Old 07-22-2008, 06:21 AM   #1
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Default The wrath of the "blurry" screener!

I got a screener last night that loved the "blurry" button, and loved giving an excessive amount of rejections. So here is the photos:

http://www.railpictures.net/viewreje...key=1093771918
http://www.railpictures.net/viewreje...d=551157&key=0
http://www.railpictures.net/viewreje...&key=856689272
http://www.railpictures.net/viewreje...&key=229737710
http://www.railpictures.net/viewreje...d=551532&key=0

I'm starting to find the 'blurry' rejection almost as abused as the "High Sun" rejection. Now I know some of you are going to zoom into this photo until each pixel can be identified by it's first name, but from this perspective, I see no way that these photos could be labeled as being blurry.

By blurry, I think of it being hard to read engine numbers, because the numbers are so blurred that they mix in with each other and create gibberish. I think of background items being hardly visible. In none of these is that a problem. Maybe to some of you "crude" members, you will say something to the effect that the background items in my photos are hard to see, but I think not. I know you guys quite well.

I can see the bad color in a couple of these, but as for the blurriness, I see none if it. I don't see the "Poor Image Quality" too well either. I don't want to get started on ISO, F-stop or shutter speed in this thread, just tell me what I can do in Photoshop to improve these photos. Don't answer with the word "nothing." In my shot of NS 7673, a TERRIBLE storm was brewing the background with 70 mph winds. Rain can be seen in the distance down the length of the train. I don't necessarily see Poor Image Quality here, but oh well. And help would be appreciated.

Thanks

...............
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Old 07-22-2008, 06:35 AM   #2
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Get.
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Camera.
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Old 07-22-2008, 08:57 AM   #3
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Give me the money. I am tiring of people telling me that on this forum. Money does not grow on trees. And before someone makes the comment that money is made out of paper, which comes from trees, let me say that I should be receiving a Canon Digital Rebel XTi soon. You guys seem to disregard the fact and have trouble accepting that I am young, rely on my parents, and if there are bills or some such payment that they have, they hold off on my camera until afterwards. Yes, for those with ultra memories, I was supposed to get the Rebel for Christmas, but the order for it got canceled because my mom got let go from her job, as they were letting her whole company department go, and we were shorter on money around Christmas time. We couldn't afford the camera then, so it got delayed, and we still haven't had the time or money to get a new one, so lay off. Please.

Anyways, any other help or advice on these photos would be appreciated.
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Old 07-22-2008, 09:06 AM   #4
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Your shots are much better, may try more sharping. and a boost of color to, may teak the cropping to on one, Yea its not fare to be broke may need a job at mickydes, having cash for gas comes in handy.
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Old 07-22-2008, 09:14 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by trainboysd40
Get.
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Camera.
Okay man, I'd like to know where you get off douching on someone else's equipment.

Nothing worse then a hollier then thou gearhead.

Unfortunately, the screener is right, these are blurry, but could be helped by a sharpening. The first and second I dig, even though the second has the train in the middle of the frame I'd sharpen it in photoshop and resubmit it, if it gets dinged again, no biggie. Just because RP wont take it doesn't make it a bad picture, just not one up to there standards. The last one has some real contrast issues going on, the fourth looks like it was taken after the sun went away for the evening and has that milky look.
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Old 07-22-2008, 09:14 AM   #6
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Yeah, I'm sorry I kind of got upset in the last message. I just don't like hearing anything regarding getting a new camera here, because no-one thinks of realization really. Plus, I wouldn't want to offend the 'Supreme Overlord' of "Lords of the High Iron." In other words, Matt.
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Old 07-22-2008, 09:29 AM   #7
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It is the ART of seeing as you shoot and now in PS to you have to SEE past what you like and bump it up a notch. You will get it or get there if you don't give up or get huffy about it. I started out with a CHEEEEP 110 it was all junk so i Know where your coming from.
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Old 07-22-2008, 10:31 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by alstom
I'm starting to find the 'blurry' rejection almost as abused as the "High Sun" rejection.
When the correction involves simply sharpening more, how can the judgment be "abused"? Take one more step in processing and you could be just fine.

