Old 09-21-2010, 04:54 PM   #26
cblaz
Senior Member
 
cblaz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Marlboro, New Jersey
Posts: 1,007
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Kilroy View Post
I don't understand how what was clearly a spur-of-the-moment grab shot of a trespasser with terrible image quality, overwhelming heat haze, and no clear focal point is considered "artistic."
Note to Mirriam-Webster, I guess "artistic" is now synonymous with "view-whoring" since that's the only purpose of getting this shot accepted to RP, to inflate one's view counts. The only thing the shot has going for it is shock value and would appeal to those RP viewers who love carnage so much they click on every derailment shot or tele-mashed "vehicle crossing in front of a stopped train with ditchlights on" shot.

- Chris
/Can't believe how many photographers I respect say they like this shot. If it didn't have Mitch's name attached, and was taken by a teenager, you'd rip him apart for thinking this could get accepted.
__________________
- Christopher Blaszczyk
My shots on RP: http://www.railpictures.net/showphotos.php?userid=284
cblaz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2010, 05:27 PM   #27
trainboysd40
Senior Member
 
trainboysd40's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Calgary, Alberta on the CP Laggan Subdivision
Posts: 2,048
Send a message via MSN to trainboysd40
Default

I never liked heat distortion, I feel there are very few times in railroad photography it can be used - and this isn't one of them. Heat distortion is a messy thing to have in a photo, and it should have a compelling place in the photo. Your photo is too journalistic to have this kind of distortion, no matter who says it's 'art'. Art is whatever you want it to be, but it can still be crap.
Maybe if it had a dog running behind the boy...
__________________
got a D5 IIi and now he doesnt afread fo 12800 iSO
Youtube (Model Railway, Vlogs, Tutorials, and prototype)
My Website
Obligatory link to shots on RP, HERE
trainboysd40 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2010, 05:32 PM   #28
crazytiger
Senior Member
 
crazytiger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: NS Greenville District
Posts: 1,473
Default

I was thinking, "What the crap? Mitch actually submitted that?!?"
__________________
Be governed accordingly,

PFL
crazytiger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2010, 05:36 PM   #29
Mgoldman
Senior Member
 
Mgoldman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,648
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cblaz View Post
Note to Mirriam-Webster, I guess "artistic" is now synonymous with "view-whoring" since that's the only purpose of getting this shot accepted to RP, to inflate one's view counts.
- Chris
I could care less about view counts, Chris. If I desired to "boost my view count" I'd have posted the image below.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cblaz View Post
/Can't believe how many photographers I respect say they like this shot. If it didn't have Mitch's name attached, and was taken by a teenager, you'd rip him apart for thinking this could get accepted.
Funny - I was just telling Nick how well responded this thread had started... comments ranged from favorable to critiques that criticized in a constructive method. As for my name - that did not factor in with my WMSR pace nor the Dog on a Train photo so I believe you are in error regarding that statement.

Joe - the photo simply caught my attention and though it was not of the same style I typically shoot, I found some appeal to the shot. Think of it akin to a lead singer of a band doing some solo work - completely different yet the essence remains. Not always successful, but sometimes you get a hit or two. Again, it reminded me of a shark rising from the deep ready to strike in a capture reminiscent of artwork by Monet. See above photo formula.

/Mitch
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	NS Wreck TO.jpg
Views:	154
Size:	239.2 KB
ID:	5789  
Mgoldman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2010, 05:45 PM   #30
crazytiger
Senior Member
 
crazytiger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: NS Greenville District
Posts: 1,473
Default

Please, Mitch, POST IT! I love to see Dash-9 carnage. It just feels so good.
__________________
Be governed accordingly,

PFL
crazytiger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2010, 05:58 PM   #31
MDH
Senior Member
 
MDH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 287
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by crazytiger View Post
Please, Mitch, POST IT! I love to see Dash-9 carnage. It just feels so good.
Uhhh... please don't. Several better lit versions already reside in the database including this one:

Image © WixPix
PhotoID: 195249
Photograph © WixPix


As to the "running man" shot I was holding off commenting because I have mixed feelings about it - the severe distortion does give it an interesting "watercolor" feel, but overall it still just looks like a trespasser grab shot with horrible image quality to me. I kinda winced when I first saw it over on TO because it was hard to even look at because it was so blurry.

I've found that photographic "art" (like all other kinds) is very much in the eye of the beholder and whenever I depart from "Sunny wedgie land" I get a good bit more hit & miss on acceptances. Overall I think it's a good thing to occasionally push the boundaries some - especially when it's good photographers like Mitch doing it. Not everything will work though and for me this one doesn't.

Regards,
Michael
__________________
Michael Harding
P&WV fan in HO

Click Here to view my photos at RailPictures.Net!

