Old 05-20-2009, 12:20 AM   #1
Mike Mautner
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Default Help with removing images from database!

Hello, I wish to remove 3 pictures from the database.This is at the request of another party.I have contacted the site admintistration and photo screeners both via e-mail thru this website.This was 4 hours ago and I have gotten no response.I really need this done, can anyone offer any help.
Thanks!
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Old 05-20-2009, 12:29 AM   #2
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You can't expect it to happen instantly. One of the two Chris's will usually take care of the request within 24 hours. If the photos have been up for a while, a few more hours isn't going to kill whomever has the issue(s).

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Old 05-20-2009, 12:53 AM   #3
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Thanks , the guy at the shop I took pictures at is getting alot of flack about these images being removed.
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Old 05-20-2009, 05:45 AM   #4
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Uhm.... they aren't his images. They're yours. Did you tell him you were going to post them on line?
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Old 05-20-2009, 07:40 PM   #5
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I don't know which photos you're talking about or what type of flack the person is getting, but this brings up a very good point. EVERYONE should be very careful when posting photos that show railroad employees.

This site is regularly monitored by the railroads. That is not some conspiracy-theory crap but a fact. Look at recent CSX and CP calendars. Many of the photos came as solicitation offers after the railroads saw the photos on this database. If they aren't monitoring the photos, then how did they find them? I'll admit that I know of no discipline that has resulted from a RailPix photo, but it could.

So before posting a photo that shows enough to clearly identify an employee, please stop and ask yourself this question: Would you want someone to take a photo of you at work and post it for your boss to see? Haven't we all had a mental lapse or two at work that we wouldn't want to see in public? So unless you are ABSOLUTELY sure that the employee isn't breaking any rules (safety glasses, ear plugs, etc...), please think twice before posting a photo that clearly identifies a railroad employee.
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Old 05-20-2009, 07:54 PM   #6
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I see your point, but...it's not my responsibility to know the rules of the railroad. If I'm not sure, I'll ask someone, but the responsibility lies with the person who's breaking the rules. If someone took a photo of me breaking a rule, guess what? I still broke a rule and I'm subject to the consequences regardless of the manner in which it was revealed to my boss. I understand the mental lapse argument as well, but if I run up on the sidewalk and run over a bunch of people, the "I had a mental lapse" excuse isn't going to cut it. Likewise, if I break a law I didn't know existed (like spitting in public or something), my ignorance isn't an excuse. It comes down to safety. If someone gets a talking to from their boss, guess what...that's less severe than someone getting injured from a rule violation...
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Old 05-20-2009, 08:09 PM   #7
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I see your point, but...it's not my responsibility to know the rules of the railroad. If I'm not sure, I'll ask someone, but the responsibility lies with the person who's breaking the rules. If someone took a photo of me breaking a rule, guess what? I still broke a rule and I'm subject to the consequences regardless of the manner in which it was revealed to my boss. I understand the mental lapse argument as well, but if I run up on the sidewalk and run over a bunch of people, the "I had a mental lapse" excuse isn't going to cut it. Likewise, if I break a law I didn't know existed (like spitting in public or something), my ignorance isn't an excuse. It comes down to safety. If someone gets a talking to from their boss, guess what...that's less severe than someone getting injured from a rule violation...
Your not grasping the point of BurghMan, I stand behind his comment 100%! His point was in general, not just with the rail industry. And yes, folk can ask you to remove photos. Just because joe-the-rail-employee says that it is okay to photograph on private property does not always make it okay. Even though trespassing and photographing while trespassing are totally different judicial matters, there is nothing wrong with someone asking to remove published photos.
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Old 05-20-2009, 08:24 PM   #8
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Your not grasping the point of BurghMan
Then explain it to me...
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Old 05-20-2009, 08:43 PM   #9
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Your not grasping the point of BurghMan, I stand behind his comment 100%! His point was in general, not just with the rail industry. And yes, folk can ask you to remove photos. Just because joe-the-rail-employee says that it is okay to photograph on private property does not always make it okay. Even though trespassing and photographing while trespassing are totally different judicial matters, there is nothing wrong with someone asking to remove published photos.

This post makes no sense. Obviously Ween wasn't talking about just the railroad industry either because a) he used himself, a non railroad employee, as an example and b) he used the example of running over somebody.

What he says is completely correct. While it would certainly go a long way to building a good relationship with whatever railroad you are shooting, it's not your responsibility to not post the photo, its the employee responsibility to not break the rules. Turn the lens the other way; if you saw somebody taking pictures in an unsafe manor on railroad property, would you (as an employee) not call it in because the railfan 'just had a lapse in judgement.' Of course not.

