Old 05-10-2008, 02:31 AM   #26
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For a 12X i would no doubt go with the Cannon S5IS as it has some of the best reviews, however in terms of super zooms i have a feeling that 12X is becoming on the trailing edge of things with all these releases of 18X camera's.
Those reviews have deterred me from purchasing the P80, right now my top choice for 18X is the Fujifilm Finepix s8100fd but still a hard choice, not a small investment so i will keep reading reviews.
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Old 05-10-2008, 02:57 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by nikos1
Those reviews have deterred me from purchasing the P80, right now my top choice for 18X is the Fujifilm Finepix s8100fd but still a hard choice, not a small investment so i will keep reading reviews.
If I were you, I'd save a little bit and go with the S8000fd. The sensor on the S8100fd is 1/2.33, barely bigger than the 1/2.35 used on the S8000fd, and they've crammed two more megapixels into that. That tells me one thing has increased - noise.

Also, notice the quote in this review:

Quote:
Cons: Not much improvement over s8000fd
I'm not saying that, for you, it won't be worth it at ALL to have the additional resolution, but, if I were you, I'd stick with the 8 MP for now...

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Old 05-10-2008, 07:27 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Carl Becker
I must disagree there with ya, Mike. Yes, while an SLR offers a larger sensor and whatnot else, for some the convenience of a P&S is what matters most.
Maybe if you only shoot wedge shots. If you want to branch out and get creative with your photography, then you'll be wishing you invested in a dSLR.

With a P&S, you cannot manually focus and control depth of field, or match the image quality, color, contrast, instant startup time, multiple frames per second, spot metering and countless other things that most dSLR cameras offer.
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Old 05-10-2008, 11:03 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Frederick
Maybe if you only shoot wedge shots. If you want to branch out and get creative with your photography, then you'll be wishing you invested in a dSLR.

With a P&S, you cannot manually focus and control depth of field, or match the image quality, color, contrast, instant startup time, multiple frames per second, spot metering and countless other things that most dSLR cameras offer.
I appreciate a good wedgie shot, but the same spot over and over does get boring with no change of background or subject.

I went from a super-zoom or whatever you want to call them to a dSLR. After using the dSLR I was angry I didn't make the change sooner. There are so many features about the dSLR I like better.

If you are getting close to the price range of a dSLR, I would save up a few more bucks and go with that. The investment is very much worth it!
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Old 05-11-2008, 03:05 AM   #30
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only shoot wedgies?

I'm breaking that law then...

you guys make it sound like us P&S'ers are just inbred dumbasses that stand in one spot and take an out of focus shot of every car in the train, and rejoice in our greatness for doing so..

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Old 05-11-2008, 04:14 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by bigbassloyd
only shoot wedgies?

I'm breaking that law then...

you guys make it sound like us P&S'ers are just inbred dumbasses that stand in one spot and take an out of focus shot of every car in the train, and rejoice in our greatness for doing so..

Loyd L.
Well lets put this way, Every person I have talked with who went from P&S to SLR wishes they had done it sooner. I never talked to or heard of someone going from SLR to P&S. Never. Never Ever.

In fact, the reason I took so long to change over from film to digital was because I was waiting for reasonable priced dSLR. If somebody handed me a P&S now, I would say "thanks for the paperweight but I would go back to film before shooting with that thing."
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Old 05-11-2008, 04:58 AM   #32
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Ok then, so if i was able to get a Rebel XT (Supposing the one Janusz mentioned at KEH was still available) what kind of a difference would i feel from the basic PNS to a SLR with a 18-55 lens? I made a visit to best buy today (we dont have real camera stores around here) and i can say i did like the feel of one of the Nikon SLR's, D60 i believe, all the cannons were out of battery. But then if i got it how much would i have to pay for a lens equivalent to the 12X of a S5 or the 18X of some newer superzooms? And then to actually get good pictues how much manual focusing would i have to do? Ill admit it, im a true PNSer, i work the zoom on the video camera until the train gets close and then get out my ultra basic PNS and snap a shot, which ussualy ends up with me having a mediocre video and picture but i cant seem to live without either. With a super zoom i would still be doing more shooting pictures but i dont want it to become that i have to solely concentrate on photos and not be able to do video as i find both equally important.
Ive been doing alot of research and i think ive settled back where i started, the S5 even with its "low" zoom range still looks like the best, a big feature of the S5 that i like is that it can do 20 second time exposures, while it doesnt allow any long train streaking around the mountain effects, ive seen some pretty nice pics taken with it. So unless someone can convince me about another super zoom or a SLR i think thats what im going to get.
Still open to suggestions though
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Old 05-11-2008, 05:21 AM   #33
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Ok then, so if i was able to get a Rebel XT (Supposing the one Janusz mentioned at KEH was still available) what kind of a difference would i feel from the basic PNS to a SLR with a 18-55 lens?
Feel? As it how it feels in your hand? The S5 and XT are about the same size, so the feel's pretty similar. However, with the XT, you'll be holding it up to your face, with the S5, you'll probably be holding it out to look at the LCD so there's a 'feel' difference.

