Old 01-03-2020, 02:43 AM   #26
KevinM
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Originally Posted by Colebrookdale Railfan View Post
Where is the line drawn between an obstruction and "just part of the scene?" I give to you these examples:
559383
721489
721490
The steam is partially or almost completely blocking the locomotive as a result of poor timing, fouling otherwise decent shots. I know a lot of people are guilty of this during blow downs, specifically with the 113 trips in my neck of the woods. Just wondering what y'all think of it.
Well.....I suspect this one is right in my wheelhouse.

A couple of things.... The examples cited don't appear to be blow-downs. It's just steam from the cylinder cocks when the locomotive is starting to move. The cylinder cocks are opened to release any liquid water that may have accumulated in the cylinders (so they don't hydro-lock and blow the cylinder heads off) and to warm up the cylinders to ensure that steam does not immediately condense and add to the water issue. In all cases here, I think the photographer was timing the shot for maximum steam effects, which are really nice in cold or damp weather. They were going for an artistic effect as opposed to a clean shot of the locomotive, so I don't see any conflict with the RP rules at all.

Now, from a personal taste standpoint, I prefer not to have the steam blocking more than half the face of the locomotive, and I also tend to prefer steam under pressure as opposed to just wafting steam.....but that's me. When it comes to people in the "steam bath", I prefer either a pure silhouette, or the person's face being recognizable. I don't really like the in-between.

I was recently up at the WW&F for Victorian Christmas, and it was POURING FRICKEN RAIN. That made it a real challenge to shoot, but the steam effects were just awesome. I think I shot about 500 frames....and kept about 300 of those, deleting stuff that didn't meet the above criteria. I did a lot of bursting, and ended up with a ton of frames that were nearly identical.....but were so compelling that I just couldn't delete them. I may share a few in the next few days.
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Old 01-03-2020, 03:26 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by Colebrookdale Railfan View Post
Where is the line drawn between an obstruction and "just part of the scene?" I give to you these examples:
559383
721489
721490
The steam is partially or almost completely blocking the locomotive as a result of poor timing, fouling otherwise decent shots. I know a lot of people are guilty of this during blow downs, specifically with the 113 trips in my neck of the woods. Just wondering what y'all think of it.
I find these "obstructions" to be atmosphere, not obstruction, which, by my definition is an opaque solid object that most often can be avoided by better selection of photo location.

On another subject, Are you really from the Colebrookdale area? While some folks in western PA use the term "y'uns", no one from north of the Mason-Dixon Line says "y'all".
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Old 01-03-2020, 11:49 AM   #28
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Distracting obstruction.

How about TP on the windows.

Image © Cory Claxon
PhotoID: 721521
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I remember when there was the little thing over CN crew hanging things from cab to thwart railfans in Minnesota. Being 1/1 I guess there could be other reasons. Showing how observant I am, on Chase's version which was a longer zoom I didn't really pay attention and he ignored it which was probably better.

Of course y'all don't want to be the second guy to post, ain't so. Pretty hard tho when the first is probably from laptop in car.

Bob

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Old 01-03-2020, 11:54 AM   #29
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Distracting obstruction.


Of course y'all don't want to be the second guy to post, ain't so. Pretty hard tho when the first is probably from laptop in car.

Bob
I see what you're trying to do there. I know Illinois politics can be confusing, but I didn't think it was a Confederate state.
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Old 01-03-2020, 12:21 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Colebrookdale Railfan View Post
Where is the line drawn between an obstruction and "just part of the scene?" I give to you these examples:
559383
721489
721490
The steam is partially or almost completely blocking the locomotive as a result of poor timing, fouling otherwise decent shots. I know a lot of people are guilty of this during blow downs, specifically with the 113 trips in my neck of the woods. Just wondering what y'all think of it.
I consider it atmosphere and makes the shot more interesting.

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Old 01-03-2020, 12:21 PM   #31
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I see what you're trying to do there. I know Illinois politics can be confusing, but I didn't think it was a Confederate state.
Once you go south of Springfield you would be surprised. Have a great New Year and Bless Your Heart.