Second, I don't known the specific laws about a low level employee allowing you onto private property. I do know, even if you are trespassing without permission, the land owner has no right to take any pictures you have taken away from you (among other things). So by extension, I find it highly unlikely that you have to comply if somebody asks you to remove a picture online.
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Old 05-20-2009, 09:23 PM   #10
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Well, I still stand behind his comment 100%! Sorry, call me what you will but, I still do.

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Old 05-20-2009, 09:36 PM   #11
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Well, I still stand behind his comment 100%!
That's fine, but I still don't know what I missed in my response when you wrote:

Quote:
Your not grasping the point of BurghMan...His point was in general, not just with the rail industry.
In BurghMan's post, Paragrapgh 1 includes, "EVERYONE should be very careful when posting photos that show railroad employees."

Paragraph 2 includes, "This site is regularly monitored by the railroads. That is not some conspiracy-theory crap but a fact...I'll admit that I know of no discipline that has resulted from a RailPix photo, but it could."

Paragraph 3 (of 3) includes, "So unless you are ABSOLUTELY sure that the employee isn't breaking any rules (safety glasses, ear plugs, etc...), please think twice before posting a photo that clearly identifies a railroad employee."

So I see alot of railroad and railroad employee talk, not just "in general" type talk. Am I still not grasping the idea of BurghMan's point????
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Old 05-20-2009, 11:47 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Ween View Post
That's fine, but I still don't know what I missed in my response when you wrote:



In BurghMan's post, Paragrapgh 1 includes, "EVERYONE should be very careful when posting photos that show railroad employees."

Paragraph 2 includes, "This site is regularly monitored by the railroads. That is not some conspiracy-theory crap but a fact...I'll admit that I know of no discipline that has resulted from a RailPix photo, but it could."

Paragraph 3 (of 3) includes, "So unless you are ABSOLUTELY sure that the employee isn't breaking any rules (safety glasses, ear plugs, etc...), please think twice before posting a photo that clearly identifies a railroad employee."

So I see alot of railroad and railroad employee talk, not just "in general" type talk. Am I still not grasping the idea of BurghMan's point????
Damn kids and their technical talk!! Yes, yes, I misunderstood YOUR response Chris. I am not the best with comprehension and i'm easily distracted by shiny objects! I still agree strongly with the Burgh' tho. I know Mr. Ireland was including some of the law with his response, my point of the "asking" was just that. There is nothing wrong or illegal about asking the person to remove the pics. Could the "asking" party take things to the next level if the "asker" did not remove the pics? That really depends on the situation, some laws protect the photographer, some the property owner and even some for the person(s) being photographed without consent (not sure if this is the case here or not, the reason was never made clear, however, we should respect that). I think that the O.P. did the right thing in removing the pics in question. I would do the same if I was in his position, it is just courtesy and I don't like to burn bridges.
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Old 05-22-2009, 02:13 AM   #13
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I'll leave it simply at this - many railroaders look at their job with some disdain, generally from a "political" sense (management, unions, and much of the associated stuff with class ones). Most railroaders I've met do view themselves as railroaders, and like some aspects of their jobs (particularly just being out riding the rails), but it's not a job they'd do for free by any means, and most of these guys freely admit they wish they had taken another career path. They continue on, however, because the money is particularly good - it's a means to put food on the table for their families. Why do we go out and shoot trains? For fun - it's a hobby, and for most of us, has no adverse affect on our family lives, financial situation, etc.

While I can't argue with the fact that railroaders shouldn't have been breaking certain rules in the first place, you have to keep in mind that posting a photo with this content can have some serious consequences for the crew member for what may have been an innocent slip-up (usually something like not wearing safety glasses or ear plugs). I don't know about you, but for me, I'd feel more than a little guilty knowing a photo I posted on here resulted in an employee I see time and time again trackside being put out of service.

My solution to this is, if I'm ever in doubt, I simply e-mail the photo to a railroader friend or two, and ask them if the employee is doing anything that could get them in some serious trouble. If so, usually a few minutes with the clone stamp in Photoshop is all it takes to fix it - I still get to upload the photo, and the employee is safe (sometimes though, it just has to rest with your private collection). There are many T&E (Train & Engine Service) employees on this site and others who likely wouldn't mind quickly glancing at a photo to protect their own - they are the most readily accessible railroad employees, being on the trains themselves, so I'd be surprised if there's many people on here who don't know a professional railroader.

