Old 02-24-2007, 06:39 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by JimThias
So at what point in time do you finally take that step forward and catch up with the current technology? By that reasoning, you should probably still be using a computer from 5-10 years ago, because news one obviously raise the risk of crashing.
No, I am talking about buying horrendous, cheap, no-name brands that should be avoided like the plague.

If it has gargantuan capacity, then I would just question the quality of the product. That's all.
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Old 02-24-2007, 06:54 PM   #52
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No, I am talking about buying horrendous, cheap, no-name brands that should be avoided like the plague.

Ahh, ok. Well I just bought a 250 gig LaCie firewire drive for just over $100. I've been using LaCie drives/burners for nearly ten years and have been very satisfied with their quality. I'm sure there are cheaper no-name brands, as well as more expensive, higher quality brands.

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If it has gargantuan capacity, then I would just question the quality of the product. That's all.
Well, you know, today's 250 gig drives were considered gargantuan just a few short years ago. Don't forget, they already have terabyte drives as well, so by that comparison, my 250 gig drive is going to be considered small in just a few short years.
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Old 02-24-2007, 09:13 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by Ween
Assumption. For what it's worth, the way I have my camera sitting in the camera bag, it lays on its left side with the card side pointing straight up, ripe for me to pluck the card without ever lifting the camera. Any more assumptions I can clear up for you?
Wow. If picking up your camera is too much work, I feel sorry for you. Since the original topic of this thread was safety of memory cards, don't you think it's safer to keep the card in the camera to transfer the files? You never take it out so there is no chance of touching the contacts and only one device reads it. So the only way for it to fail is if the camera fails. Plus, if you feel the need to reformat, you can do it right there in the camera which I guess is the better way of doing it.
Do you always have your camera sitting in your bag on its side? I wouldn't do that.
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Old 02-24-2007, 09:35 PM   #54
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Do you always have your camera sitting in your bag on its side? I wouldn't do that.
What difference does it make which direction your camera is sitting in the bag? It would certainly be news to me if it did make a difference. Heck, mine is subjected to every position possible when I'm carrying it around!
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Old 02-24-2007, 09:52 PM   #55
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What difference does it make which direction your camera is sitting in the bag? It would certainly be news to me if it did make a difference. Heck, mine is subjected to every position possible when I'm carrying it around!
You obviously misread what was said. He puts his camera on its side and I prefer to leave mine upright. Nothing was ever said about what direction the camera is facing.
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Old 02-24-2007, 10:09 PM   #56
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You obviously misread what was said. He puts his camera on its side and I prefer to leave mine upright. Nothing was ever said about what direction the camera is facing.
Actually, he read it correctly. What difference does it make how the camera sits in the bag? Here's why it works for me: the camera's grip is facing up. That allows me to grab the grip and reduce the chances of me dropping the camera or knocking the lens against the steering wheel (which happens if I grab by the neck strap) when I take the camera from the bag.

And, since you're still upset I'm not confomring to your way, Mike, another reason I choose to leave my camera in the bag and transfer the CF card to the reader is because the way I have my computer desk set up doesn't leave me enough desktop space to place my camera safely on. What little space is there sees a greater chance of the camera being knocked to the floor, which has a higher probability of kill than taking the card out of the camera and worrying about bending the contacts.

If you want, I can attach some photos to show you what I'm working with as far as desktop space goes, how my car's set up, how my camera sits in my bag, the location of the card reader next to the computer, where I place my camera bag in my car (it's in the front passenger seat, un-seat belted-yet-still subject to a deploying air bag), etc. if that'll help you visualize how chose to do things!
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Old 02-24-2007, 11:04 PM   #57
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I format after every use of my cards. I was told that a reformat was the same as a defrag of the computer and should be done to clear off any fragments of info remaining behind and likely to corrupt any new information. I have only ever had a card crash once and of course it was while I was overseas with not to be repeated shots. It seems that a bad batch of cards was produced. Saved most of my shots with the aid of a pro and recovery software. Some of my early Japan shots from that card are on this site now. I now run a 20D with a 1G card and a 5D with a 4G card. When travelling I use a 20G Delkin picture pad to save my shots. I never connect my camera to my computer.....card reader only.
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Old 02-24-2007, 11:16 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by Andrew Blaszczyk (2)
There are several reasons why I haven't gone into the RAW movement.



