Old 06-01-2014, 04:03 PM   #1
colmat91
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Default Composition/Balance

Looking for some help on the attached pic. It was rejected for,

- Poor lighting (Cloudy): Common angle cloudy day shots of common/standard power are generally not accepted.

Which makes sense, I can reshoot it on a different day, But it was also rejected for,

- Composition/Balance: The composition of this photo is poor relating to the overall balance of the image.

Any thoughts on what to be done differently to make it better? I think it the composition is good and was a bit surprised by this rejection. However I am a bit partial to this particular depot so that may be altering my perception of the pic. Thanks for any advice!

Matt
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Old 06-01-2014, 04:44 PM   #2
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I see it being more of a bad cropping issue (even if this is the way you composed it in camera) as it feels incomplete on the right. You need to go wider with this scene. The left side is fine, but let's see the road and the train trailing off in the distance on the right. Cut-off trains wedgies, especially when shown this close, aren't generally accepted on RP (and aren't generally appealing).

Be partial to the depot...it's very cool and I don't blame you. You just need to catch this train (or another) in better light.

Where is this location? Perhaps we can help you figure out a better time of day/year to get his shot in relation to the sun angle.
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Old 06-01-2014, 04:59 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by JimThias View Post
I see it being more of a bad cropping issue (even if this is the way you composed it in camera) as it feels incomplete on the right. You need to go wider with this scene. The left side is fine, but let's see the road and the train trailing off in the distance on the right. Cut-off trains wedgies, especially when shown this close, aren't generally accepted on RP (and aren't generally appealing).

Be partial to the depot...it's very cool and I don't blame you. You just need to catch this train (or another) in better light.

Where is this location? Perhaps we can help you figure out a better time of day/year to get his shot in relation to the sun angle.
I agree completely..... train cut off way too abruptly.
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Old 06-01-2014, 05:17 PM   #4
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Tastes differ. I don't understand this "train cut off" thing some viewers seem to have.
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Old 06-01-2014, 05:38 PM   #5
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Tastes differ. I don't understand this "train cut off" thing some viewers seem to have.
It's unappealing to my eyes and the eyes of many others.

Maybe Mitch will chime and break down even more for you.
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Old 06-01-2014, 06:19 PM   #6
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It's unappealing to my eyes and the eyes of many others.
Many? Oh, I don't know.
I can't stand open nose doors, litter, graffiti, watermarks, train colliding with the edge of the frame, etc. But "train cut off"? My eyes are not offended. I would have shot this exactly the same. Reframe to show more train? Presto! Another cookie-cutter boring wedgie.
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Old 06-01-2014, 06:48 PM   #7
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Cardinal rule of rail photography, don't cut off the train, this has been a rule since K25 ruled supreme.

Miningcamper sounds almost like HG
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Old 06-01-2014, 07:27 PM   #8
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Cardinal rule of rail photography, don't cut off the train, this has been a rule since K25 ruled supreme.

Miningcamper sounds almost like HG
Yeah, I know, sun-over-the-shoulder, rods down, etc.
Maybe that's why I came to like breakers of arbitrary rules over the years (Steinheimer, Plowden & company, not known for boring wedgies).

Maybe HG sounds almost like me 'cause I was breaking "rules" before him?
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Old 06-01-2014, 07:46 PM   #9
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Rules are meant to be broken and we do it all the time, but it has to work. And for this shot it does not work.

For most "basic" shots breaking the rules doesn't work. When you are outside of basic, then have at it.

You want to shoot from the dark side, your shot better be more than just a boring 3/4 wedge, you want to cut a train off, it better be more than a 3/4 wedge with a train station in it, stuff like that. Stein or Plowden or Mel Patrick did nothing that was as simple as that.
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Old 06-01-2014, 09:06 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by miningcamper1 View Post
Presto! Another cookie-cutter boring wedgie.
As opposed to another cookie-cutter boring incomplete wedgie, which you oddly prefer? No thank you.

And yes, many. I'm sure if a poll was conducted, that "many" would be verified (by a landslide, in fact).

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Originally Posted by miningcamper1 View Post
Yeah, I know, sun-over-the-shoulder, rods down, etc.
Maybe that's why I came to like breakers of arbitrary rules over the years (Steinheimer, Plowden & company, not known for boring wedgies).

