Old 03-21-2009, 03:06 PM   #1
J Douglas Moore
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I have reworked this shot so many times the screeners are gonna hate me. I think I have it, but it comes back with "noise" rejection. I am not seeing it. First off, opinions on the noise thing and also maybe tell me if you like/dislike the shot. Its by no means anything special, I just kinda like it. Thanks

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Old 03-21-2009, 03:19 PM   #2
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I would agree, there is too much "noise" but that's not why I dislike the photo. It screams "over-manipulation" to me. It almost looks like the various elements, sky, train, rolling hills, people, have been cut and pasted from separate photos. The photo makes no tonal sense to me. A good rule of thumb, if a photo looks manipulated, it probably is.
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Old 03-21-2009, 03:31 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Mark Bau View Post
I would agree, there is too much "noise" but that's not why I dislike the photo. It screams "over-manipulation" to me. It almost looks like the various elements, sky, train, rolling hills, people, have been cut and pasted from separate photos. The photo makes no tonal sense to me. A good rule of thumb, if a photo looks manipulated, it probably is.
Well, you couldn't be more wrong on the manipulation. Sharpened as RAW....... Covert to tif -hue adjust up by 5 - resize - UMS 60/10/0 - bump contrast by 5 - save as jpg --- End of story
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Old 03-21-2009, 03:31 PM   #4
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J
I'm not good at seeing noise either but I think I am seeing it in the dark part of the clouds. I have to say though I do like the shot. I really like the big puffy clouds.

Just my 2cents.
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Old 03-21-2009, 04:06 PM   #5
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Well, you couldn't be more wrong on the manipulation. Sharpened as RAW....... Covert to tif -hue adjust up by 5 - resize - UMS 60/10/0 - bump contrast by 5 - save as jpg --- End of story
Looks like what happens to me if I try to over Saturate the colors,try backing them down some.
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Old 03-21-2009, 04:11 PM   #6
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The sky shows signs of compression to me. Also, that's an ES44DC, not a Dash 9...unless I'm missing something.

Also, I wouldn't sharpen any with the RAW file. Save your sharpening for the very last steps with the TIF. USM > Resize to 1024 > small USM...
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Old 03-21-2009, 04:11 PM   #7
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I like the shot, I am seeing a lot of jaggies though. That may be the problem. Colors and scene looks great.
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Old 03-21-2009, 04:19 PM   #8
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There is something funny about the image along the top of the covered hopper-not sure if it is jpg artifacts or what?
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Old 03-21-2009, 04:36 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Ween View Post
The sky shows signs of compression to me. Also, that's an ES44DC, not a Dash 9...unless I'm missing something.

Also, I wouldn't sharpen any with the RAW file. Save your sharpening for the very last steps with the TIF. USM > Resize to 1024 > small USM...
I am not very good at ID'ing these things yet. I am not the only one to get the ID wrong. Here is my source
Image © MOrailfan
PhotoID: 251317
Photograph © MOrailfan
so I guess he should be told also.

Since I got an earlier reject on this pic for too much compression (I do not compress them), I tried sharpening in RAW. This is the first time I tried it and it did seem to work OK. I am still learning the best sequence for my shots, but I will stick with USM in tif.
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Old 03-21-2009, 04:51 PM   #10
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I generally have good luck with http://www.thedieselshop.us/MPR.html in IDing my pictures.

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Old 03-21-2009, 06:09 PM   #11
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There is something funny about the image along the top of the covered hopper-not sure if it is jpg artifacts or what?
What you are seeing is the top of a Cemex hopper that is the next car forward. Note that the train is going up a pretty good grade..........
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Old 03-21-2009, 09:42 PM   #12
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I like the shot as a whole, especially since it has people in it. The clouds are especially nice with excellent contrast.

On my calibrated 22" flat screen the noise in the blue sky is easy to spot. Also, at least on my monitor the locomotive's color is too much to the red. The orange in your avatar is closer to accurate I think.
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Old 03-21-2009, 11:42 PM   #13
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Well, you couldn't be more wrong on the manipulation. Sharpened as RAW....... Covert to tif -hue adjust up by 5 - resize - UMS 60/10/0 - bump contrast by 5 - save as jpg --- End of story
Well somewhere along there, one of those steps made the photo go a little odd...or you underexposed the shot and didn't realize it. This reminds me of your Apache shot that had a nice cloud filled sky that for one reason was too dark/oversaturated. At the time, I thought you'd embellished the shot a little much, but perhaps it's your monitor.

I worked with this shot in PSE6 for a couple minutes, mostly messing with the colors and then doing a little noise reduction to the sky. This looks right to me, see if you can match it.
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Old 03-22-2009, 12:56 AM   #14
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Well somewhere along there, one of those steps made the photo go a little odd...or you underexposed the shot and didn't realize it. This reminds me of your Apache shot that had a nice cloud filled sky that for one reason was too dark/oversaturated. At the time, I thought you'd embellished the shot a little much, but perhaps it's your monitor.

