Old 06-24-2011, 02:25 PM   #1
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Note the comment. Do people really need to drag up the global warming debate during a time like this?



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Old 06-24-2011, 02:54 PM   #2
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global warming has everyone a bit edgy.
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Old 06-24-2011, 02:55 PM   #3
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Note the comment. Do people really need to drag up the global warming debate during a time like this?



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There must have been global warming in 1881 when the last comparable flood was or did they blame that on something else?

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Old 06-24-2011, 03:28 PM   #4
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Two topics here. 1) should RP comments be used for debate on non-RP issues
2) What is the truth - as best we know it now - about global climate change.

Carl is unhappy about 1), but Travis is basically referring to 2).

I am tempted to get into 2), but I will demur. As for 1), I don't think that the impact of an RP comment is so substantial that one can't let ride a non-vile comment whose content or timing one disagrees with. And besides, what determines a "right" or "wrong" time to raise an issue?
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Old 06-24-2011, 03:30 PM   #5
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Note the comment. Do people really need to drag up the global warming debate during a time like this?



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I dont know, do people have to post racist stuff like they did in one of Hollaran Grade's pictures of a woman in a burka standing on a platform?
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Old 06-24-2011, 04:24 PM   #6
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1) should RP comments be used for debate on non-RP issues
J,

It's more than this, it's just the fact that it feels like whenever something like this happens, people use it as an argument for the topic, seemingly avoiding the fact that people are actually being affected. In the case of the person who left the comment, I don't doubt that he knows that people are affected, but should global warming really take priority over it when posting a comment?

Nowadays, IMO, things like this actually hurt the viewpoint, because it makes it seem like people are looking harder and harder for a reason to argue that it's happening.

Just remember, in one of the recent salmonella outbreaks in tomatoes, someone tried to blame it on global warming.

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Old 06-24-2011, 04:42 PM   #7
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It's more than this, it's just the fact that it feels like whenever something like this happens, people use it as an argument for the topic, seemingly avoiding the fact that people are actually being affected. In the case of the person who left the comment, I don't doubt that he knows that people are affected, but should global warming really take priority over it when posting a comment?
to which I respond by quoting myself

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And besides, what determines a "right" or "wrong" time to raise an issue?
To follow up on that, without - hopefully - getting into the topic of global climate change itself, when a (possibly) climate-related incident occurs, isn't that a good time to give the issue attention? The public will not pay attention at other times. Just like we have a bunch of attention now on nuclear plant safety; the public didn't much care a year ago. Certainly specialists were paying attention, but not the public.

Now, I probably agree that an RP comment section is a poor place for that debate to occur, but I'm not going to get irritated because it gets mentioned.

And I think you do make a reasonable point about having some sort of respectful distance between the event and the analysis of cause. At the same time, in a few weeks or months the flood will have subsided and there will be no issue with respect and with the presence of the comment on the page at that time.

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Nowadays, IMO, things like this actually hurt the viewpoint, because it makes it seem like people are looking harder and harder for a reason to argue that it's happening.

Just remember, in one of the recent salmonella outbreaks in tomatoes, someone tried to blame it on global warming.
Well, without getting into the debate, or maybe I am , I think the "harder and harder" is more a matter that it is easier and easier to see, compared to 10 or 20 years ago. So "harder and harder" makes it clear that you fall on one side of the debate, and that affects your perception.

Just like "tried to blame", when in fact it may be a reasonable scientific conclusion that higher average ambient temperatures mean that certain bacteria, or molds or whatever, can survive on/in a piece of fruit. To me the phrase "tried to blame" has a connotation of stretching the truth, which may or may not have been the case in that argument. Don't know, didn't read about it.
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Old 06-24-2011, 05:40 PM   #8
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Probably best, as my grandmother always said, not to discuss politics, religion or money... the facts are the facts, no matter how much anyone argues them, so I personally think the arguing is itself pointless (not directed at Carl or J, by the way - a 100% general statement).

I do agree that political statements probably are innapropriate in comments on pictures, but this is a free country with freedom of speech, so I don't think it's up to me or anyone to tell someone else that they can or cannot do that.

Whatever your stance on the issues, getting pelted by someone else's stance in an unexpected location or during a tragedy is going to make you angry.
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Old 07-21-2011, 09:03 PM   #9
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My apologies for the 'bump' but I feel I should give my side of the comment, for I was the poster.

Anyways I was wondering around the forum just looking around since I Just joined the forums a few days ago, and I found this about the comment that I posted on Steven's photo of BNSF alongside the flood in Minot, ND.