New camera: well, it's a tradeoff for RP. Allow poorer quality images and you can bring in more people who are not able to get better cameras at this time. But then there are images of poorer quality on the database. The fact is that the mininum quality level on RP has crept up, matching the average quality level of cameras on the market. "Get a new camera" is good and correct (but not necessarily the only) advice. Don't be so personally offended if you are not able to act on that advice at this time - no one here is out to get you or mock you or whatever.

1: in addition to blurry, it looks weird, like an overuse of shadows/highlights.
2: nice shot, hope it gets in with a bit of sharpening. But something is happening on the left side with extra blur.
3: I hope you can sharpen it up, but it also has too much grass at the bottom. Also, there is a dust artifact just below the cloud on the left side.
4: sky color looks off, too much grass
5: yes, there is a storm, but the storm does not cause what looks to be an overuse of shadows/highlights. And it isn't sharp, not close. Look at the ballast.

I can see you having a complaint on blurriness on #1 and especially 2 (but sharpen a bit more and see what happens) but the rest, blurry, and #5 is just bad in that dimension, sorry to say.
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Old 07-22-2008, 10:50 AM   #9
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[quote=JRMDC]


2: But something is happening on the left side with extra blur.

I think more is going on here, IIRC he dropped it and think the lens is tweaked adding to the over all lack of sharpness in his shots? Maybe time to just junk it, sorry
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Old 07-22-2008, 02:34 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dump The Air
Okay man, I'd like to know where you get off douching on someone else's equipment.

Nothing worse then a hollier then thou gearhead.
I have seen more blurry rejections from him than anyone else, and I know for a fact that it's not 'user error'. It has absolutely nothing to do with being better than anyone, and everything to do with a camera producing substandard photos and holding a great photographer in the making back.
Quote:
Originally Posted by alstom
Yeah, I'm sorry I kind of got upset in the last message. I just don't like hearing anything regarding getting a new camera here, because no-one thinks of realization really. Plus, I wouldn't want to offend the 'Supreme Overlord' of "Lords of the High Iron." In other words, Matt.
Shoosh, even I haven't been on that forum in years
I can't believe I'm saying this, especially coming from ME, but "when I was your age"...I got a job, earned not quite four hundred dollars, and bought a camera that got 95 photos past the screeners before I moved on to better places.
I never said that you need a top of the line DSLR and L lenses to get good pictures. All that I'm saying is that his photos are blurry at 1/500th F/8, and that can only mean the tool he's using for the job is dull.
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Old 07-22-2008, 02:41 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alstom
I'm starting to find the 'blurry' rejection almost as abused as the "High Sun" rejection.
That's poppycock. There's no abuse going on here. Your shots reslly are blurry. Sorry.
Quote:
Originally Posted by alstom
By blurry, I think of it being hard to read engine numbers, because the numbers are so blurred that they mix in with each other and create gibberish. I think of background items being hardly visible. In none of these is that a problem. Maybe to some of you "crude" members, you will say something to the effect that the background items in my photos are hard to see, but I think not. I know you guys quite well.
That's a very liberal definition of blurry. Blurry does not mean you can't make out numbers of other idenifiers. It just means it's blurry. Some of thes shots *might* can be saved, I don't know. But it's not up to the screeners or this web site to make excuses for your camera. If your camera is not up to taking RP-worthy pictures, then stop uploading them until you can get a better camera.


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Old 07-22-2008, 03:06 PM   #12
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I am tiring of people telling me that on this forum...You guys seem to disregard the fact and have trouble accepting that I am young
Richard, look at it this way: maybe there are some who are tired of these multi-rejection threads you start, how you blame the screening standards, and when people offer up advice, you're still making the same mistakes months down the road. Before I get accused of douching your posts in the forums, I'm not saying that's necessarily you.

Your camera is holding you back, but just because you don't have the means to get a new camera doesn't mean the standards should be changed because of that or the fact that you are young. Because your camera isn't capable of creating RP-quality shots on a consistent basis, don't be surprised when your stuff gets rejected. Instead, concentrate your efforts trackside to perfecting the use of lighting, perfecting composition, practicing good techniques. That way, when you do get a new camera, you'll have the equipment that produces consistent results coupled with a honed technique...
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Old 07-22-2008, 04:11 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Ween
Richard, look at it this way: maybe there are some who are tired of these multi-rejection threads you start, how you blame the screening standards, and when people offer up advice, you're still making the same mistakes months down the road. Before I get accused of douching your posts in the forums, I'm not saying that's necessarily you.