Simply put, it's a two way street - respect them, and they'll respect you. I know some of you won't give a crap about what I've said above, but that's my opinion on the situation - I'm not asking you to agree with me, nor am I looking to pick a fight with anyone. And, for the record, out of the thousands upon thousands of shots I've taken, there has only ever been two photos that I can think of that I outright couldn't post - hardly any real loss IMO.
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Old 05-22-2009, 02:19 AM   #14
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Great points Nick! The unfortunate side to this is that some folk could care less and post or publish a photo anyways just for the coverage that they will receive. What a terrible shame........
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Old 05-22-2009, 02:29 AM   #15
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Over the past twelve months, QR and Dupont have launched a rail safety campaign called Zero Harm/Rail Smart. During this time a number of company policies have been modified in an attempt to reduce railway-related injuries. I can see that Zero Harm and Rail Enthusiasts may cause some grief for Railway Staff. For example, a rail enthusiast posts a photo online of a train approaching a railway crossing without the headlight illuminated. This simple action is against QR Policy and if viewed by fellow Railway Staff or QR Management may result in disciplinary action.

Some may say that Railway Staff should adhere to Policy at all times, especially when 'Big Brother' is watching. However, the reality is that sometimes this type of action is not always possible. Not only that, here in Queensland, this school of thought is creating an organisational culture among Railway Staff that Rail Enthusiasts are nothing but a pest. With this in mind, I guess it is probably best to consider the consequences to Railway Staff when taking photos, especially because this is their job and livelihood.
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Old 05-22-2009, 04:26 AM   #16
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On the general topic of deleting photos, why not allow RP members to delete their own photos? Would that not allow the overall quality of the photos in the RP database to be improved by letting the photographers themselves to easily (without help from admins) cull out weaker examples of their work?
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Old 05-22-2009, 01:07 PM   #17
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On the general topic of deleting photos, why not allow RP members to delete their own photos? Would that not allow the overall quality of the photos in the RP database to be improved by letting the photographers themselves to easily (without help from admins) cull out weaker examples of their work?
The company line is that the current system is in place for security reasons (i.e., so that somebody cannot log on to somebody else's account and delete all their photos).

Of course, the obvious flaw with this system is that there is no conformation email when asking to have pictures removed, so if somebody did in fact get on to somebody else's account and emailed the admins to have their photo's removed, person one wouldn't know about it until it was too late and the photos were already removed.
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Old 05-22-2009, 01:43 PM   #18
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...there is no conformation email when asking to have pictures removed, so if somebody did in fact get on to somebody else's account and emailed the admins to have their photo's removed, person one wouldn't know about it until it was too late and the photos were already removed.
You mean like when one of the two Christopher Mullers who submits to RP asked for his photos to be removed and the admins removed the wrong Muller? Oops!

But, it's good to see that both Chris' are back on RP!
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Old 05-22-2009, 07:15 PM   #19
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You can't expect it to happen instantly. One of the two Chris's will usually take care of the request within 24 hours. If the photos have been up for a while, a few more hours isn't going to kill whomever has the issue(s).

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Old 05-22-2009, 09:11 PM   #20
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That whole taking a picture of doing something wrong seems to be a new trend if you really want to look at it. Examples: photo radar, red light running cameras, ect.
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Old 05-22-2009, 10:59 PM   #21
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This has nothing to do with any employee not wanting his photo posted.The images in question were newly rebuilt locomotives at a rebuild shop.I had permission to be there and was even driven back to the units to take pictures.A big shot from EMD sawpictures of the units on-line and got very uptight about the pictures being on-line before the official release of them at a ceremony.The guys at the rebuild shop were taking alot of heat from EMD.I was asked to take them down until the official release of the units.
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Old 05-22-2009, 11:28 PM   #22
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First, have the photos been taken care of? I get the emails that the admins get but do not have control over this type of situation other than hope it gets taken care of promptly.

This is an interesting situation and these discussions of "privilege" shots are quite fascinating to me. I had the fortunate opportunity to photograph (along with another RP member) RBMN 425 a few months before her 11 year rebuild was complete. We both agreed to not submit photos until she was out on the rails for two reasons: 1. Prevent other railfans from either trespassing to get similar photos or swamping the railroad with requests to photograph inside the shops. 2. Prevent the employee who let us take photos from getting any flack for it. An immediate post narrows down the date rather than posting 2 years after the fact.
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Old 05-22-2009, 11:39 PM   #23
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I think the easiest way to solve this problem would be to have a form somewhere on the members page where members can plug in a list of shots they want deleted, and send it to the admins for review. The form would also send an automated email to the users email address at the same time. If the user simply replies to the automatic email, it would "verify" their request and then appropriate action could be taken. That's a lot easier than trying to get all your photo ID numbers together in an email, and knowing where to send it.
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Old 05-23-2009, 01:24 AM   #24
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I think the easiest way to solve this problem would be to have a form somewhere on the members page where members can plug in a list of shots they want deleted, and send it to the admins for review. The form would also send an automated email to the users email address at the same time. If the user simply replies to the automatic email, it would "verify" their request and then appropriate action could be taken. That's a lot easier than trying to get all your photo ID numbers together in an email, and knowing where to send it.
Or, just have a big fat DELETE button like they do for shots in the queue...
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