To Mr. Becker, my apologies if my comment offended you in any way and I assure you that I posted said comment knowing of course that thousands of people are affected by these natural disasters. Maybe "Global Warming" wasn't the best term. I was merely stating, with all these other natural disasters that kept popping up like the tsunami in Japan, flooding in the United States, all these Tornado warnings I hear about from colleagues in the states, and this "heat dome" that is leading to these scorching temps were having right now(among others), it makes me think what is happening with the climate. It of course could just be a coincidence that all these things happened around the same couple of months but it just made me wonder whats going on and what we will possibly be experiencing in the next 20-40 years.

Again my apologies and condolences,
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Old 07-22-2011, 06:32 PM   #10
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Cameron, when debating something like the global temperature, anecdotal events are irrelevant. In fact, you could say the exact opposite about what happened both of the last two winters: we've seen horrendous amounts of snow. Actually, it's my understanding that the flooding is a result of said quantities of snow melting. Here's my own example:

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I live in Clemson, SC and we got 6 in. of snow this year in one night. That's the most we'd seen in 25 years. That could be used as anecdotal evidence in opposition of global warming/climate change.

This is all I'm trying to say: Anecdotal evidence is irrelevant to a debate over global temperature. I'm not taking a side in the debate, at the moment.
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Old 07-22-2011, 07:09 PM   #11
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I live in Clemson, SC and we got 6 in. of snow this year in one night. That's the most we'd seen in 25 years. That could be used as anecdotal evidence in opposition of global warming/climate change.

This is all I'm trying to say: Anecdotal evidence is irrelevant to a debate over global temperature. I'm not taking a side in the debate, at the moment.
Agree re anecdotal evidence. But a correction, the Clemson anecdote is probably one in favor of the presence of global climate change, which is a phenomenon of overall warming but localized changes in weather in all sorts of ways in shorter periods of time.
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Old 07-22-2011, 07:46 PM   #12
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Agree re anecdotal evidence. But a correction, the Clemson anecdote is probably one in favor of the presence of global climate change, which is a phenomenon of overall warming but localized changes in weather in all sorts of ways in shorter periods of time.
Re:the correction: My point exactly. More snow may sound like colder weather but it doesn't have to be. Basically, anecdotal evidence is completely unreliable.
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Old 07-22-2011, 08:06 PM   #13
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Basically, anecdotal evidence is completely unreliable.
Exactly
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I live in Clemson, SC and we got 6 in. of snow this year in one night. That's the most we'd seen in 25 years. That could be used as anecdotal evidence in opposition of global warming/climate change.
And then someone would then come back and say, "Yeah, but it's 103 in South Carolina today. See. Global warming." I do love it when I hear this type of "logic" on Rush Limbaugh and those other clone shows from the right.
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Old 07-22-2011, 10:34 PM   #14
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I'm not saying every little odd weather thing is related to global warming, and I'm not saying Global Warming is a all-of-a-sudden thing that has some sort of 'due date'. Maybe all these natural disasters in quick succession is just a coincidence. I'm not saying it's fact. Maybe my comment was too literal, again my apologies... It just makes me wonder when every few weeks something horrific has happened in some far-away country..

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Old 07-23-2011, 05:35 AM   #15
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Maybe all these natural disasters in quick succession is just a coincidence.
Some would argue on the side of Biblical prophecy, the whole analogy to birth pangs.

But, as someone who has a degree in meteorology and has studied climate, I'll continue to sit back and laugh at all you man-caused global warmists. Go green while somebody else rakes in your green for being dumb...
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Old 07-23-2011, 11:30 AM   #16
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Some would argue on the side of Biblical prophecy, the whole analogy to birth pangs.

But, as someone who has a degree in meteorology and has studied climate, I'll continue to sit back and laugh at all you man-caused global warmists. Go green while somebody else rakes in your green for being dumb...
Your degree entitles you to an opinion, but it also obligates you, or at least puts you in an excellent position, to consider just how many meteorologists and climate researchers see the man-caused element of climate changes to be significant and a huge problem. What do you think they are missing while they are doing their research and you are flying around in the sky? (My apologies for the error is that is not your current profession.)
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Old 07-23-2011, 11:44 AM   #17
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I do agree that political statements probably are innapropriate in comments on pictures, but this is a free country with freedom of speech, so I don't think it's up to me or anyone to tell someone else that they can or cannot do that.
Except...freedom of speech does not apply to private websites/forums.

