Old 05-02-2009, 03:04 AM   #1
A Siebold
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Default Processing Work-Flow?

I've been off for a short time due to some personal concerns, during which I lost the notes I had accumulated from various forum messages talking about possible work-flows. From memory - very faulty to be sure - I'm beginning to process out as below. What am I doing wrong? Should I re-order these steps. What have I left out? I'm now using PSE7.

1) convert to tiff files first thing.
2) resize to 1024x600 (or so)
3) straighten, level, etc.
4) crop as necessary.
5) play with the lighting -- levels, shadows/highlights
6) sharpen (although I lost the 'formula' somone published)
7) save as jpg for 'publication'.

What am I missing? Today I was able to get out again and get a couple of shots. While processing, the final product had tiny jaggies on the diagonal handrails when shown at 'actual pixels'.

You folk had been coaching me with a photo I had, but I needed to drop out right at the culmination of my (and your) efforts without following through further. For better or worse, I'm back.

Allen
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Old 05-02-2009, 03:22 AM   #2
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Based on what you're doing, I'd reorder things like this:

1) convert to tiff files first thing.
2) straighten, level, etc.
3) crop as necessary.
4) play with the lighting -- levels, shadows/highlights
5) sharpen (although I lost the 'formula' somone published) <-USM 100%/0.5 to 0.9/0
6) resize to 1024x600 (or so) <-light sharpen again after resizing (50%/0.5/0)
7) save as jpg for 'publication'.
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Old 05-02-2009, 06:14 AM   #3
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Thank you Ween...
I redid my photo and it definitely looks better using your pattern.

Allen
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Old 05-03-2009, 07:31 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ween View Post
Based on what you're doing, I'd reorder things like this:

1) convert to tiff files first thing.
2) straighten, level, etc.
3) crop as necessary.
4) play with the lighting -- levels, shadows/highlights
5) sharpen (although I lost the 'formula' somone published) <-USM 100%/0.5 to 0.9/0
6) resize to 1024x600 (or so) <-light sharpen again after resizing (50%/0.5/0)
7) save as jpg for 'publication'.
Ok, now I'm wondering, I assume we are starting off with a RAW file, but why wouldn't you just convert to a jpg first?

Bill
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Old 05-03-2009, 03:46 PM   #5
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Protip: Don't resize first. Ever. Resizing should be the LAST thing you do before a quick final sharpen and save.
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Old 05-03-2009, 04:40 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by sd9 View Post
Ok, now I'm wondering, I assume we are starting off with a RAW file, but why wouldn't you just convert to a jpg first?

Bill
For me, I work on it as a TIF (and save a copy as a TIF) because if I find out later I screwed something up, I can go back to the TIF and do some corrections without having lost any quality from opening and resaving a JPG.
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Old 05-03-2009, 06:32 PM   #7
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It isn't clear to me what this "work on it as a TIFF" means. I open a file from raw and from then on it is in some sort of internal PS Elements representation about which I do not and need not know. At the end I save as a jpg. Occasionally I feel the need to save an intermediate form and I generally do so using the PS format (.PSD, I think). I don't think we "work on it" as anything other than the software internal format. Even if we happen to save as TIFF or PSD, the internal data does not change.

BTW, one reopening and resave generally does not create noticeable losses in quality. I know never reopening is the gold standard and I avoid doing that, but if RP comes back at me for underexposed, I adjust the jpg instead of going back to the original or saved version and it is no big deal.
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Old 05-03-2009, 07:28 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trainboysd40 View Post
Protip: Don't resize first. Ever. Resizing should be the LAST thing you do before a quick final sharpen and save.
Damn, I'd better go back and redo all my shots in the database, then.
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Old 05-03-2009, 07:36 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by JimThias View Post
Damn, I'd better go back and redo all my shots in the database, then.
This sounds like another version of the gold standard that I wrote about above. Yes, in principle resizing is best done near the end because one retains all the detailed pixel-level color and exposure data and one can in theory do a bit better in processing. In practice it doesn't matter much, especially for web-sized images. I resize near the end, but I know I really don't have to, it is just a good habit. If I have already resized and I see one more adjustment I want to make, I go ahead and do it and don't worry about it.
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Old 05-03-2009, 07:52 PM   #10
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It isn't clear to me what this "work on it as a TIFF" means. I open a file from raw and from then on it is in some sort of internal PS Elements representation about which I do not and need not know.
I open up the RAW in ACR, fiddle with it there, and then save as a TIF. I open that TIF in CS2 and do the brunt of processing there, hence "work on it as a TIF."
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Old 05-03-2009, 08:00 PM   #11
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I open up the RAW in ACR, fiddle with it there, and then save as a TIF. I open that TIF in CS2 and do the brunt of processing there, hence "work on it as a TIF."
OK, but I am surprised, it isn't seamless in ACR/CS2 the way it is in ACR/PSE3? I open up the raw (not an acronym so lower caps, I will say for maybe the last time if I can control my self ) in ACR and when ACR is done the image opens up in PSE3, no intermediate step.

