the "sin" of taking a wedge shot multiple times before!
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Old 07-13-2007, 03:08 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trainboysd40
Perfect, a textbook example!
I'm sure we've all been guilty of the "sin" of taking a wedge shot multiple times before!
Don't be ridiculous, it's not a SIN! Like I said in another thread, a photographer who doesn't take wedgies is either a hypocrite or doesn't take many pictures. Wedgies are the bread and butter of rail photography...and always will be.
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Old 07-13-2007, 03:42 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ken45
Wedgies are the bread and butter of rail photography...and always will be.
Well, yes, but fine restaurants don't maintain their reputation on bread and butter, either! (Aside: it always surprises me when a good restaurant puts out blah bread and refrigerator-hard butter to start a meal.)

Now, a baguette, some soft cheese, a sliced tomato, and a glass of wine, that's eating! I think I can say that I am at the bread and butter level and trying to get my photography to the baguette/cheese/tomato level, leaving the photographic equivalent of high cuisine to down the road if ever.
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Old 07-13-2007, 07:54 PM   #10
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This bread and butter thing has turned into a better metaphor than I would have expected! It's true, some bread and butter is superior to others. For instance, I have a couple wegdies on here that I'd consider to be above the wedge shot average, and I have some lying around my drive that I wouldn't DREAM of submitting!
Image © Matthew Hicks
PhotoID: 193455
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Image © Matthew Hicks
PhotoID: 188426
Photograph © Matthew Hicks

These two are textbook wedgiesm but because of background I like to think that they're superior to the usual grade crossing shot in the city stuff!
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Old 07-13-2007, 08:46 PM   #11
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These are nice photos, but I'm surprised they weren't rejected for "distracting shadows" and/or "cloudy/common power". Were they appealed and then accepted? Just wondering!
Image © Janusz Mrozek
PhotoID: 168995
Photograph © Janusz Mrozek

Image © Janusz Mrozek
PhotoID: 176461
Photograph © Janusz Mrozek

Image © Janusz Mrozek
PhotoID: 176146
Photograph © Janusz Mrozek

Image © Janusz Mrozek
PhotoID: 176685
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Old 07-13-2007, 09:10 PM   #12
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J, you're being called out!
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Old 07-13-2007, 09:14 PM   #13
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Like I have any clue! More seriously, like I have any clue! Well, I think the general answer is that they have something to offer.

First one: dunno, ok scene, train approaching a signal, so sort of a story to the shot, the (pushing) power is well lit with warm dusk light, makes up for the shadow over the middle of the train (no chance for acceptance if it is over the power). I personally find the on/off look of shadow/no shadow interesting, although it certainly isn't what RP is typically looking for.

Second: in general, I think, snow and overcast work together. Certainly CP/CN red and snow work together great! Decent composition, and the colors in the switchstand make for an interesting contrast with the red power. All of this good enough to make up for the sky. That's my guess.

Third: sky is not a dominant element of the shot, covered over partially by the bridge and by the hill. Strong colors, interesting perspective, signals stand out nicely although in the background. Again, snow and overcast together can work.

Fourth: as I recall it, accepted on appeal after I made the argument that the shadows were an inherent part of the scene and were prevalent through that section of track - just look at the shadows in the foreground. In general, a fair amount of the CSX Met sub is bordered by trees, some day it seems like all of it!, and it can be a pain to shoot in at times. Nice composition, interesting trackwork, I show the track that defines the (former) junction.

I guess I would say that all of these shots have something in them that makes them more than just a plain wedgie, something that makes the lighting issues secondary rather than primary. If any of these were a plain wedgie, they would be kicked out.

But hey, I'm not a screener. I shot them, I liked the way they turned out, I submitted them, they were accepted. Sometimes the first three statments in the previous sentence are true but they get rejected.
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Old 07-13-2007, 09:14 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ween
J, you're being called out!
But I am not worthy!

EDIT: that's what I get for making a strong definitional post, I get asked why I can't meet my own standard!
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Old 07-13-2007, 11:42 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRMDC
First one: dunno, ok scene, train approaching a signal, so sort of a story to the shot, the (pushing) power is well lit with warm dusk light, makes up for the shadow over the middle of the train (no chance for acceptance if it is over the power). I personally find the on/off look of shadow/no shadow interesting, although it certainly isn't what RP is typically looking for.

Second: in general, I think, snow and overcast work together. Certainly CP/CN red and snow work together great! Decent composition, and the colors in the switchstand make for an interesting contrast with the red power. All of this good enough to make up for the sky. That's my guess.

Third: sky is not a dominant element of the shot, covered over partially by the bridge and by the hill. Strong colors, interesting perspective, signals stand out nicely although in the background. Again, snow and overcast together can work.

Fourth: as I recall it, accepted on appeal after I made the argument that the shadows were an inherent part of the scene and were prevalent through that section of track - just look at the shadows in the foreground. In general, a fair amount of the CSX Met sub is bordered by trees, some day it seems like all of it!, and it can be a pain to shoot in at times. Nice composition, interesting trackwork, I show the track that defines the (former) junction.

I guess I would say that all of these shots have something in them that makes them more than just a plain wedgie, something that makes the lighting issues secondary rather than primary. If any of these were a plain wedgie, they would be kicked out.

But hey, I'm not a screener. I shot them, I liked the way they turned out, I submitted them, they were accepted. Sometimes the first three statments in the previous sentence are true but they get rejected.
That's cool, it's just that I never had much luck getting photos similar to those accepted in the past. Don't get me wrong, I have great respect for your photos, but I really don't like the big shadow right in the middle of the train on the first one. It's goes directly against the site's "distracting shadows" rejection. I'm really surprised it made it in, but that's really here nor there.

