Old 06-17-2008, 01:56 PM   #1
IC 6071
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Default A Few of Rejects

Hey all! Here are a few of rejects I need help with:

This was rejected for horizon unlevel. I tried to level it to the rail joint, any suggestions?

http://www.railpictures.net/viewreje...key=1273368549

Bad Cropping:

http://www.railpictures.net/viewreje...key=1116093699

Bad Cropping:

http://www.railpictures.net/viewreje...&key=281043020

Thanks for any help!
-Adam
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Old 06-17-2008, 02:02 PM   #2
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Shot 1 needs rotating CCW. It looks like the train is going down a grade. It didn't get knocked for bad cropping, but I'd take off some of the dead space to the right.

Shot 2 places the front of the NS unit directly in the middle of the shot which is against the Rule of Thirds. Note that it also got kicked for being blurry, so it might need sharpening. (On this monitor, everything looks kinda blurry to me, so I can't help there.)

Shot 3 may be a hard one to get technically correct without losing one of the elements you wanted in the shot, eitehr the rail in the foreground. But I would start with cutting out some of the dead space to the right of the D sign and also some of the sky.


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Old 06-17-2008, 02:35 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe the Photog
Shot 2 places the front of the NS unit directly in the middle of the shot which is against the Rule of Thirds.
It's a CN unit, and its nose is somewhat to the left of the middle.

I'd try cropping some off the left to get it further left - get rid of what looks to be a white tank car in the shadows. I'd also look at trimming just a bit of the right, and definitely off the top - too much empty black sky for my tastes.
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Old 06-17-2008, 02:46 PM   #4
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Thanks for the help guys! I tried leveling the first one to make the train look more like it was straight across, but it was still canned for horizon unlevel. This is the version that I submitted a week or so ago:

http://www.railpictures.net/viewreje...&key=251568002

I guess it is kind of a tricky one?? I also tried leveling it to one of the handrails on the engine, but then it looked like it was climbing a mountain.
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Old 06-17-2008, 03:00 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IC 6071
Thanks for the help guys! I tried leveling the first one to make the train look more like it was straight across, but it was still canned for horizon unlevel. This is the version that I submitted a week or so ago:

http://www.railpictures.net/viewreje...&key=251568002

I guess it is kind of a tricky one?? I also tried leveling it to one of the handrails on the engine, but then it looked like it was climbing a mountain.
The original looks good. I look for a vertical element near the center - in this case the leading edge of the cab - and it looks good to me. Although I am not able to put a grid on it. I'd check that one out with a grid, then resubmit it, with an explanation that you chose the leading edge and made it vertical. Always good to tell the screeners what you are doing.

I'd also trim a bit from the top and maybe a smaller bit from the left, but that may be a matter of taste.
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Old 06-17-2008, 04:16 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRMDC
It's a CN unit, and its nose is somewhat to the left of the middle.
My fingers were typing faster than my brain on that one! The cropping and framing is still suspect to me on this one. Not sure why the unit facing us is placed where it is in the frame.


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Old 06-17-2008, 09:51 PM   #7
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The plow is very dark on the UP shot. There's very little detail there. I'm not sure if that was possibly overlooked on the original rejection, but I'm not sure if it will make it like that.

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Old 06-18-2008, 01:21 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRMDC
The original looks good. I look for a vertical element near the center - in this case the leading edge of the cab - and it looks good to me. Although I am not able to put a grid on it. I'd check that one out with a grid, then resubmit it, with an explanation that you chose the leading edge and made it vertical. Always good to tell the screeners what you are doing.

I'd also trim a bit from the top and maybe a smaller bit from the left, but that may be a matter of taste.
I checked out the exif data for his pic and it lists the focal length at 7.9mm. This shot is definitely suffering from some kind of wide angle distortion, which will make it very tough to level. I gave it a go first using the foreground rails as a horizontal guide, and then using the horizontal on the side of the engine as a guide. Levelling either one of those still resulted in the picture looking a little unlevel, as both horizontal lines conflict with each other. Somewhere in between is a happy medium.

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Old 06-18-2008, 02:10 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimThias
I checked out the exif data for his pic and it lists the focal length at 7.9mm. This shot is definitely suffering from some kind of wide angle distortion, which will make it very tough to level.
7.9mm is a common focal length on digicams, 37mm equivalent (at least on the Pentax Optio I just ran across). So there is not much wide angle to it - as can be seen in the shot.

