Old 12-31-2013, 02:33 AM   #1
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Default Crude Oil Train Derailment

A BNSF train carrying crude oil derailed and exploded in ND. Apparently an adjacent grain derailed first and knocked the tankers off the track. Here is a link to an article with photo and video:

http://www.whio.com/ap/ap/transporta...ailment/ncYRG/

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Old 12-31-2013, 10:44 PM   #2
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Here is a CNN link with some video. Very impressive fire-balls.

Warren Buffett's RR no less

http://www.cnn.com/2013/12/30/us/nor...ota-train-fire

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Old 01-02-2014, 11:11 PM   #3
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Just to add a new development to this thread seeing I'm invested in Bakken Oil stocks and news came out today. First off, my first impression of the fireballs I saw in the derailment videos was "that looks more like gasoline and not crude oil" and it seems the Federal Government may have the same thinking after a few derailments and investigations....

http://www.cnbc.com/id/101306310

Will be interesting to see what comes of this and if any new regulations come down.....

Rich
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Old 01-04-2014, 05:28 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by bigiron View Post
Just to add a new development to this thread seeing I'm invested in Bakken Oil stocks and news came out today. First off, my first impression of the fireballs I saw in the derailment videos was "that looks more like gasoline and not crude oil" and it seems the Federal Government may have the same thinking after a few derailments and investigations....

http://www.cnbc.com/id/101306310

Will be interesting to see what comes of this and if any new regulations come down.....

Rich
Well if it was a grain train that knocked the oil/ gas off the tracks, there's not a lot they can do about that.

As to it being gasoline or crude oil, I don't know. You would think the RR should know whats in their own cars.
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Old 01-04-2014, 03:15 PM   #5
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Well if it was a grain train that knocked the oil/ gas off the tracks, there's not a lot they can do about that.
Back in the 70's, at least on the SCL, maybe other railroads too, there were a couple accidents where pulpwood loads had shifted and struck passenger trains (Amtrak at the time). SCL came up with a rule that stated that any time a train carrying pulpwood loads met a passenger train, be it in a siding or section of double track, the train carrying the pulpwood loads had to be stopped, and the passenger train had to proceed past the train not exceeding medium speed (30mph). This rule lasted into the 80's when pulpwood more or less disappeared.

A similar rule could be made where an oil train has to stop, and the passing train has to pass at medium or restricted speed.

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As to it being gasoline or crude oil, I don't know. You would think the RR should know whats in their own cars.
First, those arent THEIR OWN cars, they are owned or leased by the oil companies. The railroads just move them. Second, you think they know what's in those cars? They dont. They dont inspect cars, be it tank cars, hoppers, boxcars, etc. Those covered hoppers could be full of cocaine or soylent green for all we know...

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Old 01-04-2014, 06:03 PM   #6
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Well if it was a grain train that knocked the oil/ gas off the tracks, there's not a lot they can do about that.

As to it being gasoline or crude oil, I don't know. You would think the RR should know whats in their own cars.
Derek, you missed my point.....the video fire plumes look very explosive for just crude in the unrefined state and it would make sense that Bakken oil could be in fact more flammable than other crude oil. I was not insinuating that the car/s were filled with gas and not oil....

Rich
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Old 01-04-2014, 06:22 PM   #7
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Derek, you missed my point.....the video fire plumes look very explosive for just crude in the unrefined state and it would make sense that Bakken oil could be in fact more flammable than other crude oil. I was not insinuating that the car/s were filled with gas and not oil....

Rich
No oil, just by itself, is explosive, it will not explode. What you have there, same as in the accident in Montreal is:
- Derailment
- leaking tank cars
- fire starts
- fire burns for a while, cooks tank cars
- oil in cooking tank cars starts to boil, gas separates, pressure increases
- tank car eventually bursts, oil/gas mixture under extreme pressure ignites, and explodes

This type of scenario can and does happen with chemical tank cars, propane, butane, etc

There's nothing you can do about this type of scenario short of transporting oil (and all other hazmat's) in the "cask" type railcars that they transport nuclear waste in... which are very expensive, heavy, and have CONSIDERABLE less capacity
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Old 01-04-2014, 09:40 PM   #8
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A similar rule could be made where an oil train has to stop, and the passing train has to pass at medium or restricted speed.

First, those arent THEIR OWN cars, they are owned or leased by the oil companies. The railroads just move them. Second, you think they know what's in those cars? They dont. They dont inspect cars, be it tank cars, hoppers, boxcars, etc. Those covered hoppers could be full of cocaine or soylent green for all we know...
I think that would be a good idea.

And what I meant was that the RR should know whats in the cars that are traveling on THEIR rails. But that's not what the other guy meant anyways so it doesn't matter.