Actually, I don't open it in ACR, I open it in PSE3 but the first window to open is ACR and only later does the PSE3 window appear.
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Old 05-03-2009, 08:52 PM   #12
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J,

I think it is seemless to go from the DNG (aka the raw file) from ACR to CS2, but for me, I like the flow of saving as a TIF first before continuing the work. I don't have a good explanation for 'why' and I'm not saying that my way is the best way; it just works for me!
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Old 05-04-2009, 02:51 AM   #13
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To add to to what others have mentioned.

Keeping a copy as a TIFF can be great if you work in layers since TIFFs will keep layers instead of flatening the image like a JPG does. Of course the downside is that the file sizes can be dramatically different. A JPG from my cameras either the XT or 30D is usually around 4-7MB depending on what ISO it was shot at and how much color is in it. A TIFF with the usual layers and work that I do can easily be 60-150MB each. Also, working with and saving files as a TIFF allows you to use 16 or 32 bit color as compared to 8 bit, doing so would double my file size. Once I get a computer with better RAM (I only have 256mb) I plan to start working in 16 bit mode instead of 8.

I feel that the incredible size difference is worth it, when printing my TIFFs look much better than an image saved as JPG, I look forward to the improved difference once I start using 16bit instead of 8.



As for workflow, every photographer has their own preferred way that works best for them, there really is not a "right or wrong" way but there can be some ways that are better than others. As a "professional" working for other people doing portraits and weddings I feel the need and obligation to try my best to keep my image quality at the highest level it can be and want the image I had over to my client to have the best quality and lowest compression possible. I usually take the same approach to my train and non portrait work as I never know when I may decide to print a photo or do something with it beside posting it on RP.
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Old 05-19-2009, 09:41 PM   #14
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Well I throw in my two cents. Everyone does it different. As long as you get the results you want it doesn't matter. I mean RAW vs JPG, resize first or last, sharpen here or there and how to sharpen.

I gave up on RAW a long time ago, especially after I posted comparisions here and everyone thought my JPG's were the RAW photos! LOL

But I rotate, crop, resize, adjust contrast (variable), sharpen, adjust final levels. I don't convert my JPG to TIFF before working on them since I never save PP work over the orginal file, it's always a duplicate in another folder.

This works for me and my work here and other places prove it has.
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Old 05-20-2009, 02:12 AM   #15
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Cool What does TIFF do to benefit your photography?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joey Bowman View Post
To add to to what others have mentioned.

Keeping a copy as a TIFF can be great if you work in layers since TIFFs will keep layers instead of flatening the image like a JPG does. Of course the downside is that the file sizes can be dramatically different. A JPG from my cameras either the XT or 30D is usually around 4-7MB depending on what ISO it was shot at and how much color is in it. A TIFF with the usual layers and work that I do can easily be 60-150MB each. Also, working with and saving files as a TIFF allows you to use 16 or 32 bit color as compared to 8 bit, doing so would double my file size. Once I get a computer with better RAM (I only have 256mb) I plan to start working in 16 bit mode instead of 8.

I feel that the incredible size difference is worth it, when printing my TIFFs look much better than an image saved as JPG, I look forward to the improved difference once I start using 16bit instead of 8.



As for workflow, every photographer has their own preferred way that works best for them, there really is not a "right or wrong" way but there can be some ways that are better than others. As a "professional" working for other people doing portraits and weddings I feel the need and obligation to try my best to keep my image quality at the highest level it can be and want the image I had over to my client to have the best quality and lowest compression possible. I usually take the same approach to my train and non portrait work as I never know when I may decide to print a photo or do something with it beside posting it on RP.
This may sound silly to some but, I really am curious for myself. How are you gaining anything by saving to a 16 or 32 bit TIFF file if one never had that much information in the file to start with? I believe, the best in camera information can only be saved as 14 bit and that just depends on your particular body. It is possible that there is mathmatics going on here that is above my realm of thinking but, "upsampling" original file information sounds to me like Adobe is just making a "guess" as to what "should" be there as far as color and in the end, you would be adjusting that anyway. Plus, any color and noise adjustments are done to the taste of the shooter. Any takers on this?
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