Old 03-08-2013, 03:09 AM   #1
mp16dot39
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 145
Default Some Disagreement and a Lack of Understanding

Hi all,

These 2 photos:

http://www.railpictures.net/viewreje...58&key=7886813
http://www.railpictures.net/viewreje...64&key=5974901

....were rejected for noise on my main account. After waiting a day or 2, I resubmitted them, only to have them both rejected without reason, and screener comments saying to make a new account strictly for the collection of photos (there are several of them). After making a new account immediately after, they were both once again rejected for graininess.

I do not understand what the reasoning for this is. Of course they are grainy, but they are also from 1940, when cameras that did exist usually weren't of the greatest quality. Several people who have seen the photos say they are good quality for their time, and the level of grain really isn't all that time compared to what many photos were. Under the advice from a few RP members, I appealed both photos. 3 days later, I have yet to see the results.

So my main question is, what about these vintage photos is turning them off? I have mentioned to them that these photos have never been released to the public, and that they have been handed down through the family. I have also made it very clear that I have permission to post them.

Bill
__________________
My Pics on RP
mp16dot39 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2013, 03:45 AM   #2
Chris Z
Senior Member
 
Chris Z's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Libertyville, Il
Posts: 937
Send a message via Skype™ to Chris Z
Default

I played around with one of your shots for about ten minutes and this is what I came up with. If you have a larger file, more can be done. There is still noise, but not nearly as much.



Chris Z
Chris Z is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2013, 05:00 AM   #3
Dennis A. Livesey
Senior Member
 
Dennis A. Livesey's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,986
Default

When you are new here, the acceptance process is rather obtuse and inexplicable. In time, when you have more accepted images here, you will start to see how RP works.

It is not so much that RP does not like the picture, it is that they want the image quality to be the best possible. So work on that.

Being honest, your slides image quality, particularly on the very interesting bridge shot, is rather rough looking. Yes, they are from not great camera's 60 years ago. But plenty of others in the same shape as yours look better than yours do now. Since slide scanning is an art into itself may I suggest you go back to the original again and start over?
__________________
Dennis

I Foam Therefore I Am.

My pix on RailPics:

I am on Flickr as well:

"Dennis is such a God, he could do that with a camera obscura and some homemade acetate." Holloran Grade

"To me it looks drawn in in Paintshop. It looks like a puddle of orange on the sky." SFO777
Dennis A. Livesey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2013, 07:57 AM   #4
Ween
Senior Member
 
Ween's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,861
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis A. Livesey View Post
When you are new here, the acceptance process is rather obtuse and inexplicable. In time, when you have more accepted images here, you will start to see how RP works.
Ummmmmm...
Quote:
Your search returned 128 photos.

By: Billster8724

Added: Jul 01, 2011

Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 138
I think he's been around the block for a bit...
__________________
Ween is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2013, 08:21 AM   #5
Mark T
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 92
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis A. Livesey View Post
When you are new here, the acceptance process is rather obtuse and inexplicable. In time, when you have more accepted images here, you will start to see how RP works.
Still doesn't mean you'll UNDERSTAND it!
__________________
My Railpictures.net

My flickr
Mark T is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2013, 01:02 PM   #6
JRMDC
Senior Member
 
JRMDC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 11,202
Default

I wish RP would more consistently reject in these cases where an image can be improved, especially a sky. Nice work, Chris!
__________________
My RP pix are here.
My Flickr pix are here.

My commentaries on rail pictures are in my blog.

RP Photo Albums:
Cabooses
Engine Details
Farm and Train
Plumes!
Railroad Details
Signal Details
Switchstand Shots
JRMDC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2013, 04:57 PM   #7
Dennis A. Livesey
Senior Member
 
Dennis A. Livesey's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,986
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ween View Post
Ummmmmm...


I think he's been around the block for a bit...
Point taken. In my defense I was too tired to do any research!

However, he was speaking in the voice of newbie so I went with that. Anyone who has been around here more than a few images has a different tone. That is one of resignation and not of indignation.
__________________
Dennis

I Foam Therefore I Am.

