Old 10-14-2014, 11:18 PM   #1
dnsommer2013
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Default Rule Of Thirds Confusion

Hello everyone,

These two photos were not accepted because of Rule of Thirds issues. Can someone please explain it to me? I guess I don't get it! Also, can they be saved and re-submitted, or should I just forget about them?

Are there any other glaring flaws?

Thanks so much!

David
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Old 10-14-2014, 11:28 PM   #2
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Hey, another foamer down in Ithaca.

The AMT shot could be a bit tighter. Cropping on all sides pretty much equally should get you into Acceptanceville.

The FL9 shot is a bit centered top to bottom. The train needs to go up or down in the frame (I'd make it go up). It also appears to be leaning to the right slightly.
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Old 10-14-2014, 11:39 PM   #3
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The dreaded Suggestion of Thirds again!

A quick look at today's new additions finds at least 14 shots with the locomotive pretty much vertically centered.

Consistent inconsistency, you can count on that here.
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Old 10-15-2014, 02:08 PM   #4
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The first AMT photo was shot at 24mm and I think part of the problem is that there is some wide-angle distortion. So I just submitted this photo. Same train, but further away. The lens was zoomed out to 88mm for this one. Maybe it is a little better? Now the small fence next to the lead car is probably going to disqualify this shot, I suppose.

Anyway, when I use the crop tool the image is divided into six sections, keeping with I guess The Rule of Thirds. So what is it that I need to do? Make sure some of the train is in every box?

Thanks.
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Old 10-15-2014, 03:47 PM   #5
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I like the second one better.

If your using Photoshop elements, you can configure the crop tool to show you rule of thirds.

The second one, I wonder if the cut off piece of equipment is killing it.
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Old 10-15-2014, 06:09 PM   #6
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Thanks,

I am using PS CS6 and LR5, but really I am only just learning how to use them.

The second photo also has been rejected. Reasons were: Awkward Composition. Rule of Thirds.

Maybe they explain it on Wikipedia!

Dave
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Old 10-15-2014, 08:28 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dnsommer2013 View Post
The first AMT photo was shot at 24mm and I think part of the problem is that there is some wide-angle distortion. So I just submitted this photo. Same train, but further away. The lens was zoomed out to 88mm for this one. Maybe it is a little better? Now the small fence next to the lead car is probably going to disqualify this shot, I suppose.
The above shot is 'awkward' and rejected, but these accepted shots are not awkward? I guess I don't understand this parallel universe!

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Old 10-16-2014, 02:09 AM   #8
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The first one was slightly crooked. The second one is okay, but the front of the locomotive is a bit too far right---and there's nothing on the left to balance the shot. The rule of thirds is important, but it's equally important to find compositional balance in one's photography.
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Old 10-16-2014, 03:21 AM   #9
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The rule of thirds is important, but it's equally important to find compositional balance in one's photography.
The second AMT shot looks pretty balanced to me. I've noticed others have had trouble getting cab car shots on. Maybe the authorities just don't like them?
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Old 10-17-2014, 03:31 AM   #10
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I think what you're asking is what's the application. If you're using the ROT grid with the PS crop tool, your subject should be more or less centered at the point where two of the lines intersect. With the AMT shot, that would roughly be between the headlights and above the coupler. Roughly. The FL9, the crosshairs would roughly the lower headlight. Roughly.

Ron's right, it's a compositional tool but it has to be adapted to the needs of the individual photo. The idea is create a visual imbalance that causes the viewer's eye to move through the scene and take it all in. Putting your subject at "dead center" means the eye isn't going to move. Or so I was taught 30+ years ago by my friend Petty Officer Gehri Weeks, Navy photojournalist.

The rule is a good starting point for photographers, but it isn't carved in stone. If you're talented – and I assume you are – you're going to start finding ways to break it in creative ways. Just for fun – and not for RP – try compositions where your subject is tightly packed into a corner or along one of the edges of the frame.
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Old 10-17-2014, 05:24 AM   #11
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That is one heck of a slippery "rule". As usual, today's accepted offerings include numerous centered and vertically centered shots.
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Old 10-17-2014, 12:30 PM   #12
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Thanks for your advice. The photo below was rejected today for the same reasons as the others - awkward composition and problems pertaining to the rule of thirds.

I like this photo. I think I should redo it with a slightly altered crop. Do you agree? Or is this picture flawed in other ways too?

Thanks Again!

Dave
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Old 10-17-2014, 04:08 PM   #13
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a) I'm very surprised they didn't reject it for having a dark nose. That is coming the second time around. That appears to me not to be fixable in this case.

b) in this forum it is typical to link to the rejection rather than to attach a shot and write out the rejection reasons
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Old 10-17-2014, 04:27 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRMDC View Post

b) in this forum it is typical to link to the rejection rather than to attach a shot and write out the rejection reasons
...which advice, if followed, renders the thread absolutely useless after 7 days because the photo has disappeared and no one knows what the discussion is about. And yes, I do occasionally look at threads that are over 7 days old.
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Old 10-17-2014, 04:34 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miningcamper1 View Post
...which advice, if followed, renders the thread absolutely useless after 7 days because the photo has disappeared and no one knows what the discussion is about. And yes, I do occasionally look at threads that are over 7 days old.
You may be the only one. I like having the rejection link posted for various reasons and seven days is about six too many for most posts in this place.




