Old 07-17-2010, 11:54 PM   #1
Mgoldman
Senior Member
 
Mgoldman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,641
Default Worthy of appeal? A 1/3 pacing shot.

I was on the fence on submitting this one but it went over well with a few friends and does have a certain amount of excitement carried through. Certainly tested the limits of my pacing capabilities - 1/3 of a second on a moving train was no soft challenge.

I was looking at it like birthday cake with a mis-spelled name. Off but tasty.

Thoughts and comments welcome.

http://www.railpictures.net/viewreje...&key=498983359

/Mitch
Mgoldman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2010, 12:49 AM   #2
Dennis A. Livesey
Senior Member
 
Dennis A. Livesey's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,985
Default

A Mitch Goldman shot bounced for being blurry.

Now that's rich.

Yeah, the back ground is blurry but the front logo is tack sharp and while the numbers boards are less sharp they are still perfectly acceptable.

It is a fierce, dynamic image and not really repetitive of anything in the DB or your collection.

Consequently, I have no clue as to the rejection. Maybe he rejected it on aesthetic grounds and just doesn't like the idea or he thinks there are too many blurry Goldman shots in the DB already, I dunno.

Appeal. Please appeal.

If it doesn't get in, can I have a copy?
__________________
Dennis

I Foam Therefore I Am.

My pix on RailPics:

I am on Flickr as well:

"Dennis is such a God, he could do that with a camera obscura and some homemade acetate." Holloran Grade

"To me it looks drawn in in Paintshop. It looks like a puddle of orange on the sky." SFO777
Dennis A. Livesey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2010, 01:08 AM   #3
troy12n
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 5,333
Default

It's not tack sharp, but it's close enough for being shot from a moving locomotive, assuming it is actually moving. Not to bring that up again...
troy12n is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2010, 01:45 AM   #4
JRMDC
Senior Member
 
JRMDC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 11,202
Default

Odd. I can only think that the screener is trying to say the blur is overdone, too long an exposure, and this is the only rejection option that is available that comes close.
__________________
My RP pix are here.
My Flickr pix are here.

My commentaries on rail pictures are in my blog.

RP Photo Albums:
Cabooses
Engine Details
Farm and Train
Plumes!
Railroad Details
Signal Details
Switchstand Shots
JRMDC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2010, 02:32 AM   #5
Joe the Photog
Senior Member
 
Joe the Photog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Columbia, SC
Posts: 7,898
Default

Now if the whistle and handrail and fringes of the locomotive wre also somehow blurred, then this shot would have made it in. Seriously, I don't see why it didn't make it. Looks good to my eyes.
__________________
Joe the Photog Dot Com
Joe the Photog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2010, 03:49 AM   #6
Greg P
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Baltimore MD
Posts: 1,003
Send a message via AIM to Greg P
Default

It appears to me that the right "501" numbers are blurry but that could just be my eyes.

It is a really nice shot, I hope it gets in.
Greg P is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2010, 04:27 AM   #7
rathman11
Senior Member
 
rathman11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Bolivar, MO
Posts: 243
Default

Mitch, I love the idea. However, I have to disagree with the others. From my HD monitor everything on the locomotive looks blurry from the handrails to the chain to the number boards. Maybe some additional sharpening could help but I can already start to see some jagged edges on the WM lettering so I'm not sure how far it would get you. Sure hope a corrected version or a similar image gets into the database.
__________________
Jason R.

My RP photos

Flickr Photos

Last edited by rathman11; 07-18-2010 at 04:27 AM. Reason: spelling
rathman11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2010, 05:26 AM   #8
Tgranville
Senior Member
 
Tgranville's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 258
Send a message via AIM to Tgranville Send a message via Yahoo to Tgranville
Default

I see what Greg is saying, esp on the numberboard and the open door of the cab. Maybe that is what the screener saw as well.

Great shot, btw.
__________________
"Never argue with a stupid person. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience."

My RP.net Photos

My Flickr Photos
Tgranville is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2010, 05:51 AM   #9
Mgoldman
Senior Member
 
Mgoldman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,641
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg P View Post
It appears to me that the right "501" numbers are blurry but that could just be my eyes.

It is a really nice shot, I hope it gets in.
That's the jist of it - give and take in my book. The better the cake is the more calories it has. Not too many 1/3 of a second ultra blurs in the database, nor have I seen elsewhere. This is one I wouldn't ponder a missing SC but it seems I a'm in the majority thinking it would be a worthy addition to the database.

Thanks!