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But then if i got it how much would i have to pay for a lens equivalent to the 12X of a S5 or the 18X of some newer superzooms?
I don't think that much exists, but generally, the bigger the difference between the wide end and the telephoto end, the less overall image quality. By having such a large zoom range, you have to sacrifice certain things, unfortunately, image quality is one of the things affected. Same deal with a PnS.

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And then to actually get good pictues how much manual focusing would i have to do?
I've never taken a manually focused train photo ever.

Quote:
With a super zoom i would still be doing more shooting pictures but i dont want it to become that i have to solely concentrate on photos and not be able to do video as i find both equally important.
I video sometimes when I'm out with my PnS, and it doesn't detract from your photography. To be fair though, I'm not zooming or panning with the video and basically just video run-bys, but my primary focus when I'm out is the photography.

I had the 18-55mm "Kit Lens" until Aug '07, and it did just fine. Here's a sample of what I was getting with the XT and the Kit Lens:

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Old 05-11-2008, 05:42 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by jdirelan87
Well lets put this way, Every person I have talked with who went from P&S to SLR wishes they had done it sooner. I never talked to or heard of someone going from SLR to P&S. Never. Never Ever.

In fact, the reason I took so long to change over from film to digital was because I was waiting for reasonable priced dSLR. If somebody handed me a P&S now, I would say "thanks for the paperweight but I would go back to film before shooting with that thing."
DSLR + good lens = no contest. I'm not saying there would be.

DSLR + crap / kit lens, I'll argue that superzoom isn't going to be blown away.

If you have the money, and can go balls to the wall. Spend it on lens, and a DLSR and you'll love it. Lord knows if I wasn't providing for a family, I'd have a 1d and an L glass collection to die for. And I'm sure I'd have my nose pointed upward, so I could scowl downward at any lowly person who dared bring a P&S to their eye.

If you're not willing to part with a couple grand, you may be quite happy with a lower priced superzoom. I can shoot wide angle, telephoto, video, and RAW from a camera that was 300 bucks. Some of my shots on RP are adequate, some aren't. I see that with alot of accounts on here though

and so it goes

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Old 05-11-2008, 04:32 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbassloyd
DSLR + crap / kit lens, I'll argue that superzoom isn't going to be blown away.

Loyd L.
Most kit lenses work just fine, as long as you keep it around f/8. If you want to use the big aperatures, they are crap, but for sunny shots they will likely meet almost everyones needs. Nikon is known to make very good kit lenses, not sure about Canon though.
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Old 05-11-2008, 05:12 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by bigbassloyd
only shoot wedgies?

I'm breaking that law then...

you guys make it sound like us P&S'ers are just inbred dumbasses that stand in one spot and take an out of focus shot of every car in the train, and rejoice in our greatness for doing so..

Loyd L.
If you can't afford to buy a dSLR, then there is nothing wrong with a P&S. But if one could afford a dSLR, I don't know why they would choose a superzoom. Superzooms cost almost as much, and there isn't much of a difference in size.

I was not trying to insult anyone. If I did, I apologize.
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Old 05-11-2008, 05:16 PM   #37
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All of my early digital shots were taken with the "crap kit lens."