The CP one is cool even though it is cloudy, because the red locomotive stands out in my eyes. I also like the framing. However, in the CSX cloudy shot, I can't see how just adding a couple bridges can get a cloudy/common power shot accepted. I personally never had much luck with that. Cloudy was cloudy, no matter what. I also have to disagree about the vibrancy of the colors in that one. They're dull! I will grant you that it's a somewhat interesting perspective, (I repeat, somewhat, I've seen overpasses before), but I'm sure there are hundreds of thousands of other similar submissions from other photogs that got canned.

Finally, the last CSX one works for me personally and I don't have a problem with the shadows in it, though I've seen other similar shots get rejected. I understand that's not your fault; I'm just pointing out something I've noticed before.

Thanks for sharing your photos!
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Old 07-14-2007, 12:39 AM   #16
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First of all, I'm not being defensive...

Regarding the Amtrak California, I don't know!

Regarding CP red, thanks!

Regrading CSX snow, I've got a bit more to say. Note the strong perception of depth created by the signal bridge being behind the overpass, and that the signal bridge is nested underneath the overpass, and the eye is drawn to the signal bridge more than to background elements in most images, because of the three pairs of reds. This picture has a much stronger sense of background than the usual wedgie, and thus a stronger sense of depth. Add to that the lower than usual view, I am kneeling and the camera is at the level of the rail of the train, and you've got something more than a wedgie, well worth the overcast (in between snowfalls, actually). The colors are not strong, they are not saturated for sure, but the yellow nose and other engines, the red boxcars and signals, and the brown rails are nicely complementary. It's a warm feel, especially for a snow shot.

Regarding CSX in shadows, I've nothing to add. Maybe it's one that got in that should not have, but I like it!
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Old 07-14-2007, 02:51 AM   #17
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What can I say to those, but CP red gets on here on cloudy days in winter! I have about 8 completely overcast shots from winter and a couple more taken after the sun set!
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Old 07-14-2007, 12:25 PM   #18
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To me

Image © Janusz Mrozek
PhotoID: 176146
Photograph © Janusz Mrozek


is a great shot. If I remember, this was one that had to be appealed and I think you started a thread on it here in the forums. I think it's a perfect snowy wedgie. There has to be a difference granted in common cloudy days and snow cloudy days, too, don't you think?


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Old 07-14-2007, 02:48 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe the Photog
I think it's a perfect snowy wedgie. There has to be a difference granted in common cloudy days and snow cloudy days, too, don't you think?

Joe
I would agree that it is a very nicely done winter scene. I live in Northern Ohio near Lake Erie. If I waited only for nice sunny days from November to April to photograph trains I would seldom get to take the camera out of the bag!

We have all seen pictures accepted here that are of rather common power that is slightly sidelit or backlit enough so that they do not have full light on the nose. Clearly there is something about the shot that is visually compelling enough for the screener to make allowances for the nose lighting. I for one would like to see more of that, but that's just me. Similarly, there must be other things for the screeners to consider in winter scenes besides whether or not the sky is blue.

Winter is a generally cold, dark, snowy, overcast time of year in much of the US for example. Certainly I would think as Joe says that the screeners take a bit of a different look at pix submitted in winter. I hope so or I won't have much to submit in a few months!
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Old 07-17-2007, 11:36 AM   #20
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OK, so it seems I'm a real newbie and massive Wedgie shooter right now. Thanks guys for the answers and the debate really has been good reading. I'm going to try get another Wedgie shot this weekend (couldnt last weekend, was fishing). Sunny and 17 degree C so could be good.

Thanks again..........HB.
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Old 07-17-2007, 01:20 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trainboysd40
This bread and butter thing has turned into a better metaphor than I would have expected! It's true, some bread and butter is superior to others. For instance, I have a couple wegdies on here that I'd consider to be above the wedge shot average, and I have some lying around my drive that I wouldn't DREAM of submitting!
Image © Matthew Hicks
PhotoID: 188426
Photograph © Matthew Hicks
Holy crap, that shot reminded me of one of my favorites on this site...and it's yours, too!

Image © Matthew Hicks
PhotoID: 178093
Photograph © Matthew Hicks


Matthew, I hope you don't mind, but there was one thing bugging me about your image that I felt the urge to "fix." It just seemed a little unlevel to me, so I did a quick levelling:



(I have not used your photo for anything...I only uploaded to my photobucket account to display the change I made. I hope you don't mind).

Anyway, with that image being level, I would LOVE to have a print of it. Do you sell any of your images?
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Old 07-17-2007, 02:15 PM   #22
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while we are looking at this picture

Image © Matthew Hicks
PhotoID: 178093
Photograph © Matthew Hicks



does the sky looked like it was cropped in? there are some unusual white markes around the edges of the mountains that look suspeciously like "eraser" markes.

Whats other peoples thoughts?
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Old 07-17-2007, 04:17 PM   #23
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I agree that those white marks are unusual looking. The ones on the mountain on the right side of the photo look especially wierd. Not sure if this from eraser marks or odd snow drifts.
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Old 07-17-2007, 05:26 PM   #24
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That is definitely snow.

Matthew, sorry that your image is being scrutinized like this, I didn't mean for that to happen.
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Old 07-17-2007, 05:41 PM   #25
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While some of the marks at the edge of the mountain and the sky seem a bit suspicious, this photo is legit, IMO. For one, the angle of the sun on the train matches up with the sky in the photograph. Secondly, if you wanted to put a new sky in a picture, why would you pick that particular sky? Wouldn't you want one with nice puffy clouds which are more aesthetically pleasing? Finally, at the far left is a leaf-less tree poking into the sky, which has certainly not been cropped out of one photo and then pasted onto another. Besides, it would be a shame for such a great picture to have been doctored.
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