/Mitch
Mgoldman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2010, 04:03 PM   #10
JimThias
Senior Member
 
JimThias's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 9,800
Default

Mitch, why is the right side of the nose (right side facing) of the loco blurry and the left is not? Identical DOF, no? Shouldn't both sides of the noes be equally in focus? I think that's the reason for rejection.
__________________
.
Rhymes with slice, rice and mice, and probably should be spelled like "Tice."

This pretty much sums it up: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Thias
JimThias is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2010, 04:11 PM   #11
Joe the Photog
Senior Member
 
Joe the Photog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Columbia, SC
Posts: 7,898
Default

I'm sure this isn't the only shot you took? You have a "faster" pace?
__________________
Joe the Photog Dot Com

Last edited by Joe the Photog; 07-18-2010 at 04:26 PM.
Joe the Photog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2010, 04:26 PM   #12
travsirocz
Senior Member
 
travsirocz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Eau Claire, WI
Posts: 2,459
Send a message via AIM to travsirocz
Default

The number boards are too blurry and the shot also looks over sharpened. It's a great shot that is only off by a hair. So close but the numberboards really standout.
travsirocz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2010, 05:22 PM   #13
Mgoldman
Senior Member
 
Mgoldman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,641
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimThias View Post
Mitch, why is the right side of the nose (right side facing) of the loco blurry and the left is not? Identical DOF, no? Shouldn't both sides of the noes be equally in focus? I think that's the reason for rejection.
Must be due to "off axis" camera movement. I've seen it before where only part of an image is out of focus or doubled. It was a tough shot - 1/3 on a rocking train. This was the best of the batch however - took a few but this was the only one in the tree tunnel and the only one at a slow enough shutter speed to create the desired sensation.

/Mitch
Mgoldman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2010, 06:41 PM   #14
Ween
Senior Member
 
Ween's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,861
Default

One thing that this thread points out is the opinions on whether it should have been accepted or rejected stand at about 50/50. This thread illustrates the job of the screeners to a tee...
__________________
Ween is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2010, 09:17 PM   #15
Holloran Grade
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: In the California Republic
Posts: 2,774
Lightbulb Blurred Number Boards - An RP.NET No, No.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mgoldman View Post
Must be due to "off axis" camera movement. I've seen it before where only part of an image is out of focus or doubled. It was a tough shot - 1/3 on a rocking train. This was the best of the batch however - took a few but this was the only one in the tree tunnel and the only one at a slow enough shutter speed to create the desired sensation.

/Mitch
Yes I agree, "off axis" movement.

One side is coming toward the camera, and the other moving away from it.

Example: Point of focus is on the 5001 number.



http://www.flickr.com/photos/3672212...7622154182672/

I like the shot, but the number boards are blurred (an RP no, no) and the area above the hood is blurred.

Were you to work on this with the clone tool, I think it could be cleaned up really well.

Last edited by Holloran Grade; 07-18-2010 at 09:19 PM.
Holloran Grade is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2010, 10:23 PM   #16
JimThias
Senior Member
 
JimThias's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 9,800
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Holloran Grade View Post
Yes I agree, "off axis" movement.

One side is coming toward the camera, and the other moving away from it.
Considering he is looking dead on straight at the nose...you're saying one side of the nose is coming toward him and the other is going away?
__________________
.
Rhymes with slice, rice and mice, and probably should be spelled like "Tice."

This pretty much sums it up: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Thias
JimThias is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2010, 01:53 AM   #17
Mgoldman
Senior Member
 
Mgoldman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,641
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimThias View Post
Considering he is looking dead on straight at the nose...you're saying one side of the nose is coming toward him and the other is going away?
Yes, in effect. I was not standing still nor was the train couplered to the car I was shooting from. Each was rocking as the shutter was open. I would bet that there was a slight twisting when I took the shot where the right side jarred a bit out of focus more then the left side. A jarring motion that likely caused me to tip the camera for a split second in an arcing motion whereby the right side had more movement then the left.

As for the slight blur being a no no on RP - who's to say. Consistency is an issue I perceive as problematic on RP. I've seen plenty of photos that shouldn't have been accepted, though, and most fortunately, I've seen a few that have been accepted with faults due to the nature, difficulty or uniqueness of the photo. Fortunately, Admin implemented the appeal and a second set of eyes can tip the balance - at times.

/Mitch
Mgoldman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2010, 04:05 AM   #18
JimThias
Senior Member
 
JimThias's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 9,800
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mgoldman View Post
Yes, in effect. I was not standing still nor was the train couplered to the car I was shooting from. Each was rocking as the shutter was open. I would bet that there was a slight twisting when I took the shot where the right side jarred a bit out of focus more then the left side. A jarring motion that likely caused me to tip the camera for a split second in an arcing motion whereby the right side had more movement then the left.
In that case I would have machine-gunned a sequence of shots to try to catch a pic "between" the rocking.
__________________
.
Rhymes with slice, rice and mice, and probably should be spelled like "Tice."