3.) I have yet to see or hear anything that gives RAW the edge over JPEG's.

Like was said in a different thread, I try to get the photo as close to perfect while taking it as possible. I have nothing against processing as I spend a lot of time doing it myself, but I'd rather do the work on it on the camera while I'm trackside instead of at home.

Maybe I'm crazy and/or wrong and someone can enlighten me. I won't give it a go until I KNOW I can work with them. There's no point shooting in a format you can't do anything with!

Firstly I suggest you read this:-

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/es...awtruth1.shtml

Like lots of people I go out and make mistakes. Grab the camera in a hurry, forget I have it set on manual or for a one stop under shot or whatever silly mistake is possible. I grab the shot and then realise what I've done. Now provided I have not made a shutter speed error and blurred there is a really good chance that the RAW file is going to save me as it gives me four stops of latitude before I take the image in to photoshop. It also lets me adjust the colour tones, the contrast, the sharpness and etc. The original file remains and can forever be tinkered with. It will not degrade like a JPEG. I use Canon.
There are better after market RAW processing software packages available.

No way would I go back to shooting JPEG. If your camera has a RAW capability then the manufacturer should have provided you with basic RAW processing software. Try it, it really is worth it.
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Old 02-25-2007, 12:12 AM   #59
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First of all, I am stunned that a photographer of Andrew's quality isn't at least familiar with the arguments in favor of raw, even if he has chosen to do JPG anyway, for the reasons that JPG are preferable. Andrew, you can't be serious in what you said, quoted below?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew
3.) I have yet to see or hear anything that gives RAW the edge over JPEG's.
Rod, you either miswrote or otherwise said something that is commonly stated or commonly stated unclearly, so let me clarify.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rod Williams
The original file remains and can forever be tinkered with. It will not degrade like a JPEG.
A JPG does not degrade. If one saves over a JPG, then yes the new copy is a slightly degraded version of the previous one each time. But if one simply opens the original file and processes it, but never ever saves back over it, instead saving to a new file, then the original file ALSO "remains and can forever be tinkered with."

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Old 02-25-2007, 01:07 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by Ween
Actually, he read it correctly. What difference does it make how the camera sits in the bag? Here's why it works for me: the camera's grip is facing up. That allows me to grab the grip and reduce the chances of me dropping the camera or knocking the lens against the steering wheel (which happens if I grab by the neck strap) when I take the camera from the bag.

And, since you're still upset I'm not confomring to your way, Mike, another reason I choose to leave my camera in the bag and transfer the CF card to the reader is because the way I have my computer desk set up doesn't leave me enough desktop space to place my camera safely on. What little space is there sees a greater chance of the camera being knocked to the floor, which has a higher probability of kill than taking the card out of the camera and worrying about bending the contacts.

If you want, I can attach some photos to show you what I'm working with as far as desktop space goes, how my car's set up, how my camera sits in my bag, the location of the card reader next to the computer, where I place my camera bag in my car (it's in the front passenger seat, un-seat belted-yet-still subject to a deploying air bag), etc. if that'll help you visualize how chose to do things!
I'm not trying to make anyone do things the way I do, I have no reason to. Now that we're talking about how a camera sits in a bag, I'm just going to leave this thread because it has just become pathetic.
Have fun.
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Old 02-25-2007, 03:18 AM   #61
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I gotta be honest with you, I'm still not seeing anything that is making me hate my decision to stick with JPEG. The ONLY reason as of now that I would go to RAW+JPEG (never just RAW) is for printing purposes, but I get excellent poster-size prints from my large JPEG's already.
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We open our RAW conversion software, and while viewing the image we make real time adjustments to exposure, contrast, color, White Balance, and anything needed to put the magic back in out gloomy day.
Or you can master how your camera works and do it out in the field like a real professional. I understand the advantages of shooting in RAW if you do mess up a shot, which I will admit to doing occasionally, but its usually something that even RAW can't help with (i.e. blurry, bad composition, etc.).