Your camera is holding you back, but just because you don't have the means to get a new camera doesn't mean the standards should be changed because of that or the fact that you are young. Because your camera isn't capable of creating RP-quality shots on a consistent basis, don't be surprised when your stuff gets rejected. Instead, concentrate your efforts trackside to perfecting the use of lighting, perfecting composition, practicing good techniques. That way, when you do get a new camera, you'll have the equipment that produces consistent results coupled with a honed technique...

Richard, what exactly would you like to hear? Digital photography is a process. 10 years ago when everyone was shooting slide film you had to get it right the first time. There was no post processing involved. That means the ISO, f stop, and shutter speed all had to be correct when you pushed the button. Now that the world has moved into digital there are many new tools for photographers to use, but, the basics still need to be done correctly.

I understand you are younger and can't afford to run out and buy all the newest photo gear, so telling you to buy a new camera won't help anyone. I think that saying your photos are 'blurry' is also not correct. They look very soft to me but I don't see much blur.

If you want to know what to do in PS to fix up your photos you need to find a work flow. The first thing you need to do in PS is adjust the levels. This will correct the black vs. white as well as make the image look the way you saw it when you were there in person. It will make black black and white white. You can also adjust the brightness. The second tool you need to learn is the color balance tool. This tool can be a bit difficult to master as colors sometimes look different on various monitors and it can be hard to make it look correct. This tool requires a good amount of practice but once you understand how it works it will fix most of your color problems you have.
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Old 07-22-2008, 06:40 PM   #14
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Alright, I admit, I don't necessarily understand the 'blurry' rejection. If what you are describing is their definition of 'blurry', why don't they just call it 'soft?'

I was never saying that they needed to change standards or anything like that because of my age or camera gear. I was responding to Matt only. Not anyone here, or RP. I just get tired of hearing that I need a new camera. You guys say it in every one of my threads, and I get the point already. I am just asking if there is anything I can do to save these photos, if not, then I'll let them go. Stop bringing up about getting a new camera.

And if it really bothers you so much, I won't continue making threads to ask for advice. I always get the same answers anyways. I am just kind of upset at the moment. When I get the Canon, I expect to do better. I do think alot of location, lighting and composition, which you guys deliberately overlook. I was with a "Forest City Division Railroad Enthusiast (RRE)" member this day, and since you guys don't know, the RRE is a group of elite film photographers of Northeast Ohio. They happen to think about location and such, so being with one of them, I went to locations with grain elevators and other backgrounds.

If RP would stop being hung-up over 100% perfect nose light, which I know you guys are too, I would have alot more acceptances. The RRE and many other photographers I know, don't see half the nose being lit as a problem. Now I know that this is the way RP is, and they won't change. I understand, no need to explain it to me!! But fact of the matter is, if I am satisfied with my photos, I honestly don't care what RP thinks.

I just try to get my photos on RP to show my friends that I can. Alot of people are impressed I even have photos on this website. I never think well of my photos, I always think there is something to be improved. So I try, and here is where you guys are correct, this camera is a piece of you-know-what. I want to smash it at times (yes, I know that won't help anything, but you know what I mean), and have dropped it before, causing some dust on the sensor, and rather soft and blurry images. Trust me, you will NEVER see me trackside with this camera again after I get the Canon. Just give me some time. Until then, I WILL NOT cease submitting photos I think have a chance or a semi-good chance, so you will have to put up with it.

Sorry to be rude.
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Old 07-22-2008, 06:54 PM   #15
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Until then, I WILL NOT cease submitting photos I think have a chance or a semi-good chance, so you will have to put up with it.
Quote:
I always get the same answers anyways.
If you keep getting rejections on photos that appear to have similar problems and when you ask for advice here in the forums and you keep getting the same answers then...???