This pretty much sums it up: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Thias
JimThias is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2010, 04:35 AM   #19
Walter S
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: West Virginia
Posts: 1,023
Send a message via AIM to Walter S
Default

What bothers me about this shot is that the left side is sharp and the right is not. I had the same problem on a similar shot of a WM diesel I took. It was rejected also.


I think this type of shot is one of the most trickiest and challenging to do, but when done right it can be stunning. Not only do you have movement of the engine, you also have the movement of the car you are riding in. When I took the shot below I timed it so it would be taken when the car I was riding in was not hitting a rail joint, thus causing less vibration.

Image © WalterS
PhotoID: 214833
Photograph © WalterS
__________________
Walter Scriptunas II
Scriptunasimages.com
Walter S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2010, 05:09 AM   #20
Mgoldman
Senior Member
 
Mgoldman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,641
Default

Before I had my wide angle.... LOL

Image © Mitch Goldman
PhotoID: 140681
Photograph © Mitch Goldman

The video was much cooler.

/Mitch
Mgoldman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2010, 05:42 AM   #21
John West
Senior Curmudgeon
 
John West's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Mill Valley, CA
Posts: 1,081
Default

I liked Dennis' description of it as a "fierce, dynamic image". I like it from a graphic standpoint. And based on Walter's image, there is clearly a precedent for similar images on RP. But I do have to admit the number boards not being sharp bugs me. Net net I think it should be accepted, but clearly it is one of those border line situations....graphics versus "train pictures" with a few technical issues. But it is good to push RP's limits occasionally and create some debate.
__________________
John West
See my pix here and
here and here
John West is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2010, 06:10 AM   #22
Dennis A. Livesey
Senior Member
 
Dennis A. Livesey's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,985
Cool

Walter's image of Shay 11 is rapidly become iconic and is stunning.

But to be critical about nits, (since this is what I feel this rejection is about) I find that except for the bolts around the smokebox door, everything else is not "sharp" in Walter's image. The point being not all of the image need to be "perfect" for the shot to WORK.

Heck, I have been resisting, but here is another shot that's in and has even more blurry issues.

Image © Dennis A. Livesey-liveseyimages.com
PhotoID: 311793
Photograph © Dennis A. Livesey-liveseyimages.com
__________________
Dennis

I Foam Therefore I Am.

My pix on RailPics:

I am on Flickr as well:

"Dennis is such a God, he could do that with a camera obscura and some homemade acetate." Holloran Grade

"To me it looks drawn in in Paintshop. It looks like a puddle of orange on the sky." SFO777
Dennis A. Livesey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2010, 06:42 AM   #23
John West
Senior Curmudgeon
 
John West's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Mill Valley, CA
Posts: 1,081
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis A. Livesey View Post
Walter's image of Shay 11 is rapidly become iconic and is stunning.

But to be critical about nits, (since this is what I feel this rejection is about) I find that except for the bolts around the smokebox door, everything else is not "sharp" in Walter's image. The point being not all of the image need to be "perfect" for the shot to WORK.
Yes, we're talking about nit picking criticism of two very good images. Walter's image is generally soft, but it works. Probably partly because of the muddy lighting. By contrast, Mitch's image is high contrast, and that makes the lack of sharpness in the number boards standout....especially the right one. I get very uncomfortable looking at that right number board.
__________________
John West
See my pix here and
here and here
John West is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2010, 06:55 AM   #24
Mgoldman
Senior Member
 
Mgoldman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,641
Default

No dice.
Thanks for the kind comments and support.

I gotta set of high standards to live up to which is supported in this situation - let's hope that such standards become universally adheared to on RP.

/Mitch

(Not to say I don't think it's still a "fun" shot - I have a photo of a Big Boy with a light pole sticking out the center of the boiler, that's a detraction as well, but there was enough good to overide "the bad" - and there, all I did was walk up and press the shutter button).
Mgoldman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2010, 12:26 PM   #25
cassfan3
Senior Member
 
cassfan3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 172
Default

It is a very fun shot - not that it doesn't have some technical issues as mentioned before - but it seems that recently RP has leaned away from taking shots that are more interesting/unique than average with some technical flaws in favor of a well lit wedge parade. Not that some good shots haven't been posted recently, but it seems like unique value holds less weight over technicalities like it used to.
__________________
http://www.railpictures.net/showphotos.php?userid=13200

-Nick McLean
Greenville, NC
cassfan3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 08:01 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.