Old 12-01-2012, 05:06 PM   #26
Ron Flanary
Senior Member
 
Ron Flanary's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Big Stone Gap, VA
Posts: 1,327
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cblaz View Post
...John Ryan, John West, Mitch Goldman, David Honan, Michael F. Allen, Gary Knapp, Jean-Marc Frybourg, Alan-Crotty, Alex Ramos, Andrew Blaszczyk, Cinderpath, Dave Kerr, James Belmont, John Rice, Ken Kuehne, Matthew Hicks, Michael Biehn, Robert Palmer, Ryan Parent, Steve Carter, Steve Schmollinger and Travis Dewitz....
There are some fantastic photographers in this list, and I would guess that many of them just walked away from RP.net. Consequently, we're all poorer since they no longer share their images here.

I just see RP.net differently than many of you. Many excellent photographers are willing to publicly share their images on line...here. RP.net should be grateful, not judgmental! However, I know that those same excellent photographers simply will not continue to hang around when the shots they have selected, scanned (if an old image), cleaned up if necessary, written a well composed caption and uploaded are then rejected for spurious reasons. Again, I can readily accept a rejection for some technical reason---but it's entirely subjective, then that crosses the Rubicon into the realm of an insult. Am I a better judge of my own photography than an RP.net screener? Yes sir. I think you'll find that to be true of most anyone who has grained a spec of creditability in this avocation.

I would submit that there is no "right" way to do train photography. One has to maintain an open mind to new forms of expression in imagery. Before you heap a pile of disagreement on my head, that doesn't mean every image deserves to be accepted here. RP.net is mostly a display of the conventional forms of railroad photography. It sometimes accepts images that stretch convention, but not often. And, if that's the goal---then that's fine and dandy. It's "their" site, not mine.
Ron Flanary is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2012, 05:15 PM   #27
JRMDC
Senior Member
 
JRMDC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 11,202
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Watain View Post
In my masochistic opinion I feel that for those who pay for the membership should get more detailed information during the screening process, it would be so much better in my opinion, than going back and forth with them constantly submitting the same photo 10 or 15 times trying to correct a problem. Like a comment box where the screener can voice their own opinion either in the email or in the reject link itself.. The screening process would probably take longer, but I believe it would relieve some confusion, and frustration.
I very much like the idea of premium screening for premium membership.
__________________
My RP pix are here.
My Flickr pix are here.

My commentaries on rail pictures are in my blog.

RP Photo Albums:
Cabooses
Engine Details
Farm and Train
Plumes!
Railroad Details
Signal Details
Switchstand Shots
JRMDC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2012, 06:34 PM   #28
PLEzero
Senior Member
 
PLEzero's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Pittsburgh,PA
Posts: 675
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cblaz View Post

The PotW award has been around the longest, and is picked by the administrators of the site. Therefore, you would think keeping around the contributors that constantly provided quality images would be important, but most of the names on that list are former posters, not current ones. Sure, as Todd stated earlier, some members drop off and new ones come aboard and the big machine rolls on, but is it better?
That's why I still upload photos from time to time. I figure if enough of the 'quality guys' leave, my turds will eventually float to the top
__________________
Brad Morocco
Candyland, PA
My Flickr Photos
My RP.net Photos
PLEzero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2012, 01:16 AM   #29
jnohallman
Senior Member
 
jnohallman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,527
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cblaz View Post
As many have said before on this forum, it seems like the prevailing attitude is if you don't like the way RP works, take your ball, go home and don't let the door hit you when you leave. Just peruse the list of most Photo of the Week recipients I compiled in February:

John Ryan, John West, Mitch Goldman, David Honan, Michael F. Allen, Gary Knapp, Jean-Marc Frybourg, Alan-Crotty, Alex Ramos, Andrew Blaszczyk, Cinderpath, Dave Kerr, James Belmont, John Rice, Ken Kuehne, Matthew Hicks, Michael Biehn, Robert Palmer, Ryan Parent, Steve Carter, Steve Schmollinger and Travis Dewitz.