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Old 10-17-2014, 05:06 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by bigbassloyd View Post
You may be the only one. I like having the rejection link posted for various reasons and seven days is about six too many for most posts in this place.




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Old 10-17-2014, 06:15 PM   #17
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You may be the only one. I like having the rejection link posted for various reasons and seven days is about six too many for most posts in this place.
What he said. Plus, people make mistakes, they forget to mention something, attach the wrong version of the image, etc. If someone is asking about a rejection I want to see what the screener saw and read the screener's response.
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Old 10-17-2014, 10:04 PM   #18
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I want to see what the screener saw and read the screener's response.
LOL.
How many of the unlucky get more than the canned screener response?
On initial rejections it's 0% of the time for me.
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Old 10-17-2014, 11:35 PM   #19
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Mining, I didn't mean the written response; I've never seen one myself, as far as I recall. I gave the reason why I want to see the canned response through the link.,
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Old 10-17-2014, 11:58 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by miningcamper1 View Post
...which advice, if followed, renders the thread absolutely useless after 7 days because the photo has disappeared and no one knows what the discussion is about.
Soooooo....post the rejection link AND attach the image?
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Old 10-19-2014, 03:19 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobE View Post
I think what you're asking is what's the application. If you're using the ROT grid with the PS crop tool, your subject should be more or less centered at the point where two of the lines intersect. With the AMT shot, that would roughly be between the headlights and above the coupler. Roughly. The FL9, the crosshairs would roughly the lower headlight. Roughly.

Ron's right, it's a compositional tool but it has to be adapted to the needs of the individual photo. The idea is create a visual imbalance that causes the viewer's eye to move through the scene and take it all in. Putting your subject at "dead center" means the eye isn't going to move. Or so I was taught 30+ years ago by my friend Petty Officer Gehri Weeks, Navy photojournalist.

The rule is a good starting point for photographers, but it isn't carved in stone. If you're talented and I assume you are you're going to start finding ways to break it in creative ways. Just for fun and not for RP try compositions where your subject is tightly packed into a corner or along one of the edges of the frame.
Excellent points. It shouldn't be called the "rule" of thirds, since it's more like a "suggestion" of thirds. I center subjects in the frame all the time, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with it. Each composition is different---and folks should be creative in finding those compositions.

I will go back to my point that a scene should have some visual balance that makes it interesting. And---some scenes are just not appealing at all, no matter what you try---vertical, horizontal, center of interest on left, right...it just doesn't matter. No matter how skilled you are as a photographer, you might not be able to bring home a winner in every case.
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Old 10-19-2014, 04:56 AM   #22
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Soooooo....post the rejection link AND attach the image?
That would make too much sense, sir.
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Old 10-19-2014, 09:02 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobE View Post
I think what you're asking is what's the application. If you're using the ROT grid with the PS crop tool, your subject should be more or less centered at the point where two of the lines intersect. With the AMT shot, that would roughly be between the headlights and above the coupler. Roughly. The FL9, the crosshairs would roughly the lower headlight. Roughly.

Ron's right, it's a compositional tool but it has to be adapted to the needs of the individual photo. The idea is create a visual imbalance that causes the viewer's eye to move through the scene and take it all in. Putting your subject at "dead center" means the eye isn't going to move. Or so I was taught 30+ years ago by my friend Petty Officer Gehri Weeks, Navy photojournalist.

The rule is a good starting point for photographers, but it isn't carved in stone. If you're talented and I assume you are you're going to start finding ways to break it in creative ways. Just for fun and not for RP try compositions where your subject is tightly packed into a corner or along one of the edges of the frame.
Thanks Bob! I will begin using your instructions as a reference point. I'd kind of like to master "the basic train shot" before going off on tangents, as I can't even seem to get that right on a consistent basis!
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Old 10-19-2014, 09:05 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRMDC View Post
a) I'm very surprised they didn't reject it for having a dark nose. That is coming the second time around. That appears to me not to be fixable in this case.

b) in this forum it is typical to link to the rejection rather than to attach a shot and write out the rejection reasons
Thanks for the tip. I guess I spent some time looking for answers before posting and all the photos were gone, rendering the info close to useless. But I will make sure to participate the way most that's most widely accepted, and attach links to the rejected photos.

However what you see here are the exact same photos I submitted. I have no axe to grind by falsifying info. I am just trying to learn.

I think I can brighten the nose somewhat. Maybe.
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Old 10-19-2014, 09:08 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Ron Flanary View Post
Excellent points. It shouldn't be called the "rule" of thirds, since it's more like a "suggestion" of thirds. I center subjects in the frame all the time, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with it. Each composition is different---and folks should be creative in finding those compositions.

I will go back to my point that a scene should have some visual balance that makes it interesting. And---some scenes are just not appealing at all, no matter what you try---vertical, horizontal, center of interest on left, right...it just doesn't matter. No matter how skilled you are as a photographer, you might not be able to bring home a winner in every case.
Thanks. This is good advice. It can be hard to give up on a photo. I seldom bring home winners, to be sure. In fact I had a long spell of rejections that lasted a few years. Then I got a few accepted and I became re-inspired. But I guess these just won't cut it, despite the time and effort spent in capturing them! I guess I'm gonna have to do more than stand beside a sunny, unobstructed stretch of unremarkable track!

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