And the if their filled with the cocaine, those birds that fly around after the leaking cars are having a good time.
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Old 01-04-2014, 09:42 PM   #9
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Derek, you missed my point.....the video fire plumes look very explosive for just crude in the unrefined state and it would make sense that Bakken oil could be in fact more flammable than other crude oil. I was not insinuating that the car/s were filled with gas and not oil....

Rich
Yeah, I know nothing about oil until its made into fuel so......Lol.
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Old 01-06-2014, 11:34 PM   #10
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Just a follow up on what is starting to unfold due to the recent accidents of Bakken Oil. Here is one article stating what is known and it also mentions the procedure of who is responsible for what at certain times. The Crude Oil itself seems to be of much higher quality than other types and is more desirable by refineries but the question is will the transport cost increase?

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/...0KC15Q20140102

To back up what Troy said in an earlier post I've taken a quote from the above article....."Railways do not inspect material they ship, and simply transport it from one location to another."

And to add the cars...."A member of the National Transportation Safety Board said on Tuesday that railcars involved in the crash were all older types that do not meet the latest industry safety standards".

Hope this clears up some of the questions...Rich
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Old 01-06-2014, 11:42 PM   #11
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If you like reading and want more proof of the quality and the upcoming demand to get Bakken Oil from the refineries and how some companies are buying their own rail cars to move it, here is one more article that came out a month ago...

http://seekingalpha.com/article/1051...ers-Top-Choice

It will be interesting to see how this all plays out in the months and years to come..

Rich

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Old 01-07-2014, 04:39 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by troy12n View Post
No oil, just by itself, is explosive, it will not explode. What you have there, same as in the accident in Montreal is:
- Derailment
- leaking tank cars
- fire starts
- fire burns for a while, cooks tank cars
- oil in cooking tank cars starts to boil, gas separates, pressure increases
- tank car eventually bursts, oil/gas mixture under extreme pressure ignites, and explodes

This type of scenario can and does happen with chemical tank cars, propane, butane, etc

There's nothing you can do about this type of scenario short of transporting oil (and all other hazmat's) in the "cask" type railcars that they transport nuclear waste in... which are very expensive, heavy, and have CONSIDERABLE less capacity
I live in Montreal, and we have not had any exploding trains here yet, though many crude oil trains pass through daily, the CN ones passing my house. The accident was in Megantic, about 3-4 hours due east of Montreal....
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Old 01-08-2014, 01:05 AM   #13
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I live in Montreal, and we have not had any exploding trains here yet, though many crude oil trains pass through daily, the CN ones passing my house. The accident was in Megantic, about 3-4 hours due east of Montreal....
Whatever city it was, it's part of that desolate, uninhabitable area North of the united states
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Old 01-08-2014, 01:33 AM   #14
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Whatever city it was, it's part of that desolate, uninhabitable area North of the united states
You Florida people haven't died yet from all of that Canadian air?
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Old 01-08-2014, 02:42 AM   #15
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You Florida people haven't died yet from all of that Canadian air?
It was a brutal 38 degrees this morning with a high of 49, screw this... oh well, supposed to be 80 by friday.
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Old 01-08-2014, 03:20 AM   #16
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It was a brutal 38 degrees this morning with a high of 49, screw this... oh well, supposed to be 80 by friday.
Yeah, I woke up to around -5 this morning. 45 on Saturday. These idiot Ohio people will be out in bikinis, no doubt.
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Old 01-23-2014, 10:31 PM   #17
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News story out today about this issue:

http://news.yahoo.com/ntsb-oil-train...-politics.html
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Old 01-24-2014, 05:33 PM   #18
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News story out today about this issue:

http://news.yahoo.com/ntsb-oil-train...-politics.html
Typical government. Instead of figuring out a way to stop derailments, they want to basically have the just derail somewhere else. Instead of creating major problems by trying re-route trains, why not try to figure out why they're derailing and stop that? Ridiculous, I know. And they talk like every train carrying flammables instantly derails.
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Old 01-26-2014, 09:09 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by troy12n View Post
No oil, just by itself, is explosive, it will not explode. What you have there, same as in the accident in Montreal is:
- Derailment
- leaking tank cars
- fire starts
- fire burns for a while, cooks tank cars
- oil in cooking tank cars starts to boil, gas separates, pressure increases
- tank car eventually bursts, oil/gas mixture under extreme pressure ignites, and explodes

This type of scenario can and does happen with chemical tank cars, propane, butane, etc

There's nothing you can do about this type of scenario short of transporting oil (and all other hazmat's) in the "cask" type railcars that they transport nuclear waste in... which are very expensive, heavy, and have CONSIDERABLE less capacity
Correct, known as a BLEVE, Boiling Liquid Expanding Vapour Explosion.
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