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I live in Clemson, SC and we got 6 in. of snow this year in one night. That's the most we'd seen in 25 years. That could be used as anecdotal evidence in opposition of global warming/climate change.
Well, you know, all that extremely cold weather and record amounts of snow is because of...global warming!
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Old 07-23-2011, 05:07 PM   #18
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Some would argue on the side of Biblical prophecy, the whole analogy to birth pangs.

But, as someone who has a degree in meteorology and has studied climate, I'll continue to sit back and laugh at all you man-caused global warmists. Go green while somebody else rakes in your green for being dumb...
Chris,

Would you, based on your degree and expertise, rather than high-level pop-culture opinion, explain why 97% of scientists and 100% of peer-reviewed articles find a correlation between human activity and the present climate changes and you find those opinions and research to all be flawed?

Please include empirical evidence for those of us without such a degree.

Charles
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Old 07-23-2011, 07:12 PM   #19
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A lot of people have degrees in a subject they are not active in or too grossly incompetent to practice in.
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Old 07-24-2011, 05:23 AM   #20
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Chris,

Would you, based on your degree and expertise, rather than high-level pop-culture opinion, explain why 97% of scientists and 100% of peer-reviewed articles find a correlation between human activity and the present climate changes and you find those opinions and research to all be flawed?

Please include empirical evidence for those of us without such a degree.

Charles
Here's my evidence:

$$$$$$$$$

It's all about money. Who profits from causing people to think "we're causing the planet to get warmer but you can stop by going green!!!"

No one wants to talk about previous ice ages...what caused them, why did they go away; the whole climate deal is one giant cycle. Everything we've seen before, we'll see again, from sun spots to the magnetic reversal of the poles.

And honestly, you seriously can't tell me that all of us create a larger impact on the planet's weather/climate than, say, one or two volcanos cooking off. Get real.

And, with all the modeling and predictions that are out there, can you really say you truly believe them? I mean, you don't know what the weather's going to be next weekend based on a supercomputer's interpretation of millions of variables let alone what the planet's climate is going to look like 20 years from now.

So, yeah, go green. I totally trust people telling me what to do when there's a profit in it for them...
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Old 07-24-2011, 05:31 AM   #21
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Old 07-24-2011, 05:56 AM   #22
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Here's my evidence:

$$$$$$$$$

It's all about money. Who profits from causing people to think "we're causing the planet to get warmer but you can stop by going green!!!"

No one wants to talk about previous ice ages...what caused them, why did they go away; the whole climate deal is one giant cycle. Everything we've seen before, we'll see again, from sun spots to the magnetic reversal of the poles.

And honestly, you seriously can't tell me that all of us create a larger impact on the planet's weather/climate than, say, one or two volcanos cooking off. Get real.

And, with all the modeling and predictions that are out there, can you really say you truly believe them? I mean, you don't know what the weather's going to be next weekend based on a supercomputer's interpretation of millions of variables let alone what the planet's climate is going to look like 20 years from now.

So, yeah, go green. I totally trust people telling me what to do when there's a profit in it for them...
Thanks, but I wasn't looking for a regurgitation of media outlets. I was hoping you'd provide us something from your education.

Honestly, I don't mind that some folk believe what they believe. In fact, it's great that we are able to argue things in this country.

Maybe if you hadn't ignored the fact that 97% of scientists are on one side and cannot possibly all be making money for their point of view, while many of the 3% who are on the other side are being paid oodles of money to "disprove" the theory, your dollars idea would make more sense.

I mean, there's tons and tons and tons of money to be made by proving it doesn't exist, so the money versus money argument really can't even hold a drop of water.

I'm a layman. I can't possibly know. You are a trained meteorologist with a degree (I assume from an outstanding university). You could make a great argument that the world is flat or that the sun revolves around the earth and I'd have no way to prove you wrong. I have no degree in science. I only have what I am told by scientists.

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Old 07-24-2011, 02:53 PM   #23
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Chris,

Would you, based on your degree and expertise, rather than high-level pop-culture opinion, explain why 97% of scientists and 100% of peer-reviewed articles find a correlation between human activity and the present climate changes and you find those opinions and research to all be flawed?
Charles, can you provide a link to the list of 97% of scientists?
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Old 07-24-2011, 03:20 PM   #24
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Chris, I am embarrassed for you, you say you have an education related to the topic and that is the best you can do?
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Old 07-24-2011, 04:54 PM   #25
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Chris, I am embarrassed for you, you say you have an education related to the topic and that is the best you can do?
Like I said, a lot of people have degrees in a subject they are not active in or too grossly incompetent to practice in.
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