Old 02-23-2014, 03:48 AM   #26
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Sure, this is incredibly sad. But, it certainly sounds like they were on the bridge without CSX's knowledge or permission. Had they engaged CSX (which would have cost some money, I might add), the employee in charge would have gotten track time for whatever track they might be using. He would have also been in contact with the dispatcher to know what was coming and when.

I worked for Southern Railway a long, long time ago, and I spent a week "flagging" for a construction crew building a pipeline near Huntingburg, Indiana (in June 1970 actually). As Southern's guy on the scene, I had to make sure a construction worker or piece of equipment didn't get clobbered by a freight. The line was timetable/train order territory, so I had to keep my head in the phone box to stay in touch with the dispatcher and operators at Huntingburg and Oakland City. Again---the pipeline company had to pay for my services (to Southern---it was just a day on the job for me). When I knew a train was close, I made sure they were away from the track. After the train passed, I allowed them to go back to work. Of course in CTC territory, you would get track time. And without it, no one would be allowed on or near the track.

Again, it's terribly sad---but an example of how naive everyday people are about the railroad industry, and the likelihood a train will flatten your ass at any time if you're in the way!
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Old 02-24-2014, 01:36 AM   #27
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Follow up: An AP story says the crew was not given permission by CSX to be on the track, or the right of way. That's just as I thought. This would not have happened had they worked with CSX to gain track time and protection.

So very sad...and an unnecessary death due to someone else's negligence and/or incompetence with the film company.
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Old 02-24-2014, 02:27 AM   #28
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Plenty of abandoned or out of service lines with bridges still extant they could have used...
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Old 02-24-2014, 05:23 AM   #29
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Sounds to me like they just didn't understand railroading.
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Old 02-24-2014, 02:23 PM   #30
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Plenty of abandoned or out of service lines with bridges still extant they could have used...
That's what I was thinking, actually. I can think of one near me with the rails intact and I know there are many others.
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Sounds to me like they just didn't understand railroading.
Or common sense.
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Old 02-24-2014, 04:54 PM   #31
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Or common sense.
Yeah, true. What I meant to say is that most people don't understand trains. They don't get that you should always expect one and that they can't stop on a dime.
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Old 02-24-2014, 08:35 PM   #32
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Most railfan don't understand railroading either
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Old 02-24-2014, 09:05 PM   #33
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I don't see how these movie folks can't understand you don't set up a movie set on active train tracks. That doesn't take common sense. Sh*t for brains should be able to figure this part out.
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Old 02-24-2014, 09:12 PM   #34
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I don't see how these movie folks can't understand you don't set up a movie set on active train tracks. That doesn't take common sense. Sh*t for brains should be able to figure this part out.
Yeah, that's just plain and simple stupidity.
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Old 02-24-2014, 11:00 PM   #35
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Most railfan don't understand railroading either
But you don't have to understand railroading to stay alive. When a train comes, just move 5-10 feet to either side of the tracks and you live.

Unless you find yourself in a situation like Leslie Nielsen in "Wrongfully Accused," there's no reason why you should ever worry about being hit by a train when you can hear and/or see it coming.
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Old 02-25-2014, 03:36 AM   #36
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Most railfan don't understand railroading either
VERY true!!!

You're dealing with a general public that doesn't understand why a train "hit" some innocent people in a car who drove past the crossing gates and got killed. They can't understand why the "train driver" didn't put on the brakes to stop in time. Of course they demonize the poor old crew, and the railroad, and lament the lost lives of those who were so cruelly taken by the demon train.

The general public not only doesn't understand railroading, it gets an "F" in high school-level physics.
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Old 02-25-2014, 03:43 AM   #37
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Trains in motion, stay in motion, until they dump after the thump.

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Old 02-25-2014, 05:34 AM   #38
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Trains in motion, stay in motion, until they dump after the thump.

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Old 02-25-2014, 12:25 PM   #39
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I don't see how these movie folks can't understand you don't set up a movie set on active train tracks. That doesn't take common sense. Sh*t for brains should be able to figure this part out.
There are movie producers and directors who have the mentality that if they can "steal" a shot and get away with it, it's OK.

I have been there. Fortunately, it did not come up much and the idea was usually quashed.

I see this accident as an example of that mentality.

Of course someone from that production is now defending it's actions saying this was not a low budget production and "no corners were cut."
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Old 02-25-2014, 01:11 PM   #40
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The general public not only doesn't understand railroading, it gets an "F" in high school-level physics.
So true. I've had some of these folks actually tell me (with a straight face) that in the event of a car accident, they'd prefer to be "thrown clear" of their vehicle. Then, there's the brainiac theory about saving yourself from a falling elevator car by jumping, just before the car hits the bottom of the shaft.

I don't know how it is now, but when I was in high school, physics was an elective science class for seniors. It was one of the smallest classes I had ever been in before I went to college. The only attendees were those who intended to pursue engineering or science in college. The vast majority of the people elected to take basket weaving, or something easier. Personally, I think it should be a prerequisite for driver training.....but that's just me.
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Old 02-25-2014, 01:36 PM   #41
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true!!!
You're dealing with a general public that doesn't understand why a train "hit" some innocent people in a car who drove past the crossing gates and got killed. They can't understand why the "train driver" didn't put on the brakes to stop in time. Of course they demonize the poor old crew, and the railroad, and lament the lost lives of those who were so cruelly taken by the demon train.
You're also dealing with a general public that doesn't understand that the train crew is just as traumatized by a tragic accident. An old friend, retired Santa Fe conductor, told me the two accidents trainmen feared the most "were hitting a gasoline truck and hitting a school bus. One you wouldn't survive, the other one you didn't want to."
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Old 02-25-2014, 07:06 PM   #42
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VERY true!!!