My pix on RailPics:

I am on Flickr as well:

"Dennis is such a God, he could do that with a camera obscura and some homemade acetate." Holloran Grade

"To me it looks drawn in in Paintshop. It looks like a puddle of orange on the sky." SFO777
Dennis A. Livesey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2013, 06:29 AM   #8
Indecline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 168
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis A. Livesey View Post
Point taken. In my defense I was too tired to do any research!

However, he was speaking in the voice of newbie so I went with that. Anyone who has been around here more than a few images has a different tone. That is one of resignation and not of indignation.
I dunno, when it comes to my old slides, I get a bit pissed off when I see real crap get accepted and yet, they don't like any of my old ones. So I have said @uck it, I won't waste my time submitting them. Digital, modern stuff, no problem. I just won't make the effort to post anything I shot in the early 70's through the 90's anymore. Yes, I get PO'd when I see some of the crap slide that are accepted.

DS
Indecline is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2013, 05:09 AM   #9
mp16dot39
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 145
Default

Conor Wiley was the account made specifically for this collection of photos, as per instruction by the screener at the time. This is the account I use mainly, and although I don't submit a whole lot anymore, I still roughly understand the ways of RP. The questions regarding these old slides was moreso regarding the site's willingness to accept lower quality modern catches, rather than never-released photos of a rail system that ceases to exist. I understand that mine are of low quality as well, but I didn't really figure they'd be that picky. I've given up on them however, as it's a losing battle. I still have them so thats all that really matters.

Bill
__________________
My Pics on RP
mp16dot39 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2013, 06:58 PM   #10
JimThias
Senior Member
 
JimThias's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 9,850
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mp16dot39 View Post
I understand that mine are of low quality as well, but I didn't really figure they'd be that picky. I've given up on them however, as it's a losing battle. I still have them so thats all that really matters.

Bill
The fix that Chris did looks very good compared to your rejection. Did you try that before giving up? I'd much rather look at his improvement than your original any day, regardless of what site it's posted on.

If you haven't tried that fix, I think you're giving up too easily.
JimThias is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2013, 01:44 AM   #11
Ron Flanary
Senior Member
 
Ron Flanary's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Big Stone Gap, VA
Posts: 1,327
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimThias View Post
The fix that Chris did looks very good compared to your rejection. Did you try that before giving up? I'd much rather look at his improvement than your original any day, regardless of what site it's posted on.

If you haven't tried that fix, I think you're giving up too easily.
I don't think they're being picky. As Jim and others have noted, these shots can be salvaged. I don't think anyone disputes the rare nature of these views.
Ron Flanary is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2013, 01:57 AM   #12
Ron Flanary
Senior Member
 
Ron Flanary's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Big Stone Gap, VA
Posts: 1,327
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Indecline View Post
I dunno, when it comes to my old slides, I get a bit pissed off when I see real crap get accepted and yet, they don't like any of my old ones. So I have said @uck it, I won't waste my time submitting them. Digital, modern stuff, no problem. I just won't make the effort to post anything I shot in the early 70's through the 90's anymore. Yes, I get PO'd when I see some of the crap slide that are accepted.

DS
Every few weeks I'll pull about 20 or so old slides and scan them for possible use on RP.net. Most of them end up making the cut---but it ain't easy. Old Kodachromes and Ektachromes don't scan very well, and it takes a lot of work to clean them up, improve the levels, colors, etc. And then you have to deal with grain as well. It ain't easy.

Not for a second would I dispute the skills of some of the younger photographers. But---they didn't have to learn photography the hard way (and to be truthful, I don't think many of them have mastered the mechanics today). Today's digital cameras will wipe your butt, tell you want your bank balance is, send flowers to your wife and play the second movement of Beethoven's 7th in stereo---as well as give you great photos. It's a walk in the park compared to the days of trying to nail an exposure with Kodachrome in questionable light, or quickly trying to change film to compensate for changing light conditions, or any of the other things necessary to yield good photos back then. If you missed the exposure a half f-stop or more---tough cookies. There were no "do overs," or checking exposures in the field before the train arrived. We used to crank off shots like they were gold, since you only had 36 frames on a standard roll of film. Today's younger guys can shoot 500 images to get the one they'll use. You delete the rest and start over.