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So if the comparison is between a P&S and a DSLR with a "crappy kit lens," then that comparison can only go so far. Because at some point, you can replace that kit lens with something better. Not so with a P&S. Not that I'm here to bury P&S cameras. Obviously Loyd and many others get some great shots from them. But at some point, each photographer needs to decide for themselves what is best and what they can afford. It just seems like a good cheap DSLR like the Rebel or the Nikon equivalent is a smarter choice that a P&S that can't be upgraded.


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Old 05-11-2008, 05:44 PM   #38
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I don't know about the S5. I was at Wal-Mart and just for the heck of it I tried out the S5. It seemed like it was made of really cheap plastic. I believe all thoughts of me possibly ever picking up an S5 just got flushed down the drain.
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Old 05-11-2008, 06:28 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbassloyd
DSLR + good lens = no contest. I'm not saying there would be.

DSLR + crap / kit lens, I'll argue that superzoom isn't going to be blown away.

If you have the money, and can go balls to the wall. Spend it on lens, and a DLSR and you'll love it. Lord knows if I wasn't providing for a family, I'd have a 1d and an L glass collection to die for. And I'm sure I'd have my nose pointed upward, so I could scowl downward at any lowly person who dared bring a P&S to their eye.

If you're not willing to part with a couple grand, you may be quite happy with a lower priced superzoom. I can shoot wide angle, telephoto, video, and RAW from a camera that was 300 bucks. Some of my shots on RP are adequate, some aren't. I see that with alot of accounts on here though

and so it goes

Loyd L.
Loyd, what model of superzoom do you use? You collection is exactly what i want to achieve with mine, a combination of regular sunny day shots, telephotos, night still shots and streaks.
So far from what i have seen the Canon S5 is the only one that can do long (20 second) night exposures but if you have something different i may well choose that because you have got a exceptional collection which looks like its from a SLR.
As for SLR's i can fully see what you all mean about it being a long term investment, but i also need to look in the shortrun and with the trip to Montreal coming up, which will probably be my only significant railfan trip this year, its either a superzoom or the old Canon A80.
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Old 05-11-2008, 07:13 PM   #40
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Quote:
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Loyd, what model of superzoom do you use?
I use a Canon S3IS, with CHDK software ( http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page ) The software overrides the default scripts in Digilogic II and III cameras, which covers most / all of the Canon powershot cameras. It allows me to shoot up to a 65 second exposure, shoot RAW, adjust video parameters, and a slew of other stuff. Best of all, its free, and 100% safe because its loaded onto your memory card, and doesn't alter the default scripts in the camera. That tinker ability makes it even harder to give up the old girl.

S5 has software available for it too, so it would be hard for me to reccommend anything but the S5, which is very similar to the S3.

Good luck!

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Old 05-11-2008, 07:21 PM   #41
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Ive heard about CDHK before, but i didnt know it let you do up to 65 second exposures, thats just awesome right there.RAW will be great too for when i need to take some serious pictures. well i think its settled then,
S5 it is! Got one in the shopping cart at amazon just need to place the order
Thanks for everyone who has contributed to this thread!
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Old 05-11-2008, 10:24 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdirelan87
I never talked to or heard of someone going from SLR to P&S. Never. Never Ever.
I have.

http://www.amazon.com/review/RQ8A79J...cm_cr_rdp_perm
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Old 05-12-2008, 12:06 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdirelan87
Well lets put this way, Every person I have talked with who went from P&S to SLR wishes they had done it sooner. I never talked to or heard of someone going from SLR to P&S. Never. Never Ever.

In fact, the reason I took so long to change over from film to digital was because I was waiting for reasonable priced dSLR. If somebody handed me a P&S now, I would say "thanks for the paperweight but I would go back to film before shooting with that thing."
Well, I insist on breaking all the rules as well. Owned the Nikon D40 and had to sell it to help go to Europe last year. I picked up one of the more fun P&S's - the Nikon S10 and had a blast with it. Last week when pressed to decide what to take to Europe this year I bought the NIkon P80.