I was from Central Wisconsin, and as I remember it was common to say ain't so" like " was a great day, ain't so".

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Old 01-03-2020, 12:22 PM   #32
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Distracting obstruction.

How about TP on the windows.

Image © Cory Claxon
PhotoID: 721521
Photograph © Cory Claxon


I remember when there was the little thing over CN crew hanging things from cab to thwart railfans in Minnesota. Being 1/1 I guess there could be other reasons. Showing how observant I am, on Chase's version which was a longer zoom I didn't really pay attention and he ignored it which was probably better.

Of course y'all don't want to be the second guy to post, ain't so. Pretty hard tho when the first is probably from laptop in car.

Bob
the Ohio River Sub is not known as a railfan friendly location. They have their reasons, however.

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Old 01-03-2020, 01:30 PM   #33
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On another subject, Are you really from the Colebrookdale area? While some folks in western PA use the term "y'uns", no one from north of the Mason-Dixon Line says "y'all".
Clearly you haven't spoken to some of the mountain men in Central PA. You're right though, here in the Reading area and Philly suburbs, the correct terminology is "yous."

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Old 01-03-2020, 01:37 PM   #34
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Clearly you haven't spoken to some of the mountain men in Central PA. You're right though, here in the Reading area and Philly suburbs the correct terminology is "yous."
I grew up in the Lehigh Valley, and spent 24 years of my post-college life in Montgomery, Chester, and Lehigh Counties. Never do I recall "youse guys" as an indigenous term. That was considered to tag someone from NJ or NYC. More typical would be the term of agreement, "say".
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Old 01-03-2020, 04:18 PM   #35
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the Ohio River Sub is not known as a railfan friendly location. They have their reasons, however.

Loyd L.
Maybe past visitors???

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Old 01-03-2020, 05:05 PM   #36
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Maybe past visitors???

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Bob
I've never been there, so you can't blame me!
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Old 01-03-2020, 05:30 PM   #37
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I've never been there, so you can't blame me!
I was, longest wait for a train but last trip with Patch. Spent a lot of time walking around the block. LOL

Bob
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Old 01-03-2020, 05:31 PM   #38
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Maybe past visitors???

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Bob


I am not the responsible party, as my shots are TP free!





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Old 01-03-2020, 05:48 PM   #39
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I find it rather funny that the crew took the time to clutter their loco to try and deter someone form taking a photo. Especially when it can me edited out.
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Old 01-03-2020, 06:05 PM   #40
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I find it rather funny that the crew took the time to clutter their loco to try and deter someone form taking a photo. Especially when it can me edited out.
You would be surprised how often it happens on the main lines... Toilet paper, crew packs, trash bags, reflective vests, etc. Usually courtesy of a crew who's been burnt by their photo being taken previously.

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Old 01-03-2020, 09:52 PM   #41
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Toilet paper, crew packs, trash bags, reflective vests, etc. Usually courtesy of a crew who's been burnt by their photo being taken previously.

Loyd L.
Burnt in what way? Did someone photograph and post an image depicting rules violations, or something of that sort?
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Old 01-03-2020, 10:52 PM   #42
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Burnt in what way? Did someone photograph and post an image depicting rules violations, or something of that sort?
Kevin,

There are railfans that do lots of stupid stuff because the treat their hobby as an entitlement instead of realizing that they could be interfering with other people's means of earning a living.

It wasn't on this line, but look up "Railroaders, Railfans, and “The Letter”" on the Trains Magazine website for one of the most notorious stories of a rail photographer getting a crew in trouble. I am still amazed at what a prolific photographer would do because he had a bad day.

I'm sure many more immature members of our hobby have done other things because they had a bone to pick with a crew. They don't understand that a bad day, no matter what the reason, is part of the game, and good days are so much better when they come together.
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Old 01-04-2020, 06:32 PM   #43
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Burnt in what way? Did someone photograph and post an image depicting rules violations, or something of that sort?
Yes, even something extremely minor.

Railroads don't need much of a reason to hang a crew.