Funny thing is, many of these "rules" were common sense to me before I'd even heard of any of those photographers. (although I disagree with the "rods down" thing.)
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Old 06-01-2014, 11:55 PM   #11
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As opposed to another cookie-cutter boring incomplete wedgie, which you oddly prefer? No thank you.

And yes, many. I'm sure if a poll was conducted, that "many" would be verified (by a landslide, in fact).




Funny thing is, many of these "rules" were common sense to me before I'd even heard of any of those photographers. (although I disagree with the "rods down" thing.)
"Sun over the shoulder, rods down" referred to Lucius Beebe's "rules", not Steinheimer or Plowden.

And a poll? Maybe if you polled purists, you would find agreement.
But how about the folks who gave this 44,000+ views and 93 faves?

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Think they care about "rule of thirds" or any train cut-off issue?
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Old 06-01-2014, 11:58 PM   #12
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If there were guys fishing in a boat it would still be a great shot.
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Old 06-02-2014, 12:37 AM   #13
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If there were guys fishing in a boat it would still be a great shot.
Ignoring the ladies, you have a distant, centered, out of focus pumpkin under heavy overcast.
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Old 06-02-2014, 12:59 AM   #14
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Thanks for the tips. This is in Middlesex Vermont, for the next two weeks the sun will be in a good spot to shoot this. Unfortunatly, the only two daylight trains are Amtrak (one in each direction, am and pm) so I'm stuck shooting this train at 9:58am for now. I guess I'll try a different angle to and get more of the train in. It is a tough location; just out of the frame to the right is a lumber yard storage area, just above is several power lines, and stepping to the left will put me down on the road (currently standing on a 6' retaning wall) and may expose the small radio tower shack currently behind the locomotive (radio tower cloned out or it would be growing out of the top of the train). Just another one of lifes small challenges. Thanks again.
Matt
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Old 06-02-2014, 01:03 AM   #15
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Ignoring the ladies, you have a distant, centered, out of focus pumpkin under heavy overcast.
Shoot the scene, not the train. It's like some of you have never seen a bare back before.
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Old 06-02-2014, 01:07 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by miningcamper1 View Post
Many? Oh, I don't know.
I can't stand open nose doors, litter, graffiti, watermarks, train colliding with the edge of the frame, etc. But "train cut off"? My eyes are not offended. I would have shot this exactly the same. Reframe to show more train? Presto! Another cookie-cutter boring wedgie.
Like I said before, in this particular case I just find the train cut off way too abruptly on the right.
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Old 06-02-2014, 03:11 AM   #17
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"Sun over the shoulder, rods down" referred to Lucius Beebe's "rules", not Steinheimer or Plowden.
Well, I hadn't heard of any of them until just a few years ago, so whatever their "rules" or methods were, they had no influence on me.

Quote:
And a poll? Maybe if you polled purists, you would find agreement.
But how about the folks who gave this 44,000+ views and 93 faves?

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PhotoID:
Photograph ©


Think they care about "rule of thirds" or any train cut-off issue?
Not sure what the point of that example is. It surely isn't about a cut off train.

Girls, and especially half-naked girls, garner lots of views on RP. And views are what matter most to the owners of this site.
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Old 06-02-2014, 05:10 AM   #18
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Well, I hadn't heard of any of them until just a few years ago, so whatever their "rules" or methods were, they had no influence on me.



Not sure what the point of that example is. It surely isn't about a cut off train.

Girls, and especially half-naked girls, garner lots of views on RP. And views are what matter most to the owners of this site.
The point of the girl shot is that a multitude of faults didn't keep it from getting on, getting views, and getting faves. I could have just as well selected from "wrecks and Darwins" (Mitch's non-favorites).

There is NO agreement on what a good photo is. We could have similar arguments about level/unlevel, HDR rocks/HDR sucks, tight crop/loose crop, sunny side/dark (dramatic!) side, how long shadows can be, how many weeds are allowed in front of an engine, etc.

Oh, did I mention that I think the girl shot is awful as a train picture? (Not sure what site it would fit, certainly not a skin site- too tame.)
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Old 06-02-2014, 05:23 AM   #19
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Again, shoot the scene, not the train.
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Old 06-02-2014, 07:45 AM   #20
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Again, shoot the scene, not the train.
But that's just what Colmat did- shot the scene. One Amcan behind an ugly P42 is plenty!
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