You're dealing with a general public that doesn't understand why a train "hit" some innocent people in a car who drove past the crossing gates and got killed. They can't understand why the "train driver" didn't put on the brakes to stop in time. Of course they demonize the poor old crew, and the railroad, and lament the lost lives of those who were so cruelly taken by the demon train.

The general public not only doesn't understand railroading, it gets an "F" in high school-level physics.
You are also dealing with the general public who needs a sign, warning label, someone to hold their hand and tell them that it's unsafe to walk on railroad tracks, and pull them from safety when they dont.

It's 2014, you dont need someone to tell you that it's:

- Dangerous to smoke ciggarettes
- Dangerous to drink and drive
- Dangerous to touch electrical wires
- Dangerous to drink hot coffee
- Dangerous to sniff glue
- Dangerous to put your hand on a hot stove
- Dangerous to walk on railroad tracks, bridges, stand in front of a moving train

Sometimes Darwin just needs to do his thing...
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Old 02-25-2014, 07:29 PM   #43
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Why didn't she just jump out of the way? Why didn't ANYONE just jump out of the way as soon as they heard the train coming (for at least a minute according to the article)??
People do things when they panic that later just doesn't make any sense.

That is why people who are stuck in stressful situations must train constantly.

Your reaction to danger must be second nature since you won't be using your full brain when the decision gets made that if it is wrong, you could end up dead too.

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......I think it should be a prerequisite for driver training.....but that's just me.
In drivers ED, they showed us all these crash films done with slow motion photography (back when that was cutting edge stuff) by UCLA in the 70's with the dummies and all.

Boy, between watching those and going to the junk yard and finding flesh and hair in all the spots where the dummies in the films impacted with the inside of the car, that was enough for me.

I have always been a big proponent of seat belts even before they were the law.

And yes, I agree with your assessment of Physics classes in HS, although now with common core curriculum in CA, there will be even fewer high school people taking it, and eventually they won't have any teachers qualified to teach it at the high school level.

But hey, everyone will be able to pass HS with a "D" or better!


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There are movie producers and directors who have the mentality that if they can "steal" a shot and get away with it, it's OK.
It is true, the blame for some of the world's biggest fuc_k ups can be squarely placed on the blatant arrogance and/or extreme hubris of the person in charge.

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Old 02-25-2014, 10:43 PM   #44
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Well, looks like I was wrong:

http://variety.com/2014/film/news/mi...ls-1201115360/
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Old 02-26-2014, 12:02 AM   #45
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Well reading that just makes me think that everything was too relaxed.

1. CSX gave them permission but told them, "There's gonna be 2 trains but if there's a 3rd, you'll hear it." That's bad on CSX's part. If you have someone laying down on a mattress on your track, you need to know exactly what trains are coming and at what time. And you need to have someone from the railroad there with them. And there should probably be a slow order out. From what this article is saying, it was basically "Yeah, go ahead and lay down on these active tracks."

2. They had permission to be in that "general area." Shouldn't CSX and the company that owns the land know exactly where they are at?

3. This article says they knew a 3rd train was possible. Bad judgement call to film on the tracks. And then on a bridge? I mean who says, "Hey, let's go put a bed on railroad tracks and film for a few a hours." There is technology to prevent having to do that and if you can't afford it, I'm sure there were abandoned tracks nearby.
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Old 02-26-2014, 12:09 AM   #46
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If a CSX employee gave permission under those terms, he will be a former CSX employee quickly. The company requirements for being on their property are much more involved.

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Old 02-26-2014, 12:12 AM   #47
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There's been several reports, even from law enforcement that have said the crew did not have permission to be on the tracks. Let's stop perpetuating false rumors that say they had permission...
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Old 02-26-2014, 12:23 AM   #48
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I seriously doubt that they had permission as well.

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Old 02-26-2014, 12:24 AM   #49
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I think its pretty clear that there is no way that CSX gave them permission to set up here. This is one of their busiest mainlines in the area and I doubt whatever tiny film studio this was could have paid them enough to hold up traffic, hence why they tried to steal the shot. I can think of several shortline owned bridges in the area that wouldve been far easier to get permission to shoot on.
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Old 02-26-2014, 12:29 AM   #50
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The bed was hit by the train and shattered, sending debris flying. One large piece of debris hit Jones as she was running and knocked her onto the tracks.
Is this comment implying she was off the tracks and the piece of the debris hit her and knocked her back ON to the tracks? That seems physically impossible. Pieces of an object, shattered by a train, would fly forward and outward. If she was to the left or right of the tracks, how could something, on an outward trajectory, hit her and knock her back INTO the path of the train?

Or, was she running down the middle of the tracks (which I still don't understand why anyone would do if you're running from a train), and got knocked forward onto the rails?
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