I'm confused as to why you get upset?
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Old 07-22-2008, 07:26 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alstom
I just get tired of hearing that I need a new camera. ... Stop bringing up about getting a new camera.
While, after a while, one does get familiar with regular forum participants, it is a waste of brain space to memorize everyone's details. So you if you see "new camera" mentioned, consider that it is simply a correct and helpful response to give to the individual post in question and that not everyone memorizes the particulars of your situation.

Quote:
I always get the same answers anyways.
So have you learned? Actually, I think you have, but you are irritable.

Quote:
I do think alot of location, lighting and composition, which you guys deliberately overlook.
WWHHHAAATTT???? Just because you are irritated, don't call us fools, and "deliberate" fools at that. Geesh.

Quote:
Until then, I WILL NOT cease submitting photos I think have a chance or a semi-good chance, so you will have to put up with it.
That is for the screeners to put up with! The question is will you continue to ask for advice when you, by your own statements, know what is coming at you? And, if you are hoping for the occasional new gem, will you be patient enough to work through the repeat material without getting irritated at those who are providing GOOD advice for FREE?

By all means, keep submitting, and keep asking for advice. Just take a much better attitude toward the latter.
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Old 07-22-2008, 07:33 PM   #17
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Yeah, I'm sorry. I just haven't been in the best of moods lately. I apologize. Thanks for the opinions. I will cut back on the threads though until I get the new camera. I tried reworking the second photo. You guys seem to think it has a semi-chance at getting in. I adjusted the lighting in levels, and sharpened. I also submitted a completely new shot from Attica, I'll see how they work out. Anyways, sorry for the bad 'tude, thanks for the advice. I do appreciate it, I am just not in the greatest of moods.
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Old 07-22-2008, 07:54 PM   #18
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Quote:
When I get the Canon, I expect to do better.
A better camera does not always make a better photographer.

Quote:
I do think alot of location, lighting and composition, which you guys deliberately overlook.
If we all overlooked that, there would be 0 pictures on this site.

Quote:
If RP would stop being hung-up over 100% perfect nose light, which I know you guys are too, I would have alot more acceptances
Do you even look at pictures on this site? There are plenty of well composed images that have no noselight at all. I can think of a few good ones recently that come to mind. But they are composed well, They take into account lighting, location, and composition. Oh wait i forgot, none of us do that.

Quote:
But fact of the matter is, if I am satisfied with my photos, I honestly don't care what RP thinks.
If you dont care what RP thinks, then why do you complain when you get rejected?

Quote:
Until then, I WILL NOT cease submitting photos I think have a chance or a semi-good chance, so you will have to put up with it.
Then be prepared to put up with our answers.
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Old 07-22-2008, 08:14 PM   #19
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But they are composed well, They take into account lighting, location, and composition. Oh wait i forgot, none of us do that.
I think he was saying that when we're giving him feedback, we don't take those things about his photos into consideration, not that we don't think about that when we're out shooting...
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Old 07-22-2008, 08:37 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alstom
And if it really bothers you so much, I won't continue making threads to ask for advice. I always get the same answers anyways. I am just kind of upset at the moment. When I get the Canon, I expect to do better. I do think alot of location, lighting and composition, which you guys deliberately overlook. I was with a "Forest City Division Railroad Enthusiast (RRE)" member this day, and since you guys don't know, the RRE is a group of elite film photographers of Northeast Ohio. They happen to think about location and such, so being with one of them, I went to locations with grain elevators and other backgrounds.

Oooo, which of the "elitists'' were you with? I've been to a meeting of theirs before.
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Old 07-22-2008, 08:44 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alstom
Yeah, I'm sorry. I just haven't been in the best of moods lately. I apologize. Thanks for the opinions. I will cut back on the threads though until I get the new camera. I tried reworking the second photo. You guys seem to think it has a semi-chance at getting in. I adjusted the lighting in levels, and sharpened. I also submitted a completely new shot from Attica, I'll see how they work out. Anyways, sorry for the bad 'tude, thanks for the advice. I do appreciate it, I am just not in the greatest of moods.
If your "mood" consistently influences the way you act on the forum toward people who are only trying to help you, then I don't believe you're mature enough to continue participating here. I realize that you're young, and it's becoming my opinion (moreso every day) that that's precisely the problem.

