Old 05-10-2010, 02:55 AM   #26
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If someone thinks that every photo they have sent to RP is their best, they really need an ego check.
Ben has some shots that arn't his best, this one included, and as does Chase,some on RP, some not. No need to play Dan Valentine so im not going to try to point them out.
I think the screeners overreacted a good bit with this, maybe if Ben used all 10 slots uploading the same picture maybe but at the end of the day what can you do about it. I have 315 shots in the database but doesnt make me any more likely to get my slots back then when I had 100 shots.
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Old 05-10-2010, 02:57 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by Joe the Photog View Post
Should we all just wip them out and have a pissing contest? Just so we all know, what is the milit on how many "best" photographs someone can have?
Actually, at this point that sounds like a great idea, haha.

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Old 05-10-2010, 02:59 AM   #28
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I tried for a long time to cap my RP "portfolio" at 200 photos, but that became a losing battle. Still, I don't have 200 or 500 "best" photos. Putting a quantity on that is entirely subjective. Still, it's easy enough to tell quality from average or below-average. That's the issue here.
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Old 05-10-2010, 03:07 AM   #29
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I might appeal if I feel the rejection reason is wrong, otherwise I upload once and if it gets rejected, it goes on RRPA. Things are a lot less stressful since I began to follow this policy.
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Old 05-10-2010, 04:00 AM   #30
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Honestly, what would happen if all RP submitters had only 2 uploads a day? Would the site really change that much? Are their really more than a handful of photographers that you would like to see more than 2 photos a day from?

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Old 05-10-2010, 04:07 AM   #31
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Are their really more than a handful of photographers that you would like to see more than 2 photos a day from?

- Chris
Unless their photo stream is very diverse, two a day from most photographers is plenty.

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Old 05-10-2010, 04:08 AM   #32
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Honestly, what would happen if all RP submitters had only 2 uploads a day? Would the site really change that much? Are their really more than a handful of photographers that you would like to see more than 2 photos a day from?

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Old 05-10-2010, 04:27 AM   #33
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CB1 hit the nail on the head. Anyone that wants to have a photo blowout upload party should look into RRPA.
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Old 05-10-2010, 05:11 AM   #34
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Anyone that wants to have a photo blowout upload party should look into RRPA.
Anyone that wants to have a photo blowout upload party should look into getting their quality up to RP snuff and then have at it, have a wonderful time, enjoy themselves, and ignore the naysayers. I find the complaining about high frequency uploaders more objectionable than the complaining about lowered daily upload limits.

There are lots of ways to enjoy this hobby. People are different. While image quality/interest/artistry standards have a significant degree of objectivity to them despite the inherent subjectivity, as far as I can see there are few for the act of photography itself, beyond common decency, politeness in the photo lone, and avoidance of trespassing. If someone wants to upload a wedgie collection, I am highly likely to choose not to click on their shots, but I am not going to look down my nose at them. Their decision on quality vs. quantity affects only my viewing decision, not my judgment of their approach to this hobby.
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Old 05-10-2010, 05:17 AM   #35
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2 is fine on most day, granted that both get accepted, not always the case, very annoying to get 0 of 2 for nitpicky reasons that have to be fixed and then uploaded the next day.
However there are days where you really want to upload more. Case point; I still have alot of shots of the last run of the Great Walton Covington Branch that I dont know if ill bother uploading to RP since they have lost alot of their news value since its been more than half a year since, wouldve been nice to upload a photo series to RP of the run but had to save that for RRPA.
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Old 05-10-2010, 11:52 AM   #36
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Honestly, what would happen if all RP submitters had only 2 uploads a day?

- Chris
Or start them out at 3 or 4 and work up from there, Having a standard time frame that auto bumps them up to 10 unless held back. 1 is just punishment as most new guys wont get by in 1 upload or 2 but will stop photo dumping.
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Old 05-10-2010, 12:03 PM   #37
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Perhaps you should be more selective and only submit your "best" work. Someone recently told me that and he was correct. It gives you a better portfolio if you only submot your best photos.