Man, I feel like Pat fighting against digitalizing! I keeeed! It's all good, man.
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Old 02-25-2007, 12:32 PM   #62
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I just got a 20X30 print, the largest my camera will do, of a high quality JPEG and, gasp, I think I may have grayscaled this one. I'll turn myself into the nearest photog police officer I can find as soon as I stop crying in my milk. I just hope to God that when I open my camera case, the camera is sitting upright in perfect position. But at least I post process my photos.



Relax. This is a hobby for most of us and even in my day job, photojournalist for a TV station, there are about ten thousand different ways to get the same results.


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Old 02-25-2007, 04:42 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by Mike B.
You obviously misread what was said. He puts his camera on its side and I prefer to leave mine upright. Nothing was ever said about what direction the camera is facing.
No, I understood fully. You commented about never leaving your camera on its side. I said "what difference does it make which way the camera is facing?"

"Facing" equates to which way its sitting in your bag, on the floor, in your car, wherever. On its side, its back, its top, whatever...that means "facing" in my terms. As in, if it's laying on it's back (and not sitting upright), then it is facing up.

Again, what difference does it make? Are the minimal movable parts inside going to be effected by which direction the camera is facing? I'd like to read some proof regarding this issue.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike B.
I'm not trying to make anyone do things the way I do, I have no reason to. Now that we're talking about how a camera sits in a bag, I'm just going to leave this thread because it has just become pathetic.
Have fun.
Mike, instead of running away, why don't you address my question? WHY do you prefer to leave yours "upright?"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Blaszczyk (2)
Or you can master how your camera works and do it out in the field like a real professional.
No one is perfect. No condition is perfect. No equipment is perfect.
Even the masters screw up shots, and even they bracket their shots at times.
Thus, there can always be processing done to a shot to make it more appealing to the viewer. Some shots need it, some shots don't. That's life.

Last edited by JimThias; 02-25-2007 at 04:50 PM.
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Old 02-25-2007, 05:12 PM   #64
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Andrew,

I shoot strictly in JPG unless I'm shooting nature photos. I found with RAW that my photos seemed to "dry" and brought out more detail than was in the photo to start with. I've struggled for months going back and forth, side by side comparision. Yes some were better, but overall JPG won out. As far as prints I recently did a 24"x36" poster from a JPG for an employee at GE and from what he says, and I think he is picky, said it looks incredible! We used an online company called epingo.com, farily reasonable and they do good work it seems.

As far as camera position? Who cares, my position is which ever way it lands in my bag when I toss it in it. Most of the time it's flat on the seat next to me.

Well off to catch a 6hr late Amtrak then watch some Nascar!
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Old 02-25-2007, 06:36 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimThias
No one is perfect. No condition is perfect. No equipment is perfect. Even the masters screw up shots, and even they bracket their shots at times. Thus, there can always be processing done to a shot to make it more appealing to the viewer. Some shots need it, some shots don't. That's life.
Right, but if photographers (I'm not saying you or anyone else in these forums) shoot in RAW they MAY just settle for whatever they take and say "Oh well, I can fix the exposure, etc. in PS". I don't think that is the right mindset and one should always strive to be perfect, which of course will never happen but there's nothing wrong with trying. I just don't want to be dependent on editing programs when I have a $1000 piece of equipment in my hands. If you spend that kind of money, you might as well learn how to use it to its full potential. I understand what you are saying that an adjustment in exposure will more than likely be neeed, but all of that can be done in JPEG without losing any quality.
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Old 02-25-2007, 06:56 PM   #66
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Right, but if photographers (I'm not saying you or anyone else in these forums) shoot in RAW they MAY just settle for whatever they take and say "Oh well, I can fix the exposure, etc. in PS". I don't think that is the right mindset and one should always strive to be perfect, which of course will never happen but there's nothing wrong with trying.
I ALWAYS strive for the perfect exposure. But unfortunately, even when the camera is telling me it is exposing the image perfectly, the limitations of a Canon 350D don't allow for the highest quality exposure possible. Hence, there's always some room for a little processing.
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Old 02-25-2007, 09:55 PM   #67
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Mike, instead of running away, why don't you address my question? WHY do you prefer to leave yours "upright?"
Wow, to think I was the one who was said to be upset over this. I gladly pass that trophy onto you.
I can't believe why you're asking me why I keep my camera upright. In fact, that's such a stupid question, I'm not even going to answer that.
This thread is just stupid now.
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Old 02-25-2007, 10:00 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike B.
In fact, that's such a stupid question, I'm not even going to answer that.
That's clearly because you don't have an answer and instead of gracefully bowing out and admitting your fault you're taking the cowards way out.