I love this camera. No need to lug around lenses and stuff and it has a lot of niceties for the price. Only other camera I might have considered would have been the Sony H-50 for the Zeiss lens, but after owning the P80 for a week I see no reason to return it. Except for the annoying lenscap which pops off when the camera is turned on or bumped at just the right angle, this camera is amazing. And I am free to return it and pick up where I left off with the D40, but no. I want something that I can turn on and begin shooting. Might not do lightning right out of the box, but hey, I've never shot lightning anyway. And if it ever does I'll be sure to post it here where my paperweight saves me time, energy, and reveals some of its magic:

http://mediainformatics.biz/fractals...ls.php?album=6

And for the person who read the P80 reviews at Amazon and took them to heart, had I listened to the loudest complainer there I might have missed out on what I consider to be an exceptional piece of photographic machinery. We beg to differ:

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage....#productdetail

Peace.

Steve

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Old 05-12-2008, 12:20 AM   #44
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For the OP, now you have someone who really enjoys the P80, and now they've actually shown what it can do. It's a good time to make a judgement, whether the reviews on Amazon do show its downfalls or whether its compromises are things that you can live with...
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Old 05-12-2008, 01:35 AM   #45
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well i think im pretty much decided but how long is the maximum exposure on the P80, right now im pretty enticed by the fact that with CDHK i can get 65 second exposures with the S5, though i still also quite like the idea of the 18x zoom. Price i think is going to make the S5 the winner though
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Old 05-12-2008, 01:50 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by nikos1
well i think im pretty much decided but how long is the maximum exposure on the P80, right now im pretty enticed by the fact that with CDHK i can get 65 second exposures with the S5, though i still also quite like the idea of the 18x zoom. Price i think is going to make the S5 the winner though
I have no idea since my main reason for buying it is its .4 inch macro capabilities. Besides it doesn't do RAW though it has been hinted that Nikon has given firmware upgrades to RAW in the past it is no promise here. Since minute-long exposures are your thing, it sounds like you found what you are looking for. Enjoy!

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Old 05-12-2008, 01:52 AM   #47
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So...why aren't you getting a SLR?
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Old 05-12-2008, 02:27 AM   #48
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So...why aren't you getting a SLR?
$$$$$$
Even for a low end SLR with crap lens would really be stretching it for me, i just purchased the S5IS for 300 dollars and with the CDHK update i think i will be able to get alot out of the camera for what i paid. Minute long exposures arnt my thing but i want the ability to experiment with them, a SLR will have to wait for a while but i think the S5 will be a good fit for the present.
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Old 05-12-2008, 03:07 AM   #49
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Well, if the money ain't there it ain't there. Sorry if you mentioned this previously and I just missed it.
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Old 05-12-2008, 04:10 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frederick
Maybe if you only shoot wedge shots. If you want to branch out and get creative with your photography, then you'll be wishing you invested in a dSLR.

With a P&S, you cannot manually focus and control depth of field, or match the image quality, color, contrast, instant startup time, multiple frames per second, spot metering and countless other things that most dSLR cameras offer.
Hi Frederick,

Actually you can manually focus the P80 from 1cm to infinity in P-S-A-M modes, as well as Sport Continuous, which will shoot 30 frames per second though it drops from 10 to 3MP to shoot SC mode. Same drop applies to ISO above 2000 up to 6400. But there is also Multi-shot 16 mode where it shoots 16 pictures at 1.1 frames per second and arranges them into a single picture, as well as interval timer shooting.

The P80 offers 256-segment matrix, center-weighted, spot, and spot AF area metering with support for 99 focus areas. It has exposure compensation of -2.0 to +2.0 EV in steps of 1/3EV as well as auto bracketing. The lens is 27-486 mm so I don't really need any other lenses. You can also control white balance.

I do miss the old Nikon F-series depth of field preview and results some, but I can still get DOF in my pix, mostly macros which is nice:

http://mediainformatics.biz/fractals...lbum=6&pos=110

http://mediainformatics.biz/fractals...lbum=6&pos=147

I know none of this can compare to a DSLR or a pro camera, but there are some freedoms here for being creative, however minute that may be. I can also crop in-camera, have it take a series of shots and choose the 'best one' with its BSS, and optimize the image in a lot of ways before it leaves the camera. I don't mind that they've thrown in emergency video capabilities and audio message recording either

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbassloyd
only shoot wedgies?

you guys make it sound like us P&S'ers are just inbred dumbasses that stand in one spot and take an out of focus shot of every car in the train, and rejoice in our greatness for doing so..

Loyd L.

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