What is going on is that the camera is roughly at the level of the truck frame, which will make horizontal lines above (loco frame) skew one way and lines below (the rail of the main line) skew another. In addition, the foreground rail appears to belong to a siding and has its own version of horizontal, in part because I think it is sloping down to the left relative to the main and in part because, since it is not parallel to the main but is angled toward the photographer a bit (as one moves left) it will have its own version of horizontal. All due to geometry and perspective, being relatively up close, despite the not so wide angle.

At any rate there are bunches and bunches of roughly horizontal lines whose angles vary ever so slightly, so you may have to iterate a bunch of times before it gets in. I vaguely recall doing about 5 submissions of the shot below before it was accepted. Frustrating.

Image © Janusz Mrozek
PhotoID: 167884
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Old 06-19-2008, 01:50 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRMDC
7.9mm is a common focal length on digicams, 37mm equivalent (at least on the Pentax Optio I just ran across). So there is not much wide angle to it - as can be seen in the shot.
Thanks, I wasn't aware of that. However, 37mm will still give you wide angle distortion if you're not holding the camera level enough (and high enough) in relation to the subject.
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Old 06-19-2008, 02:17 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimThias
Thanks, I wasn't aware of that. However, 37mm will still give you wide angle distortion if you're not holding the camera level enough (and high enough) in relation to the subject.
Jim,

My camera starts at 36 mm and I rarely see wide-angle distortion that causes problems during uploading. I'm not sure how exactly all P&S's measure the focal length, but for Canon, they seem to start by taking the square root of the widest angle and then multiplying it by the amount of the zoom. For example, mine is 36-360 equivilent, so it registers as 6.0-60. Some other P&S's don't seem to use anything similar to this, so I don't understand them all...

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Old 06-19-2008, 02:41 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Becker
I'm not sure how exactly all P&S's measure the focal length, but for Canon, they seem to start by taking the square root of the widest angle and then multiplying it by the amount of the zoom. For example, mine is 36-360 equivilent, so it registers as 6.0-60. Some other P&S's don't seem to use anything similar to this, so I don't understand them all...

~Carl Becker
The relationship between the actual focal length of a digicam lens (or lens of any other non-full frame camera) and the equivalent 35mm focal length is determined by the size of the sensor relative to the 24x36mm size of a full frame (35mm) "sensor". The actual focal length is a matter of optics; it is not calculated but rather engineered. It just is.

There is a math formula, don't know it but have seen it, it is out there on the web in dozens or hundreds of places.

Actually, I think this is more properly stated as any lens has its focal length; what it looks like on the print depends on what size sensor you place behind it. Thus, a 50mm f/1.8 canon lens is a 50mm lens, always. If you mount it on a full frame body you get a "normal" view, whereas if you mount the same lens on a crop-sensor body, like my 20d, you get a moderate telephoto (80mm equivalent).

Yup, love the technical details!
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Old 06-19-2008, 02:48 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimThias
Thanks, I wasn't aware of that. However, 37mm will still give you wide angle distortion if you're not holding the camera level enough (and high enough) in relation to the subject.
That sort of perspective distortion isn't going to affect horizontal lines much, if at all.
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Old 06-19-2008, 04:19 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Becker
Jim,

My camera starts at 36 mm and I rarely see wide-angle distortion that causes problems during uploading. I'm not sure how exactly all P&S's measure the focal length, but for Canon, they seem to start by taking the square root of the widest angle and then multiplying it by the amount of the zoom. For example, mine is 36-360 equivilent, so it registers as 6.0-60. Some other P&S's don't seem to use anything similar to this, so I don't understand them all...

~Carl Becker
Carl, I'm using a full frame camera and at 40mm on my 17-40, wide angle distortion is still quite evident. Just this past weekend I took a shot of downtown Chicago with my 100-400 lens at 100mm, and I still had to do some distortion correction (I was quite surprised, actually).
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Old 06-19-2008, 05:01 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimThias
Carl, I'm using a full frame camera and at 40mm on my 17-40, wide angle distortion is still quite evident. Just this past weekend I took a shot of downtown Chicago with my 100-400 lens at 100mm, and I still had to do some distortion correction (I was quite surprised, actually).
Distortion on a telephoto lens isn't unusual. Actually, every lens has at least some distortion. The most distortion free focal length is of course 50mm, but even that has some, but it's a tiny amount. The wider focal lengths are known to have distortion because it's an unavoidable results from wide angles, but the amount of distortion varies wildly with telephoto lenses. It all depends on what the manufacturer decides to go after with the lens (sharpness, bokeh, etc.). Compromises must be made when designing a lens, that's why no single lens is the best at everything.
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