I worked with this shot in PSE6 for a couple minutes, mostly messing with the colors and then doing a little noise reduction to the sky. This looks right to me, see if you can match it.
Ken, it has to be my monitor. Your redo looks sharp, crisp but undersaurated on my screen. The Apache shot had about the same amount of process work so I dont think I over did it, but I am still learning. I usually only spend about 5 -10 mins on a shot but I am still quite a novice. Rich mentioned he could see the noise in the blue sky. I just cannot see it. ?? I will play with it some more tonite. Thanks
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Old 03-22-2009, 01:05 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Bau View Post
It almost looks like the various elements, sky, train, rolling hills, people, have been cut and pasted from separate photos. The photo makes no tonal sense to me.
Yup, the last sentence in particular.

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Originally Posted by J Douglas Moore View Post
Well, you couldn't be more wrong on the manipulation.
OK, I believe you, but it still looks weird.

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Originally Posted by milwman View Post
Looks like what happens to me if I try to over Saturate the colors,try backing them down some.
Agree, but I won't claim to have the greatest sense of western skies as far as the blue goes and I don't know the elevation at this location.

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Your redo looks sharp, crisp but undersaurated on my screen.
I think the redo looks good on color except for the BNSF leader which looks awful here, faded out, maybe overexposed a bit.

One thing that is disconcerting, there doesn't seem to be a shadow anywhere. I eventually found a bit of handrail shadow, and some under the pilot and fuel tank, but that entire scene, nothing around to cast a shadow. For some reason one cannot see the shadows of the two people. And then that effect that makes the clouds look cut/pasted. I see that it is real but it seems off nonetheless.
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Old 03-22-2009, 02:05 AM   #16
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Doug,

I absolutely 100% believe you... but Mark is right... something looks wierd, and it's in the sky... it's overpowering.

I would suggest going back to square one and starting again. Maybe it's underexposed and you need to just turn it into a Tiff as is and see what the auto fixes in Photoshop comes up with?
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Old 03-22-2009, 02:40 AM   #17
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OK....... I took the next photo in a series of 4 shots and did the following : RAW converted to tif, then cropped, USM 60/20/0, resize, USM 60/5/0, then save as jpg. Take alook........... This is close to how I usually process, sometimes more sometimes less..........I actually like this shot better anyway.

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Old 03-22-2009, 02:40 AM   #18
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Well, you couldn't be more wrong on the manipulation. Sharpened as RAW....... Covert to tif -hue adjust up by 5 - resize - UMS 60/10/0 - bump contrast by 5 - save as jpg --- End of story
Did you use a polarising filter when you took this shot?
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Old 03-22-2009, 02:51 AM   #19
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Did you use a polarising filter when you took this shot?
I cannot say yes absolutly but most often will use it when I have some cloud/blue sky mix. So, I will say yes...... I like the more dramatic sky it gives. Elevation there is about 4200' This was taken in late Jan.
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Old 03-22-2009, 02:56 AM   #20
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Looks much better...

Is that the same thing you did to the first one?

The sky does look noisy though...

Is it a high ISO?

If it's not what you did to the first, I would do the exact same to the first, and then isolate the sky and give it a light (emphasis on light) noise reduction.
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Old 03-22-2009, 03:07 AM   #21
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One thing that is disconcerting, there doesn't seem to be a shadow anywhere. I eventually found a bit of handrail shadow, and some under the pilot and fuel tank, but that entire scene, nothing around to cast a shadow. For some reason one cannot see the shadows of the two people. And then that effect that makes the clouds look cut/pasted. I see that it is real but it seems off nonetheless.
Here is a crop from the untouched tif. You can clearly see the shadows so I am messin up someplace.

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Old 03-22-2009, 03:10 AM   #22
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Looks much better...

Is that the same thing you did to the first one?

The sky does look noisy though...

Is it a high ISO?

If it's not what you did to the first, I would do the exact same to the first, and then isolate the sky and give it a light (emphasis on light) noise reduction.
I had sharpened in RAW on the other one and bumped the hue by+5, otherwise kinda close to same. ISO at 100.
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Old 03-22-2009, 03:12 AM   #23
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Quote:
USM 60/20/0, resize, USM 60/5/0
Wait...these seem like awfully high radius values. I never set my radius above 1. Try 100%/0.7/0, resize, 50%/0.3/0.
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Old 03-22-2009, 03:24 AM   #24
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Wait...these seem like awfully high radius values. I never set my radius above 1. Try 100%/0.7/0, resize, 50%/0.3/0.
To make sure we on the same page USM 60/20/0 is 60=radius 20=strength ........ Is that correct order?
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Old 03-22-2009, 03:24 AM   #25
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Here is a crop from the untouched tif. You can clearly see the shadows so I am messin up someplace.
No you are not messing up, that crop shows exactly what I see. But in the full image the engine is small so the handrail shadows on the side of the long hood are barely visible, the shadow under the pilot is certainly there but so what. The issue is that there are no shadows anywhere in the image but the engine, which gives it all a bit of a strange look, especially to this non-desert-loving easterner.

It is just extremely flat light, the sort of thing when you have the sun not just directly behind you but essentially sitting right on your shoulder, so from the persepective of your camera there is very little in the way of dark. Or, think of an indoor shot with direct flash on top of the body. No shadows, looks artificial.

I still like the shot, I just don't love it because it seems "off", again even though I know it isn't.
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