And then, there's Photoshop. It's great, of course, because it will correct a multitude of sins (even with my old slide images). No doubt today's digital world is the equivalent of the "Easy" button. I know---because I've done it both ways. If the younger guys had to go back to film photography (plus, no Photoshop), they would fold like a cheap suit.

However---in my experience, I find that I have good results in having scans from my old slides accepted. I usually hit 95 percent or more acceptance. Of course some images are beyond redemption, so I just write those off and find more slides. I have untold thousands to choose from---50 years of photography in my case.
Ron Flanary is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2013, 06:11 AM   #13
Indecline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 168
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Flanary View Post
Every few weeks I'll pull about 20 or so old slides and scan them for possible use on RP.net. Most of them end up making the cut---but it ain't easy. Old Kodachromes and Ektachromes don't scan very well, and it takes a lot of work to clean them up, improve the levels, colors, etc. And then you have to deal with grain as well. It ain't easy.

Not for a second would I dispute the skills of some of the younger photographers. But---they didn't have to learn photography the hard way (and to be truthful, I don't think many of them have mastered the mechanics today). Today's digital cameras will wipe your butt, tell you want your bank balance is, send flowers to your wife and play the second movement of Beethoven's 7th in stereo---as well as give you great photos. It's a walk in the park compared to the days of trying to nail an exposure with Kodachrome in questionable light, or quickly trying to change film to compensate for changing light conditions, or any of the other things necessary to yield good photos back then. If you missed the exposure a half f-stop or more---tough cookies. There were no "do overs," or checking exposures in the field before the train arrived. We used to crank off shots like they were gold, since you only had 36 frames on a standard roll of film. Today's younger guys can shoot 500 images to get the one they'll use. You delete the rest and start over.

And then, there's Photoshop. It's great, of course, because it will correct a multitude of sins (even with my old slide images). No doubt today's digital world is the equivalent of the "Easy" button. I know---because I've done it both ways. If the younger guys had to go back to film photography (plus, no Photoshop), they would fold like a cheap suit.

However---in my experience, I find that I have good results in having scans from my old slides accepted. I usually hit 95 percent or more acceptance. Of course some images are beyond redemption, so I just write those off and find more slides. I have untold thousands to choose from---50 years of photography in my case.
I'm lucky to get 25% of my slides on. Most of them are pretty ok from a technical standpoint, but they don't like grain, color etc. Just not worth my time these days - have to many other things to get done that are a better use of my time.
Indecline is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2013, 01:55 AM   #14
Mgoldman
Senior Member
 
Mgoldman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,666
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Indecline View Post
I'm lucky to get 25% of my slides on. Most of them are pretty ok from a technical standpoint, but they don't like grain, color etc. Just not worth my time these days - have to many other things to get done that are a better use of my time.
Our loss...

We need an RP rejects site - BUT, one where enough favorites gets your image transferred back to RP, lol.

The linked rejected images are pretty - um, in need of some attention.

In both cases (Indecline and mp16dot39), wouldn't it go a long, long way if admin made a one time fix which resulted in long sought after rejections?

I'll bet "comments from the screener" would've gone a long way towards making many images worth while to re-edit and upload. Short of that, some rejections could be less vague, better worded or perhaps inclusive instructions on possible fixes (nothing extensive - maybe just links to a Google search of "noise reduction" "rule of thirds" "JPEG artifacts" for both the newbies and those who have not yet become fully accustomed to digital editing techniques - hell, the site's owners could probably make a mint sponsoring "Neat Image").

With that in mind - check out these links:

http://www.neatimage.com/

http://www.picturecode.com/index.php

http://www.niksoftware.com/dfine/usa/entry.php

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&sugexp=...w=1239&bih=659

(Look Chris - Neat Image paid big bucks to show up as #1 in Google, send me a Canon 5D Mark III and we'll call it even. Or let me upload my "Dog on a Train).

/Mitch

/Mitch
Mgoldman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2013, 10:51 PM   #15
jac_murphy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 378
Default

I use the free version of Neat Image on my photos before processing them. It works fairly well, but it only allows you to save as a JPEG. I immediately re-save as a TIFF before I start working on them, but there must be somewhat of a loss of quality.

Mitch, I might take a look at some of the options in your list, there... thanks!

-Jacques
jac_murphy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 01:57 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.