Old 04-20-2010, 05:32 AM   #1
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http://www.railpictures.net/viewreje...key=1131911861

Appeal reason:

Quote:
You initially rejected this photo for bad cropping. You said nothing about the focus. In fact, the photo is in perfect focus. I verified this by enlarging the RAW file. The distorted area above the locomotive has nothing to do with focus. It is, in fact, the result of the hot exhaust fan air rising above the locomotive and distorting light wave transmission. The same optical distortion occurs on a hot summer day when heat rises above a sidewalk. In this case, the camera saw exactly what my eyes saw.


That's seven sentences of justification as to why this photo is perfectly sharp. It's all written, I fully admit, in a respectful, seemingly knowledgeable tone. Now I'm going to look like the meanie when I have to reject his appeal and tell him that there is absolutely nothing sharp or "in focus" about his photo.


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Old 04-20-2010, 05:37 AM   #2
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I hear they make trifocals these days...
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Old 04-20-2010, 06:09 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Kilroy View Post
http://www.railpictures.net/viewreje...key=1131911861

Appeal reason:



That's seven sentences of justification as to why this photo is perfectly sharp. It's all written, I fully admit, in a respectful, seemingly knowledgeable tone. Now I'm going to look like the meanie when I have to reject his appeal and tell him that there is absolutely nothing sharp or "in focus" about his photo.


[/size][/font]
My condolences, Chris.

It's clearly soft, surprised he didn't notice it and attempt to at least show some effort in correcting the softness.

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Old 04-20-2010, 07:02 AM   #4
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You have to remember Chris, a good number of people submit photos knowing you will reject them simply in order to whine about it when they are rejected - I need not link to one of the hundreds of forum threads, groups, etc. proclaiming how Railpictures.net is operated by Satan himself. You're never going to make these people happy since they're coming in from the start looking for conflict, hence I wouldn't feel too guilty about looking like a "meanie."

For established members here and/or those who show they truly want to improve upon their skills, that's a whole 'nother story, as the comments will be well-received and valued by the photographer in question. Of course, a lot of this can be resolved in the forums as well (as you have previously suggested as a preferred alternative to appealing and asking for more information on a rejection, something I admit I am guilty of).

And as for the shot itself, yes it is soft (looks like heat distortion), and yes the cropping is terrible. Hell, you could even link him to this thread to show him that you're not the only one making these observations (or perhaps that you're not the only meanie with high standards around here).
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Old 04-20-2010, 11:06 AM   #5
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May just be new to processing photos to and needs to be told all shots needs to be sharped. I say how its handled makes or brakes RP for him. He knows why its soft but why didn't he fix it?
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Old 04-20-2010, 11:29 AM   #6
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Simply put Richard, some people just won't or don't want to get it and want to put up a fight about something ALLLLLLL the time.

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Old 04-20-2010, 12:27 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by asis80 View Post
Simply put Richard, some people just won't or don't want to get it and want to put up a fight about something ALLLLLLL the time.

Ben
Maybe Ben, Yes its sharp or would bin if heat waves didn't get it?
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Old 04-20-2010, 01:11 PM   #8
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Given that he only has 2 on the site I'd be willing to error on the side of his simply not understanding what sharpness means with respect to pictures accepted by you. The reason for saying this is I was in exactly the same position when I first submitted pictures. In my case I didn't ask for appeal rather I went to the data base and looked for pictures taken under similar lighting conditions. Even with all of the evidence in front of me it did take a bit of time for my eyes to recalibrate and my mind to redefine the word "sharpness".

As a nod to your efforts - when I look at what I considered to be my best train pictures before I had heard of, or tried submitting pictures, to Railpictures and when I look at what I have done since I can't believe the improvements.

From time to time I show some of my Railpictures successes to co-workers. Recently one of them, who has a friend who does fine art photography, told me this friend had taken some train pictures and had put together a small exhibition of the work. She's usually quite enthusiastic about this persons efforts but when she told me about the exhibit she said, "It was OK but the pictures weren't anything like yours, they were just pictures of trains."