Your photos were consistently blurry, poorly lit, noisy, and of generally low quality the first time you were banned. You promised that would all change when you were allowed back.

It hasn't.

You are still uploading poorly lit photos with technical deficiencies that can only be blamed on one thing, your camera. There is no way that you could consistently muck up the settings on any decent camera to make your images come out this bad each and every time.. and as much as you don't want to hear it, I'm going to join the chorus and say that if you want to consistently have your shots accepted here, you need better equipment.

Lastly, for you to come marching into the forums with your 2% photo acceptance rate over the past year and start preaching about how we do this wrong, that wrong, treat you unfairly because you're young, and "abuse" rejection reasons is nothing short of completely offensive. Just because you don't agree with our policies, and don't have the ability to meet the criteria set in place doesn't mean that we are the ones doing something wrong.

Flatly, your attitude sucks, and your photography is never going to improve if you don't learn to listen, take advice, and stop blaming everyone else for your problems. Most of what you upload doesn't have a chance of being accepted, and if that trend continues and we start to view screening your shots as a waste of time (like we did last time), I won't hesitate for one second to either reduce your daily upload limit to 1, or ban you altogether again.
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Old 07-22-2008, 09:06 PM   #22
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Alright, Chris, I'm sorry. I agree, I need better equipment. I was just having two bad days. I realize I shouldn't have taken it out on you guys. I just got upset myself. I'm sorry. I know my photos aren't real good. I plan on getting a Canon Digital Rebel XTi sometime down the road. I don't know what you find screening as a "waste of time", so don't ban me if I innocently submit a photo, and you don't like it. Anyways, I apologize to all I jumped on earlier, again, I was just having an off day. Plus, to make matters worse, I think to myself that my photos are so terrible, and then to hear it too, just isn't the best soul-lifting remedy.

Paul - I was with Marty Surdyk. He is one of my best fellow photographer friends. The reason I threw "elite" into the same sentence as the RRE, is because I hear that they have the occasional 'beer outing', are VERY crude if they don't like your slide shows and such. I recall Marty telling me that you, Tom and Mark were there for Dave Mangold's slide show, and that most people left to go outside to escape his monotonous rambling. I would've joined them. He did the same rubbish at the Akron RR club, but to each his own I suppose.

Tom - I didn't mean to offend you. You seemed upset about what I wrote. I apologize. Though I DO have one complaint to you though. You left Cresson too quick, so I didn't know when the Amtrak was going to pass through Cassandra on July 12. Some guy with a Conrail truck, Conrail clothes and probably Conrail undies kept calling you to see when the Amtrak has passed your location, so we could set up. But you left!
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Old 07-22-2008, 09:59 PM   #23
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Richard;

My best advice is to think before you post here again. Your last post was apologetic and it seemed you understood our points. In five minutes, I fully expect you to blame the screeners and yell at those of us who have tried to help you again.

You're getting real boring and I feel absolutely no desire to give you any advice about your shots ever again. If you were my son, I'd send you to your room without any access to the internet, a computer, a camera, a TV or a radio until you managed to take some responsibility for things you should.


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Old 07-22-2008, 10:08 PM   #24
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Joe - I am not going to get mad again. Look, first of all, since none of you know, the reason I wasn't real happy, was because my Grandmother sent me no card or present on Birthday. I called her, and she told me to leave her alone because I hang around with too many men. This was the first call I gave her since March. She is very ignorant, and doesn't like my mom or me. Now, I am only sharing this problem with you because you don't know why I was upset. Family problems were my reason. There is more to this story, but I don't want to put it out in the public. And please note, that I am not trying to blame anyone on here for this problem, I am just sharing it with you so you have an idea as to why I was upset. I understand I shouldn't have taken it out here. I took it out on people on Youtube and the Rails of the World forum too. So you guys weren't the only to hear from me. I apologize.
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Old 07-22-2008, 10:19 PM   #25
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I am not trying to blame anyone on here for this problem
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Look, first of all, since none of you know, the reason I wasn't real happy, was because my Grandmother sent me no card or present on Birthday.
Looks to me like you're blaming your grandmother.

Richard, seriously, no one cares why you were mad; there's really no reason to try and justify it. And posting stuff like this last post doesn't help your case any...
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