The PotW award has been around the longest, and is picked by the administrators of the site. Therefore, you would think keeping around the contributors that constantly provided quality images would be important, but most of the names on that list are former posters, not current ones.
- Chris
Ron Flanaray responded
Quote:
There are some fantastic photographers in this list, and I would guess that many of them just walked away from RP.net. Consequently, we're all poorer since they no longer share their images here.
All of this would make me very sad, if it were true. I just went and looked to see when each of the people listed last had a picture added to the database. Out of 22 photographers on Chris' list, 16 have posted photos in 2012, 13 in the last 2 months, 8 in the last month, 5 of them in the last week. That hardly counts as "most of them" being former posters. Now, one could argue that a 27% loss rate, which is what it amounts to, is not good - but that's out of these names chosen from a very select pool, and spread over 5 years. Dave Kerr's last post was in May of 2007, for example. And we're assuming that the people who don't post any more did so out of disgust with RP as opposed to for some other reason. I'm not sure that's viable.

Now, that doesn't mean that there isn't room for improvement in the way RP does things, or that we as members of the RP community should stop pushing for improvements. But I'm not convinced that RP as it is has driven away that many really good photographers - and it has certainly attracted some (the Danneman brothers, for instance). It does, by it's methods, tend to weed out the chaff, however - like a certain rodent we all know and love to hate.

Jon
__________________
"Everybody talks about the weather, but nobody does anything about it." - Mark Twain

Click here to see my photos on RP.net!

Do not, under any circumstances whatsoever, click here. Don't even think about it. I'm warning you!
jnohallman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2012, 02:01 AM   #30
Ron Flanary
Senior Member
 
Ron Flanary's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Big Stone Gap, VA
Posts: 1,327
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jnohallman View Post
Now, that doesn't mean that there isn't room for improvement in the way RP does things, or that we as members of the RP community should stop pushing for improvements. But I'm not convinced that RP as it is has driven away that many really good photographers - and it has certainly attracted some (the Danneman brothers, for instance). It does, by it's methods, tend to weed out the chaff, however - like a certain rodent we all know and love to hate.

Jon
I just assumed most (but not all) of those folks were no longer actively posting photos (stated differently: I didn't independently verify as you did). And we certainly have no idea why some of those people no longer post their images here. Perhaps some are even deceased. That happens.

If you go back far enough, you'll find some contributing photographers in the early days of RP.net haven't been heard from in years. Who knows why?

I think I explained why the Danneman brothers began posting during another conversation here (on another topic). It concerns them hearing Chris Starnes' presentation on RP.net at Lake Forest last year and then deciding to join the fun. The site has been all the better since Mike and Tom began sharing their images with us. I hope there will be others.
Ron Flanary is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2012, 03:21 AM   #31
JimThias
Senior Member
 
JimThias's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 9,843
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRMDC View Post
"votes as the current system can handle" is close enough to "poll" in my book! Sort of like getting within 0.05 degrees of perfect level.

Oh, wait, Jim, you just won't understand that.
Doesn't matter. My specific intent after reading Ron's post was to bring up the option of a poll system set up in a specific forum for that. It just happens that Mitch mentioned voting.
__________________
.
Rhymes with slice, rice and mice, and probably should be spelled like "Tice."

This pretty much sums it up: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Thias
JimThias is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2012, 03:39 AM   #32
JRMDC
Senior Member
 
JRMDC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 11,202
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimThias View Post
Doesn't matter. My specific intent after reading Ron's post was to bring up the option of a poll system set up in a specific forum for that. It just happens that Mitch mentioned voting.
I have read the original, Mitch's response, your rebuttal, my comment, your rebuttal, and ...

nope, not buying your latest. Mitch brought up the point, you missed it, or ignored it, or perhaps you even subconsciously borrowed it!
__________________
My RP pix are here.
My Flickr pix are here.