...hopefully your critique will help him improve his pictures too.
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Old 04-20-2010, 01:39 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mersenne6 View Post
Given that he only has 2 on the site I'd be willing to error on the side of his simply not understanding what sharpness means with respect to pictures accepted by you. The reason for saying this is I was in exactly the same position when I first submitted pictures. In my case I didn't ask for appeal rather I went to the data base and looked for pictures taken under similar lighting conditions. Even with all of the evidence in front of me it did take a bit of time for my eyes to recalibrate and my mind to redefine the word "sharpness".

As a nod to your efforts - when I look at what I considered to be my best train pictures before I had heard of, or tried submitting pictures, to Railpictures and when I look at what I have done since I can't believe the improvements.

From time to time I show some of my Railpictures successes to co-workers. Recently one of them, who has a friend who does fine art photography, told me this friend had taken some train pictures and had put together a small exhibition of the work. She's usually quite enthusiastic about this persons efforts but when she told me about the exhibit she said, "It was OK but the pictures weren't anything like yours, they were just pictures of trains."

...hopefully your critique will help him improve his pictures too.
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Old 04-20-2010, 04:06 PM   #10
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I submit photos knowing they will probably get rejected, but I am looking for a direction to go with the photo. The rejections are more of a learning tool for me, as I am totally clueless about all this new digital stuff. Sometimes there is nothing that can be done to get a scan of an older shot "right", but that is O.K., as I learn a little more each time. Thanks to the screeners for taking their own time to screen all the submissions each day, and actually taking time to give a reason for a rejection.

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Old 04-20-2010, 04:32 PM   #11
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I was going to pass by without saying anything, but then I looked at the exif:

Camera Model: NIKON D90
Focal Length: 180.0mm (35mm equivalent: 270mm)
Aperture: f/9.0
Exposure Time: 0.0003 s (1/4000)
ISO equiv: 1000
Exposure Bias: none

Nothing like the 1/10shutter speed rule, hey?
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Old 04-20-2010, 05:46 PM   #12
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I can see both sides of this discussion.

I suspect that being an Admin here is a lot like being a school teacher. Students come in the door pretty clueless and it can be somewhat rewarding to watch them grow and become proficient at a particular craft. Then the semester ends, those students move on and you start all over again with another clueless crowd. The cycle can get old. I realize that RP isn't supposed to be a school, but to constantly cultivate new talent, it sort of becomes one of necessity. It takes special folks to keep doing that over and over.

On the other hand, I can understand where our noob friend is coming from. We were all one at some point. Unfortunately, the noob doesn't know what he doesn't know, which would clearly make him pretty firm in his convictions. At least this noob wasn't belligerent about it. I think that all he needs is a strong recommendation to use the forums. Once he starts getting a greater variety of opinions, the light bulb may just come on and he'll realize the problem isn't RP. Hey, we all have knowledge gaps. Simply recognizing that fact puts one firmly on the path to success.
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Old 04-20-2010, 07:26 PM   #13
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In fact, the RAW file *might* be in "perfect focus" (although I doubt it) but he submitted a resized jpeg, in fact, not the RAW file. I do appreciate the lesson on heat distortion, esp. hot summer sidewalks!



Sometimes snarky is good.
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Old 04-21-2010, 12:43 AM   #14
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I find myself really biting my tougue over the comments some make about this site. Most people are just to ignorant to 1.Listen to the screener, 2.Take a photoshop course, 3. Ask a question on the forum for which many talented people on here take the time to help the person out. Instead they just want to bitch and bash. Its there loss if they want to be ignorant do not want to learn. I am always grateful for any help or comments that are received.
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Old 04-21-2010, 01:42 AM   #15
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To me this one doesn't seem like a shot for which to call some one out in public. I was expecting one of the bad ones. This one is close - just needs some sharpening, and the person doesn't understand that the heat/exhaust blur is obvious but the rest of the frame matters.

This can't be even close to the worst of the worst, the person is polite and has two shots on already. I have no idea what the person is like but I wouldn't be surprised, given the politeness I suppose, that they are open to correction. Seems like a case for a friendly screener's comment. I understand it is very hard to find time for those.
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Old 04-21-2010, 01:52 AM   #16
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I don't think this shot is that close to getting on, but there's certainly nothing wrong with his appeal remarks, at least tone-wise. It's just a matter of not knowing what he's seeing, which can certainly be learned over time.