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Old 01-05-2020, 04:25 AM   #44
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...look up "Railroaders, Railfans, and “The Letter”" on the Trains Magazine website for one of the most notorious stories of a rail photographer getting a crew in trouble.
Whatever started the CN tit-for-tat, both parties could have chosen not to escalate and provoke!
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Old 01-05-2020, 01:49 PM   #45
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Yes, even something extremely minor.

Railroads don't need much of a reason to hang a crew.

Loyd L.
So, do railroads have a department that scours rail photography sites looking for photos that depict their crews doing things they shouldn't? This is all pretty new to me. Of course, I seldom raise a camera to regular railroads, so I'm pretty oblivious to any "games" that might be going on between conventional "railfans" and train crews.

The only things I ever see are the dumb things that bystanders and foamers do around tourist trains. Yesterday, I watched a group of clueless landscape photographers stop Conway Scenic's annual "Steam in the Snow" excursion, just east of 4th Iron Bridge. They had set their photo line so close to the tracks that the engineer just wasn't comfortable proceeding. I had tried to convince these folks to join me and several others for what would be a much better (not to mention SAFER) shot of the train.....but they had politely refused. Hey, what the hell do I know about photography?
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Old 01-05-2020, 02:01 PM   #46
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The only things I ever see are the dumb things that bystanders and foamers do around tourist trains. Yesterday, I watched a group of clueless landscape photographers stop Conway Scenic's annual "Steam in the Snow" excursion, just east of 4th Iron Bridge. They had set their photo line so close to the tracks that the engineer just wasn't comfortable proceeding. I had tried to convince these folks to join me and several others for what would be a much better (not to mention SAFER) shot of the train.....but they had politely refused. Hey, what the hell do I know about photography?
The issue with non-fans and quite a few fans with cameras is that they think the best photo is closest to the train. They never realize that they can get the same perspective when the train is standing at a station stop, and a photo depicting the train in its environment is much better.
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Old 01-06-2020, 02:59 AM   #47
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Obviously we jumped to the wrong conclusion as the last comment explains it perfectly.
I am not sure if I should ...............
Bob

"Posted by -----------------on January 3, 2020
From what I can tell it looks like the windows were dirty. Instead of hanging over the cowl with a rag, I suspect that they put the toilet paper under the wipers to clean the windows. Far easier than stretching your hand across the window where you might fall."
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Old 01-06-2020, 03:28 AM   #48
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Obviously we jumped to the wrong conclusion as the last comment explains it perfectly.
I am not sure if I should ...............
Bob

"Posted by -----------------on January 3, 2020
From what I can tell it looks like the windows were dirty. Instead of hanging over the cowl with a rag, I suspect that they put the toilet paper under the wipers to clean the windows. Far easier than stretching your hand across the window where you might fall."
If that were the case, I'm guessing it wasn't toilet paper (which would shred instantly), but Bounty or some other stout paper towel material, which would likely do the job nicely.
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Old 01-06-2020, 04:10 AM   #49
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Obviously we jumped to the wrong conclusion as the last comment explains it perfectly.
I am not sure if I should ...............
Bob

"Posted by -----------------on January 3, 2020
From what I can tell it looks like the windows were dirty. Instead of hanging over the cowl with a rag, I suspect that they put the toilet paper under the wipers to clean the windows. Far easier than stretching your hand across the window where you might fall."
The toilet paper hanging from the mirrors does a great
cleaning job too. Great explanation if called onto the carpet though.

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Old 01-06-2020, 04:13 AM   #50
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So, do railroads have a department that scours rail photography sites looking for photos that depict their crews doing things they shouldn't? This is all pretty new to me. Of course, I seldom raise a camera to regular railroads, so I'm pretty oblivious to any "games" that might be going on between conventional "railfans" and train crews.
Not an official department, but RR management and law enforcement are quite familiar with online locations to go digging if a situation warrants.

The best policy as a railfan is if you think you've taken a photo that could cause an issue, don't post it. If you happen to get tp'd by a crew, laugh and get over it. The fact is that 90% of us would be fired in a month or less if our day to day dealings were photographed without our complete knowledge and those photos be available for viewing by our direct management. Lol

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