Quote:
This thread is just stupid now.
Actually I'm finding the discussion on RAW vs. JPEG to be quite helpful. This debate of how your camera sits was the stupid part; should never have been brought up as its not even an issue.

Moving on...
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Old 02-25-2007, 10:23 PM   #69
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That's clearly because you don't have an answer and instead of gracefully bowing out and admitting your fault you're taking the cowards way out.
Thanks, Andrew.

Let's review this once again:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike B.
Do you always have your camera sitting in your bag on its side? I wouldn't do that.

Mike, your comment implies there is something WRONG with a camera sitting on its side.

Is it really THAT hard for you to explain to us WHY you believe that? That's all I'm asking.

There's nothing "stupid" about this discussion. Just answer the question. It's really THAT simple.

Last edited by JimThias; 02-25-2007 at 10:26 PM.
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Old 02-25-2007, 11:52 PM   #70
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What is wrong with you people? I can't believe I'm getting flamed for saying that I prefer to have my camera sit upright.
I don't see how I'm being a coward because I refused to answer a stupid question. Even more so, I don't see what there is to admit fault to in the first place. I didn't do anything wrong, and neither did any of you.
I never said there was something wrong with putting your camera on its side. All I said was that I don't like to do that, that's all. I'm trying to think of a reason to keep the camera upright but all I can think of is why I wouldn't. Maybe I'm weird because I like to have my things upright. I'm sorry if I step on someones toes by that comment, I didn't realize it was such a sensitive area.
I don't care how any of you store your cameras, I was just stating my opinion, sorry if it was too much for you.

Jim: If you really don't think this little conversation we're having about how a camera should sit is stupid, then I'm afraid you have a problem.

I sure hope the rest of the members of this forum aren't like you guys.
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Old 02-26-2007, 12:12 AM   #71
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Mike, what are you getting all worked up about? Calm down, man.

Look, you implied something was wrong with sitting a camera a certain way. The fact that you can't explain WHY you think something is wrong with it certainly shows that you made the comment without thinking first.

So, since you CAN'T answer the question, I'll just take it as a random nonsense comment you made without thinking about it first.

Sorry, I tend to be overly logical and analytical, so when someone makes a completely IDIOTIC and baseless comment like you did, I'm tempted to challenge it.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike B.
I sure hope the rest of the members of this forum aren't like you guys.
Awe, you poor little fella! I think I got a tear in my eye when I read that last line.

Last edited by JimThias; 02-26-2007 at 12:16 AM.
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Old 02-26-2007, 12:16 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by JimThias
Mike, what are you getting all worked up about? Calm down, man.

Look, you implied something was wrong with sitting a camera a certain way. The fact that you can't explain WHY you think something is wrong with it certainly shows that you made the comment without thinking first.

So, since you CAN'T answer the question, I'll just take it as a random nonsense comment you made without thinking about it first.

Sorry, I tend to be overly logical and analytical, so when someone makes a completely IDIOTIC and baseless comment like you did, I'm tempted to challenge it.

You think it's IDIOTIC for me to say that I don't like to leave my camera on its side? What is wrong with that? I know I'm not the only one who doesn't like it to be on it's side unless it has to be.

Nice edit BTW.
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Old 02-26-2007, 12:18 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by Mike B.
You think it's IDIOTIC for me to say that I don't like to leave my camera on its side? What is wrong with that? I know I'm not the only one who doesn't like it to be on it's side unless it has to be.
Hmmm...I've read that sentence a few times and I still don't see a reason WHY you feel that way about a piece of electronics that is NOT affected by the way it sits.

Is your answer hidden in code in there somewhere? Am I overlooking it? Please try again...I believe I missed it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike B.
Nice edit BTW.

As opposed to...?
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Old 02-26-2007, 01:39 AM   #74
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Oops, duplicate post!