Click Here to view my Toledo Railfan Photo Location map!
MDH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2010, 07:17 PM   #32
John West
Senior Curmudgeon
 
John West's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Mill Valley, CA
Posts: 1,081
Cool

Interesting thread. A few thoughts come to mind as I put this to bed. One, I hope Mitch didn't seriously think this was RP material, my guess he was just throwing a grenade for fun. Two, a number of folks have suggested it needed a focus or focal point or some such. My wife is a bit of a Monet fan, so I checked out some of the Monet prints hanging around the house. It is tough to say that most of them have a focal point that is any more obvious or graphically stronger than the trespasser and perhaps the engine in Mitch's image. Even though the medium was digital photography, the image is really a painting, and while perhaps the rules don't change our expectations may change. We expect a focus point in a photograph, it may be less important in an impressionist painting. Finally, Mitch's shot was criticisized as being a "grab shot". Heck, I think many of the best images are "grab shots". Hopefully now we can get back to our regularly scheduled programming.
__________________
John West
See my pix here and
here and here
John West is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2010, 07:41 PM   #33
Diamond D
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 191
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cblaz View Post
If it didn't have Mitch's name attached, and was taken by a teenager, you'd rip him apart for thinking this could get accepted.
Probably some truth in that.

Quote:
Finally, Mitch's shot was criticisized as being a "grab shot". Heck, I think many of the best images are "grab shots". Hopefully now we can get back to
our regularly scheduled programming.
I think this is pretty good programming, a good topic and some thoughtful replies!

I'm sure pan shots were blasted at first for all that "blurred shit" in the image, and night streaks for similar reasons. I'm not predicting that severe heat distortion is the next big trend in rr photography, but I'm also not going to discount a shot just because it's pretty weird.

I too get tired of everything that's desaturated and crooked on Flickr, or every shot that gets rejected here being labeled "art" (it must be art, because no one else understands the true artist in their day ). All I can say is, as a picture, this one holds my attention longer than many on the site do. There's a story, motion, and tension. The fact that it's nowhere near the criteria of this site is irrelevant to the impact in that regard. If it were on any other photography website or forum, I'd click and react to the image, not automatically apply RP screening criteria to it. The time he took planning, or not planning this shot is also irrelevant. Photographers take photographs - some are smashing successes, some are utter failures, and most fall somewhere in between. Obviously this one struck something with Mitch, and he asked for input, isn't that what photography forums are about?

Last edited by Diamond D; 09-21-2010 at 07:46 PM.
Diamond D is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2010, 09:00 PM   #34
Mgoldman
Senior Member
 
Mgoldman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,648
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by J. E. Landrum View Post
There is no "art" to it, unless you are Dada.
"And just as mainstream artists were giving it serious consideration, in the early 1920s, Dada (true to form) dissolved itself."

Those that fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it, LOL.

"In an interesting twist, this art of protest - based on a serious underlying principle - is delightful."

Thanks J.E. : )

"Dada art is nonsensical to the point of whimsy. Almost all of the people who created it were ferociously serious, though."

Dog gone it, I still think my Dog-on-a-Train shot should've been accepted.


John - I did seriously think this had a place on RP. As Nick mentioned, blurred trains and light streaks (along with one specific crap shot ) are featured on RP so why not this variation of a theme which was in fact an untouched, unedited, as-seen-with-my-own-eyes image. The heat distortion is not the problem, it's the subject in the same way that a purposely blurred train or background makes those images work so well. RP states no manipulated images are accepted and these, they are not.

/Mitch

Check out my growing Dada portfolio below.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	NSG Unlevel H RP.jpg
Views:	138
Size:	127.6 KB
ID:	5792  
Mgoldman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2010, 09:05 PM   #35
Freericks
Met Fan
 
Freericks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 4,041
Default

Truth is if your NEC trespasser image is art (I hold no opinion one way or the other), I think you're correct that it is more of an Impressionism meets 1970s Hollywood Blockbuster hybrid.

Your dog on the train, however, is definitely Dadaism.

Looking forward to your Blue period, followed by your Deconstructionist stage.
Freericks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2010, 09:08 PM   #36
Mgoldman
Senior Member
 
Mgoldman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,648
Default

Can we skip past and go right to Futurism?

/Mitch
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	RP BNSFmars.jpg
Views:	136
Size:	186.1 KB
ID:	5793  

Last edited by Mgoldman; 09-21-2010 at 09:22 PM.
Mgoldman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2010, 09:16 PM   #37
Freericks
Met Fan
 
Freericks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 4,041
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mgoldman View Post
Can we skip past and go right to Futurism?

/Mitch
Hmmm... I think that no matter what we do, we are heading into the future... so sure, go ahead and celebrate it.
Freericks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2010, 02:08 AM   #38
JRMDC
Senior Member
 
JRMDC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 11,202
Default

Well, I went over the top with this and wrote a lengthy blog post on it.

http://railpixcritic.blogspot.com/
__________________
My RP pix are here.
My Flickr pix are here.

My commentaries on rail pictures are in my blog.

RP Photo Albums:
Cabooses
Engine Details
Farm and Train
Plumes!
Railroad Details
Signal Details
Switchstand Shots
JRMDC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2010, 02:09 AM   #39
J. E. Landrum
RailPictures.Net Crew
 
J. E. Landrum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Posts: 136
Default

You still have the best dog shot on RP (Strasburg in the snow with the howler). Kinda tough to top that one with another dog shot.


"In an interesting twist, this art of protest - based on a serious underlying principle - is delightful."