I'm sure many of the remarks that pass by the screeners are far worse in tone, content, and grammar than what was put out as an example...
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Old 04-21-2010, 03:06 AM   #17
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Lightbulb Perhaps his monitor is set to 600 x 800.

I am somewhat amazed that there is absolutely no part of that image that is actually in focus.

Usually with an auto focus camera, at least some spot should be in focus.

He could tweak it pretty easily if he were so inclined, but then I wonder about the clutter (cross buck) to the right?.

I wonder if he is seeing the image clearly at home because it is really off.

I also wonder why he said he was 3 miles below Cajon Junction at Blue Cut, when it appears he is standing on the grade crossing at Swartout Road.

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Old 04-21-2010, 03:56 AM   #18
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I am new to the site and have not had a image accepted yet, but felt compelled to respond to this post. Regardless of the submitters reasoning for the appeal it seemed to be in a polite and respectful tone. I do not understand of the point of the original post. Publicly reprimanding the submitter seems counterproductive to the spirit of the site and down right arrogant!
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Old 04-21-2010, 04:41 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by William Salee View Post
I am new to the site and have not had a image accepted yet, but felt compelled to respond to this post. Regardless of the submitters reasoning for the appeal it seemed to be in a polite and respectful tone. I do not understand of the point of the original post. Publicly reprimanding the submitter seems counterproductive to the spirit of the site and down right arrogant!
I don't think it was arrogant. If anything, he was showing us that when faced with someone who comes across sounding knowledgeable AND respectful, there is still some level of guilt associated with telling the person they are wrong (the "meanie" comment). I think it was more of just an exercise in showing us how being a screener sometimes can be a lose-lose situation. I could be completely wrong, though, but that's kind of what I got out of it.
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Old 04-21-2010, 05:09 AM   #20
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Hey in the guys defense, it can be frustrating. But that was just bad...
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Old 04-29-2010, 12:19 AM   #21
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The thing is, that some photographer's standards are higher than others, therefore some guys out there don't realize what a "good" quality shot is. I used to be one of those, I would use a point and shoot, and get a blurry shot with crap in the foreground, and two GEVOS tilted at a 45 degree angle in the upper right of the shot headed out of the picture, and I would submit it here, and feel angered when I got rejected, to the point where I lost my ability to appeal to the screeners (although I never ranted to anyone, or the forums here). As many here have assumed, this fellow may not just be looking for trouble, but rather not have a grasp on what it takes to get a decent shot of a train, and he thinks that there is unfairness in his rejection. I'm not taking any sides here, I'm just pointing out what may be the case. I went through this myself, so if this is the case, I know what's going on here. In my opinion, the only thing it takes is time and experience to get over it, as no matter how many other guys tried to convince me that I really didn't know what I was doing (in a nice way), I still took pride in my work until I started to learn, and take my rejections for all their worth. To sum it up, the key to Railpictures is to know where you stand with the expectations and standards of a good shot.
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Old 04-29-2010, 01:57 AM   #22
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This reminds me of the story of the 2 bulls. One would think that the mere thought over appealing a photo over "Modern power" in this regard, would draw a question. Nonetheless a Orange Gevo with 200 more on order. Now being the Old bull I am and this is their (RP) pasture. I know what side of the hill to walk down.

The photo below maybe worth appealing. But like the Old bull. What goes up must go down. I guess we will walk back up to the top of the hill and wait for her to come back South.

http://www.railpictures.net/viewreje...key=1066510037

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Old 04-29-2010, 02:00 AM   #23
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more sky and less grass and it's in easily.

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Old 04-29-2010, 02:06 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbassloyd View Post
more sky and less grass and it's in easily.

Loyd L.

Thats what this old Bull thought too...

http://www.railpictures.net/viewreje...&key=926090766
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Old 04-29-2010, 02:24 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cranky View Post
This reminds me of the story of the 2 bulls. One would think that the mere thought over appealing a photo over "Modern power" in this regard, would draw a question. Nonetheless a Orange Gevo with 200 more on order. Now being the Old bull I am and this is their (RP) pasture. I know what side of the hill to walk down.

The photo below maybe worth appealing. But like the Old bull. What goes up must go down. I guess we will walk back up to the top of the hill and wait for her to come back South.

http://www.railpictures.net/viewreje...key=1066510037

Cranky
I literally understood nothing in the post. Nice shot though.
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