Last edited by Fotaugrafee, Ink.; 02-26-2007 at 01:48 AM.
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Old 02-26-2007, 01:47 AM   #75
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Drew, not everyone shoots with a 6-8 megapixel body, either. RAW files from a larger body like a 5D or 1DS-MarkII take up alot more space. Even with my 20D, I can get about 222 RAW images onto a 2GB card. You may not shoot RAW files, but others do, especially for various forms of publication, so the space is needed.

When I was working for NS, it was especially important to have the space on vacation, because I'd spend a day or two on some god forsaken route in Alabama or Illinois in search of calendar submissions (or photos for the PR department). Mind you, I only had 512MB as well. Heck

On any given trip, even after edit / removal each night, I will shoot over 600-800 images. At the time, I didn't have external storage (or a laptop) to transfer my images while on the road for 2 weeks at a time.

Mind you, if you (or anyone else) is in the market for a used 512MB Ultra II or 1GB Extreme III Sandisk CF card, I have one of each available for sale ($40 or both). Honestly, it's stunning to see how much memory has come down, I recall seeing 8GB CF cards for over $700 just a year ago. Now, you can get twice that (yes, 16GB) for about $580...or better yet, two 8GB cards for $270 each (excluding the current available rebates)!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Blaszczyk (2)
On a side note, I don't understand how people can trust larger CF cards. I do have a 2GB card that I got as a gift, but that is the only card I will ever own over 512MB, I would never risk losing 500+ photos (I don't shoot RAW) at once in case something did happen. Two 512's = 1GB so whats the difference besides convienence which is taken care of with a pocket-sized 4-card case.
As for "editing RAW's", Joe, maybe I'm behind the times, but I didn't think you can edit directly from RAW. The deal with RAW as far as publication goes is that the user of the image knows it hasn't been edited / post-processed already, in addition to the extra "umph" that it brings to the table. Therefore, whatever software came with your Canon is most likely the same software to extract the JPG from it. The 20D and others of it's ilk allow you to shoot RAW+JPEG files, but that takes up too much room. I'd rather just extract the file, it's not as though the combo files are saving me any time ~ rather, only burning space I don't always have on the road.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike B.
Why don't all of you just transfer the photos through the camera onto the computer?
Because it draws my battery down, even with the vertical grip (extra battery). Dumping my disk to the computer isn't that time-consuming, but charging the batteries isn't a pleasure when I'm on the road, esp. if I need to charge both in a single night (time I'd rather spend sleeping off the 12-14 hour day).

The terabyte drives, IMO, are mainly for A) people who are shooting more photos than any single one of us can fathom, most likely for a full-time vocation in some sort of publication, or B) video, pure & simple.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimThias
Well, you know, today's 250 gig drives were considered gargantuan just a few short years ago. Don't forget, they already have terabyte drives as well, so by that comparison, my 250 gig drive is going to be considered small in just a few short years.
Loewpro backpack, by chance?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ween
If you want, I can attach some photos to show you what I'm working with as far as desktop space goes, how my car's set up, how my camera sits in my bag, the location of the card reader next to the computer, where I place my camera bag in my car (it's in the front passenger seat, un-seat belted-yet-still subject to a deploying air bag), etc. if that'll help you visualize how chose to do things!
Please, stop being a crybaby. A simple question was asked of you, and you failed to answer it. I sense some OCD or anal-retentiveness about your "upright camera" theory. You should read Jim's reply again...and again...and again. It's not IDIOTIC that you prefer to have your camera upright, it was the direct implication that you think there is something wrong with lying the camera in any other manner other than upright. If that's not how you meant it,...then WAALAH!!...point clarified, but we need to hear that from you, which I think was the question asked of you over & over & over (by JimThias).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike B.
Wow, to think I was the one who was said to be upset over this. I gladly pass that trophy onto you.
I can't believe why you're asking me why I keep my camera upright. In fact, that's such a stupid question, I'm not even going to answer that.
This thread is just stupid now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike B.
You think it's IDIOTIC for me to say that I don't like to leave my camera on its side?

Last edited by Fotaugrafee, Ink.; 02-26-2007 at 02:51 AM.
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