Thanks J.E. : )
J. E. Landrum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2010, 02:12 AM   #40
Freericks
Met Fan
 
Freericks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 4,041
Default

But, he doesn't have a monkey smoking a cig shot yet... life is still incomplete.
Freericks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2010, 02:27 AM   #41
JRMDC
Senior Member
 
JRMDC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 11,202
Default

Hey, I too lived on the creative edge at one time! Back in 2004. Of course, I did not submit this to RP ...

Actually, I do think this is cool, in large part because I really like the hue of the green foliage. I like the colors.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	CSX.BrunswickMD041804K579.soft2.jpg
Views:	119
Size:	57.8 KB
ID:	5795  
__________________
My RP pix are here.
My Flickr pix are here.

My commentaries on rail pictures are in my blog.

RP Photo Albums:
Cabooses
Engine Details
Farm and Train
Plumes!
Railroad Details
Signal Details
Switchstand Shots
JRMDC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2010, 02:48 AM   #42
bigbassloyd
Senior Member
 
bigbassloyd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Hilldale, West Virginia
Posts: 3,826
Default

Mitch, your photo looks alot better, alot smaller

Submit the version on J's blog

Loyd L.
__________________
Those who seek glory, must also seek infamy.

My personal photography site
bigbassloyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2010, 03:20 AM   #43
Dennis A. Livesey
Senior Member
 
Dennis A. Livesey's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,986
Default

There have been some very well thought out statements here and I applaud that.

There have been some very unthoughtful statements here also. While that saddens me, I am not surprised since it was to be expected.

I knew that RP considered it's core audience to be very conservative. I just didn't know the admins were the core audience.

Photography was regarded as trash in the 1800's as far as being art was concerned. Picasso, Monet and Pollack were also trash when they first appeared. Plenty of stuff in the Museum of Modern Art today I think is junk myself.

This image on another more art centered photography site would probably would be well accepted. You ought to try it Mitch and report back.

I guarantee that on "Arty-Farty Rail Photography.Net" Mitch's shot would be TOTW. Troy's NS Roanoke Signal shot would be the runner-up.

(BTW, for the record and not that it matters, I like heat distortion.)
__________________
Dennis

I Foam Therefore I Am.

My pix on RailPics:

I am on Flickr as well:

"Dennis is such a God, he could do that with a camera obscura and some homemade acetate." Holloran Grade

"To me it looks drawn in in Paintshop. It looks like a puddle of orange on the sky." SFO777
Dennis A. Livesey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2010, 03:26 AM   #44
bigbassloyd
Senior Member
 
bigbassloyd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Hilldale, West Virginia
Posts: 3,826
Default

Ah, the beauty of art and photography... It's 100% subjective. One man's trash is another man's treasure. And as it's proven weekly on obscar, a debate without a foreseeable resolution.

Loyd L.
__________________
Those who seek glory, must also seek infamy.

My personal photography site
bigbassloyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2010, 04:13 AM   #45
Mgoldman
Senior Member
 
Mgoldman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,648
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Freericks View Post
But, he doesn't have a monkey smoking a cig shot yet... life is still incomplete.
Fear not, Charles - while I may not have a monkey smoking a cig shot, I knew one day, just one day, I'd have a use for this particular image:



/Mitch
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Cray Smoker RF.jpg
Views:	118
Size:	253.4 KB
ID:	5797  
Mgoldman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2010, 04:15 AM   #46
John West
Senior Curmudgeon
 
John West's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Mill Valley, CA
Posts: 1,081
Default

This thread is being to remind of Obscar.
__________________
John West
See my pix here and
here and here
John West is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2010, 04:18 AM   #47
J. E. Landrum
RailPictures.Net Crew
 
J. E. Landrum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Posts: 136
Default

That's not a monkey, that's me!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Freericks View Post
But, he doesn't have a monkey smoking a cig shot yet... life is still incomplete.
J. E. Landrum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2010, 04:19 AM   #48
J. E. Landrum
RailPictures.Net Crew
 
J. E. Landrum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Posts: 136
Default

What about SnobsCar?

Quote:
Originally Posted by John West View Post
This thread is being to remind of Obscar.
J. E. Landrum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2010, 04:20 AM   #49
Chase55671
RailPictures.Net Crew
 
Chase55671's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Nitro, WV
Posts: 2,194
Send a message via AIM to Chase55671 Send a message via MSN to Chase55671
Default

Obscar.. Interesting place!

Mitch, I like your work, you have some real good stuff, but just not quite sure why you submitted this. Sort of puzzles me you think it stands a chance.

Chase
__________________
Chase Gunnoe
Railpictures.Net Crew
Rail-Videos.Net Crew
Click here to view my photos at Railpictures.Net
SLR Night Photography Tutorial | Railpictures.Net Beginners Guide
Chase55671 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2010, 04:22 AM   #50
Mgoldman
Senior Member
 
Mgoldman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,648
Default

Speaking of Obscar - what is your favorite train movie? And what do you pack for lunch when you railfan Norfolk Southern?

Disclaimer (There are several valid topics on Obscar - though most now seem to be about RP).

/Mitch
Mgoldman is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 09:09 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.