My commentaries on rail pictures are in my blog.

RP Photo Albums:
Cabooses
Engine Details
Farm and Train
Plumes!
Railroad Details
Signal Details
Switchstand Shots
JRMDC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2012, 03:41 AM   #33
JimThias
Senior Member
 
JimThias's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 9,843
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRMDC View Post
I have read the original, Mitch's response, your rebuttal, my comment, your rebuttal, and ...

nope, not buying your latest. Mitch brought up the point, you missed it, or ignored it, or perhaps you even subconsciously borrowed it!
How could I borrow something I hadn't even read yet? That makes no sense. You know, an "I'm glad someone else agrees with me" post would have sufficed initially.
__________________
.
Rhymes with slice, rice and mice, and probably should be spelled like "Tice."

This pretty much sums it up: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Thias
JimThias is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2012, 07:03 AM   #34
sd9
Senior Member
 
sd9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 799
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mgoldman View Post
Or... admin could just lighten up.

/Mitch
I'm not so sure if it's a matter of just lightening up, but rather take a little more time on the evaluation of the photo. The next time you have a photo in the queue, (and your on the member submit page with the queue totals) and they start screening them, just keep hitting refresh and watch how fast they go through them, it's impossible to evaluate a photo that quick. And then there's the whole multiple rejection reasons they come up with each time you resubmit, that's another story
I know there will be the people who say, they have a lot of photos to review and they..blah, blah blah,
sd9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2012, 10:21 AM   #35
Holloran Grade
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: In the California Republic
Posts: 2,774
Exclamation

Pay no attention to the man behind the green curtain.........
Holloran Grade is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2012, 04:13 PM   #36
cblaz
Senior Member
 
cblaz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Marlboro, New Jersey
Posts: 1,007
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jnohallman View Post
All of this would make me very sad, if it were true. I just went and looked to see when each of the people listed last had a picture added to the database. Out of 22 photographers on Chris' list, 16 have posted photos in 2012, 13 in the last 2 months, 8 in the last month, 5 of them in the last week. That hardly counts as "most of them" being former posters. Now, one could argue that a 27% loss rate, which is what it amounts to, is not good - but that's out of these names chosen from a very select pool, and spread over 5 years.
Jon is right, I took the list of Photo of the Week winners from this thread I made in January and did not look everyone up like I should have. I chose the PotW because it is given out at a consistent rate and has been a feature of the site the longest. The numbers of PCA or Screener's Choice winners would skew toward newer (and current) posters.

However, Jon's post made me go back and look each photographer. His numbers are mostly correct, but there's more to the story. The 22 photographers divide nicely into 3 groups:

The consistent posters:
James Belmont (3638 total photos on RP) 500+ since July 2012
Steve Schmollinger (3407 total) 200+ since June 2012
Jean-Marc Frybourg (1930 total) 100+ since June 2012
Mitch Goldman (1162 total) 100+ since June 2012
Andrew Blaszczyk (1770 total) 80+ in the last 12 months
Travis Dewitz (686 total) 75+ in the last 12 months
Travis's numbers are an anomaly though, as he added 51 photos just between Sept. 3 and Sept. 10, and 1 since then.

The sporadic posters:
Michael Biehn (1021 total) 60 in the last 12 months
John West (471 total) 50+ in last 12 months
David Honan (278 total) 50 in the last 12 months
John Rice (1134 total) 40 in the last 12 months
Ken Kuehne (276 total) 30+ in the last 12 months
Gary Knapp (214 total) 16 in the last 12 months

For these 6 photographers, their average posting rate is about 4 photos a month, or lower.