Chase
Best work is what someone likes best and their view point of what's good and yours and mine are not the same, Can't be. We know what works on RP but thats not an end all in great photo's by my eye but works over a great number of photographers. As you get older your taste will chang some as will your ability to shoot. And as shots you wish you did back in the old days of ES 44 DC's in new paint?
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Old 05-10-2010, 12:59 PM   #38
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Honestly, what would happen if all RP submitters had only 2 uploads a day? Would the site really change that much?
Actually it would, we would have a lot more shots of St. Albans each day per average
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Old 05-10-2010, 03:24 PM   #39
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Actually it would, we would have a lot more shots of St. Albans each day per average
So I need to throw on more of my St. Albans collection?

Grade crossing wedgies until your heart's content...

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Old 05-10-2010, 03:26 PM   #40
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A few random thoughts on the subject of "upload jail", volume uploads and quality:
  • It seems that we see threads like this popping up about every two weeks. Rather than see yet another one next week, I'm in agreement with JRMDC. It would really help the photographer community if the site were to define the criteria for the imposition and/or removal of upload limits. It would help the more conscientious among us to either stay out of trouble or carefully work their way back into good graces. There's probably not much hope for the non-conscientious.
  • I'm not a fan of volume uploads. Not being a natural at this, I often spend a couple of evenings messing with a single shot until I get something I'm satisfied with. The only time I really care about my upload limit is after a charter, when everyone is racing to post all of the best angles. In that situation, a few days delay can mean the difference between an SCA and an STP. Otherwise, I average less than one per day.
  • I get a chuckle when I see posts about only uploading "your best". Anyone want to qualify that? Best 10 of the past year? Best 10 from yesterday? Best 1000 from a lifetime? Top 10%? To me, the goal is interesting, high-quality pictures. So when selecting a shot to submit to RP, the questions I prefer to ask are: "Is this shot interesting enough that folks will want to click on it?" and: "Does the shot meet the RP quality standards?"....in that order.
  • Ben's situation is probably the biggest concern that any of us has with the site. Being in "upload jail" isn't as much of a practical problem as it is a blow to one's pride. His list of accomplishments here, in light of his current situation, is evidence that any of us...even the long-timers....could go from the lead to the back of the pack if we're not careful. Obviously, I don't know what's gone on between Ben and the RP folks. The only gentle advice I would offer is not to let the rejections pile up. If you have five showing on the page within the last week, that's probably time to either take an RP vacation, or go back to basics. Five rejections in the bin, or three strikes on any shot and it's probably time to back off before you tee someone off.
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Old 05-10-2010, 04:02 PM   #41
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Honestly, what would happen if all RP submitters had only 2 uploads a day? Would the site really change that much? Are their really more than a handful of photographers that you would like to see more than 2 photos a day from?
Yeah, actually there are.

But I thought about the 2 shot upload a day limit and at first, it didn't sound like a bad idea, really. I wasn't gung ho about it. But if it meant 2 outstanding shots a day from everyone instead of ten average shots (two outstanding, two poor and six in between?) I was all for it.

And then I started thinking. First, cn you imagine the outcry on this board from folks bemoaning the new, two a day limit? We'd have a lot of irritated folks and I think it would run a lot of people off. The admins don't typically want to run a lot of people off, maybe a few bad apples here and there.

Finally, I thought about the actual uploads. Nikos touched on it in a way. You have two uploads a day meaning if two shots get canned, that's it for that day. So are you more willing or less willing to upload a shot that, while very good, might push the limits just a tad? Or would you be more willing to upload a well-lit, technically perfect but more boring wedgie that has a 90% shot of getting on?
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Old 05-10-2010, 04:03 PM   #42
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Put it this way. If you know you have all day to shoot, generally you're out there thinking of neat shots, different settings or locales or anything interesting? You can shoot multiple shots of the same train and if half of them don't work, fine, you still have a handful of exposures to pick the best one or two shots of the same train. But if you have an hour or if you find a train in a spot you want to shoot from while on the way home, to work, to school, etc. then you're going to pull off the road and shoot something simpler just to make sure you get a shot, any shot, of it. (You being in general here, not pointing at one guy in this analogy."

Same thing applies to RP. The fewer uploads, the more a photog will worry about his percentage rate instead of putting his best work here. So if that theory holds up, it would actually do the opposite of it's intentions. Instead of better shots on RP, it would mean more boring shots.
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Old 05-10-2010, 04:18 PM   #43
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And that's exactly it Joe, it's going to run people off. Including me. Why am I a bad little boy for trying to get a shot on that is shot down only 3 times? 4 out of the now 10 rejections have been fixed and put in the DB. I'm not looking for a pity party or anything but I'm pretty close to pulling my shots and account from the site. I know I should man up, stop being a little cry baby about it, but this is just insane. I can see doing this to someone who's just starting out, uploads wedge after wedge, cloudy after cloudy, blurry after blurry. I'm actually trying here, trying to improve over all and this only hampers it because lord only freaking knows what little flaw a screener is going to find in a shot that I don't see. After that one rejection, I'M DONE! I'm done for that day. And that's supposed to help? Uh uh, I don't think so.

