Old 04-22-2015, 11:05 PM   #1
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Default Deja' vu

Seeing double-double, double vision.

Image © Mike Danneman
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Image © Michael F. Allen
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Photograph © Michael F. Allen
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Old 04-23-2015, 02:44 AM   #2
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Oh, I thought this was going to be about...




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Old 04-23-2015, 03:04 AM   #3
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Sorry Jim. Maybe I should have titled the thread "Groundhog Day".
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Old 04-23-2015, 03:26 AM   #4
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Which is why there's no need for me to post any South Branch Charter photos.

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Old 04-23-2015, 04:15 AM   #5
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I only waited eight and a half years after Michael Allen uploaded his photo to RP, to post my photo of UP 618 at Charleston.

Your memory is too good, Carl!

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Old 04-23-2015, 07:17 AM   #6
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Lol - those two photos have less in common to me then several diesel photos I've seen posted on the same day.

I'm glad RP's memory is shorter then most of it's patrons as I can not only appreciate the fine nuances between the two images, but also tend to judge a photo on it's own merit rather then who had posted first.

I also think it's great to be able to view a photographer's work as a whole on RP.

Great shots both - it will be interesting to see how timing alone can affect the perceived appeal of an image. Granted there is something to be said for an original shot but these were created at the same time. Still, not all shots from Morant's Curve are equal in appeal despite who presented theirs first. Exposure, processing, weather, subject, angles and perspective - all variables that can elevate the appeal of one over the other depending on who's viewing the image.

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Old 04-23-2015, 11:56 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mgoldman View Post
I'm glad RP's memory is shorter then most of it's patrons as I can not only appreciate the fine nuances between the two images, but also tend to judge a photo on it's own merit rather then who had posted first.
Agreed. Way back than, things were a bit different with RP, including a lot of different patrons. I hadn't seen Michael's back than, joining a few months after it was added to the database.

One question about Michael's, since Mike's doesn't include EXIF data (scan from film), did the two guys in the scene really hold still for 41 seconds? First thing I thought was that the flash caught them in that position, but than I don't see any ghosting from them moving about.

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EXIF Sub IFD
Exposure Time (1 / Shutter Speed) = 411/10 second ===> 41.1 second
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Old 04-23-2015, 12:54 PM   #8
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I didn't look at the exif for time but did notice the star trails , at least not sharp, which would start after around 10 seconds. Not an expert on this but isn't this where the main scene is dark, everyone opens their shutters, then they hit the flash so the scene is only illuminated for the flash time, then close the shutter so there would be no movement. The main difference I see is in the steam, where you can see some stray lighting filtered in which was handled in one but not the other??

There are probably another dozen to 20 versions out in a box or a drive somewhere.??
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Old 04-23-2015, 01:38 PM   #9
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Not an expert on this but isn't this where the main scene is dark, everyone opens their shutters, then they hit the flash so the scene is only illuminated for the flash time, then close the shutter so there would be no movement.

That's known as "open flash" technique, and was popular before the invention of flash sync in the 1930s. Jim Shaugnessy was still using it in the early 1960s when he had local trains stop on bridges etc. while he popped his flash bulbs. It's effective, especially if your subject isn't moving. (Otherwise lights from the train will streak.)

I've not done any of these kinds of shoots mainly because (1) None within a day's drive of me (2) I like the excitement of catching "wild" trains on the hoof. However, I hope to do it some day. I know it supports these rail museum operations and that's a good thing. When I do it, I will leave the D800E at home and use a camera/lenses correct to the period, and b&w film. I've often wondered why people go to all the trouble of creating these vintage scenes, but end up with a photo that so obviously used modern equipment.


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Old 04-23-2015, 02:54 PM   #10
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Chase Gunnoe set up "open flash" shots for the night photo shoot on the Potomac Eagle this past weekend. It worked pretty well with a large group and avoided the need to haul around generators and multiple large light fixtures.

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Old 04-23-2015, 04:17 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moffat Road View Post
I only waited eight and a half years after Michael Allen uploaded his photo to RP, to post my photo of UP 618 at Charleston.

Your memory is too good, Carl!

Mike
Geez Mike. Are you running out of material to post that you could only wait that long???

I only remembered that shot because I really like it. My memory isn't that good but I appreciate the compliment.
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Old 04-23-2015, 05:28 PM   #12
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Mike's shot is better! We were bunched up pretty tight and I was kneeling in the front row, so the truck hides the Union Pacific lettering on the tender in my shot. Mike must have been in the row behind with full height tripods. Also, there is 8 years of improvement in Photo Shop since I posted mine as well. I find that a lot of my older shots could be improved with a newer version of Photo Shop.

Too bad the Heber Valley has been without steam for a number of years now. Those winter photo sessions were great fun.

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Old 04-24-2015, 07:34 PM   #13
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Amen to things on RP being different 8 years ago.
Look at the effusive views and comments that were left back then.
At the time, being on the internet outside of "chat rooms" (remember those?) and being in color on RP was, new, fresh, exciting.
We are much more blase now.
I think the comments will be more tame this time around.
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Old 04-25-2015, 02:10 AM   #14
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Smile Open flash

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noct Foamer View Post
That's known as "open flash" technique, and was popular before the invention of flash sync in the 1930s. Jim Shaugnessy was still using it in the early 1960s when he had local trains stop on bridges etc. while he popped his flash bulbs. It's effective, especially if your subject isn't moving. (Otherwise lights from the train will streak.)

Kent in SD
Kinda makes me feel old. I used the "open flash" approach for most of my night photography in the 60's, it provided a greater tonal scale and some neat effects with the smoke and steam drifting about. This is one of my favorites:

Image © John West
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Old 04-25-2015, 02:49 AM   #15
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Open flash technique is also very helpful whenever lighting up a large scene...such as a crime scene. I used to teach photography to police officers and we trained them in the open flash technique whenever covering a large area such as an accident scene or large crime scene.
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Old 04-25-2015, 03:02 AM   #16
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Quote:
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Kinda makes me feel old. I used the "open flash" approach for most of my night photography in the 60's, it provided a greater tonal scale and some neat effects with the smoke and steam drifting about. This is one of my favorites:

Image © John West
PhotoID: 147166
Photograph © John West
Excellent shot! Looks more like available light than flash.
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Old 04-25-2015, 03:16 AM   #17
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Smile Multiple flashes

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Excellent shot! Looks more like available light than flash.
One of the nice things about open flash, using slow panatomic film and small apertures you had shutter speeds of around a minute, so you could walk around and pop multiple flashes wherever you thought the scene needed a bit more light. Thus it did tend to look more like available lighting because of multiple sources.
But of course you had to do a lot of bracketing because you didn't know what you had until the film was developed. Each image was quite an adventure. One more from that cold evening in Chama:

Image © John West
PhotoID: 147162
Photograph © John West


Michael Allen mentioned improvements in Photoshop. I might also add that these old negatives look a lot better after being scanned and processed digitally than anything I could accomplish in a dark room.
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