The few and far between, or completely gone group:
Steve Carter (222 total) 9 in the last 12 months, 20 since January 2011
Matthew Hicks (306 total) 5 in the last 12 months, 3 won PCAs
John Ryan (509 total) 3 in last 12 months, 9 since January 2011 4 of the 9 were award winners
Ryan Parent (576 total) 1 in October 2012, 8 in 2011
Cinderpath (24 total) 1 in the last 12 months, 3 since 2009, 2 PotWs
Alex Ramos (379 total) None since November 2011, 3 total in 2011
Alan-Crotty (319 total) None since October 2010
Robert Palmer (358 total) None since November 2009
Michael F. Allen (330 total) None since July 2009
Dave Kerr (515 total) None since May 2007

There have actually been 17 photographers from this list that posted in the last 12 months. However, 5 of the 17 have posted a total of 19 shots over that timeframe. Out of those 19 shots, 7 won awards, a 37% success rate.

This isn't just a random group of contributors I'm highlighting; every photographer listed, save one, has posted at least 200 shots to RP, putting them in the top 400 of over 5,000 contributors. They know what it takes to get a photo through the screening process. Isn't it RP's job to encourage photographers like this to post and to keep them posting at a high rate, so it doesn't just become a site of mindlessly wedgies?

- Chris
__________________
- Christopher Blaszczyk
My shots on RP: http://www.railpictures.net/showphotos.php?userid=284
cblaz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2012, 04:39 PM   #37
jnohallman
Senior Member
 
jnohallman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,527
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimThias View Post
Doesn't matter. My specific intent after reading Ron's post was to bring up the option of a poll system set up in a specific forum for that. It just happens that Mitch mentioned voting.
I read what Jim and Mitch wrote as saying two different things, although you could decide to use the poll in place of voting. Mitch was specifically suggesting that a vote be used to decide whether a rejected photo get on after all. I read what Jim initially wrote as a means of seeing how many people thought the photo should have gotten on - not as an automatic "if enough people approve in a poll it gets in" statement, although I suppose it could be that. Heck, I might just use the poll feature in the future to see how many people think my rejected shots really suck.

Jon
__________________
"Everybody talks about the weather, but nobody does anything about it." - Mark Twain

Click here to see my photos on RP.net!

Do not, under any circumstances whatsoever, click here. Don't even think about it. I'm warning you!
jnohallman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2012, 11:18 PM   #38
Ron Flanary
Senior Member
 
Ron Flanary's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Big Stone Gap, VA
Posts: 1,327
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sd9 View Post
...The next time you have a photo in the queue, (and your on the member submit page with the queue totals) and they start screening them, just keep hitting refresh and watch how fast they go through them, it's impossible to evaluate a photo that quick....
That's very true. They go through images like a dose of salts through a widow woman.

However---I can evaluate a photo instantly based on its composition, lighting, etc. But, it takes a little more time and effort to make sure it isn't .378666578 degrees CW out of level.
Ron Flanary is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2012, 11:23 PM   #39
Holloran Grade
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: In the California Republic
Posts: 2,774
Lightbulb

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Flanary View Post
.........Again, I can readily accept a rejection for some technical reason---but it's entirely subjective, then that crosses the Rubicon into the realm of an insult. Am I a better judge of my own photography than an RP.net screener? Yes sir. I think you'll find that to be true of most anyone who has grained a spec of credibility in this avocation.......
First off, I agree with your position, but in reality a person sometimes has to work with a client, or an editor that doesn't really know what they want, or what they want keeps changing, or the person(s) are just completely crazy.

Sure, I submit stuff to this site and many times they don't take it - because I could submit wedgies all day long, but they don't really interest me.

Sometimes I change the image to get it in if the bulk of my intent as an artist can remain intact, otherwise I just give up and put the image else where.

It is this occurrence that I think is too bad, because I can't be the only person that is doing that and I wonder what "we" are collectively missing out on.

What I fear is that the selective screening process and the popularity of RP as a site, is going to actually change the way people take, and view RR pictures the same as selective breeding has changed the way corn looks and tastes.
Holloran Grade is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 05:48 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.