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Old 05-10-2010, 05:05 PM   #44
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I'd say quit pushing the borderline shots so hard from now on. The limit will come back soon Ben.

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Old 05-10-2010, 05:14 PM   #45
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And that's exactly it Joe, it's going to run people off. Including me. Why am I a bad little boy for trying to get a shot a shot on that is shot down only 3 times?
Only three times? Really? How many times should a photo be allowed to be rejected before the submitter comes to understand that the screeners DO NOT want it? Five? Ten? Let's all upload our rejects ten times over and SEE WHAT HAPPENS.

You still don't seem to understand. You are trying to fix cloudy, and the only thing that can change that outcome is the cloud itself. It's not like a horizon rejection or a cropping rejection, both of which are invitations to fix and resubmit the photo. Cloudy, PEQ, angle are all things that shouldn't be "fixed" by playing screener roulette. Those are cases where you can appeal and try to explain why you feel the shot should be in the database.

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I know I should man up, stop being a little cry baby about it, but this is just insane. I can see doing this to someone who's just starting out, uploads wedge after wedge, cloudy after cloudy, blurry after blurry.
"Cloudy after cloudy." Does this ring a bell?

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I'm actually trying here, trying to improve over all and this only hampers it because lord only freaking knows what little flaw a screener is going to find in a shot that I don't see. After that one rejection, I'M DONE! I'm done for that day. And that's supposed to help? Uh uh, I don't think so.
Choose carefully. Do you know how many rejections I've had in the last year and a half? Hint ... it starts with "Z".
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Old 05-10-2010, 05:24 PM   #46
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Do you know how many rejections I've had in the last year and a half? Hint ... it starts with "Z".
A zillion? Because otherwise my BS meter is going crazy.
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Old 05-10-2010, 05:33 PM   #47
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Only three times? Really? How many times should a photo be allowed to be rejected before the submitter comes to understand that the screeners DO NOT want it? Five? Ten? Let's all upload our rejects ten times over and SEE WHAT HAPPENS.

You still don't seem to understand. You are trying to fix cloudy, and the only thing that can change that outcome is the cloud itself.
Let's separate the principle from the application. Yes, I too think Ben should have more quickly set the shot aside. But in general we have seen in this forum and heard described any number of instances where a difficult shot made it in after a number of rounds of rejections. And I do believe that someone on this forum has gone 10 rounds.

So it is a baby/bathwater thing. It is a matter of judgment as to whether to continue pursuing a shot. I think Ben judged incorrectly with the one shot in particular, but the process should be open to handle the exceptions. And it is necessary, to some extent, given that rejections don't come with commentary for additional guidance (which is also a necessary thing).
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Old 05-10-2010, 05:35 PM   #48
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Choose carefully. Do you know how many rejections I've had in the last year and a half? Hint ... it starts with "Z".
Come on man, really?

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Old 05-10-2010, 05:49 PM   #49
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This shot was rejected 5 times, and I am glad I kept pursuing it.
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I personally have had a problem with those trying to tell us to turn railroad photography into an "art form." It's fine for them to do so, I welcome it in fact, but what I do have a problem with is that the practitioners of the more "arty" shots, I have found, tend to look down their nose's at others who are shooting more "mundane" shots.
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Old 05-10-2010, 05:56 PM   #50
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A few random thoughts on the subject of "upload jail", volume uploads and quality:
  • It seems that we see threads like this popping up about every two weeks. Rather than see yet another one next week, I'm in agreement with JRMDC. It would really help the photographer community if the site were to define the criteria for the imposition and/or removal of upload limits. It would help the more conscientious among us to either stay out of trouble or carefully work their way back into good graces. There's probably not much hope for the non-conscientious.
Defining the criteria would certainly help, but it would be even better if they would show you what your current "status" is. Without knowing where you stand vs. the criteria at any given time wouldn't be all that usefull.
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