Old 11-07-2015, 08:29 PM   #1
baggydave
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Unhappy Losing the war and not even winning a battle

http://www.railpictures.net/viewreje...47&key=2276571
http://www.railpictures.net/viewreje...61&key=2407613
http://www.railpictures.net/viewreje...96&key=8307808

If anyone can explain then I would be delighted to comprehend.
First one has some rail content
second has lots of bits flying in the air which no-one seems to be able to see. I really don't see any grain but we've been down that road and I won't bother again
Third seems to have some historical interest from what I have found out and the light on the nose is not that dark as far as my screen tells me
I really wouldn't make much of it but when I see what has been allowed on the site I am in danger of getting a persecution complex Dave
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Old 11-07-2015, 08:53 PM   #2
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I like all of them. I guess they're not your usual 3/4 sunny wedgy so the screener passed. Try putting them on here, where these kinds of shots are lauded:

https://www.flickr.com/groups/railphoto/
(group is "Progressive and Artistic Railway Photography")


Kent in SD
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Old 11-07-2015, 08:54 PM   #3
John West
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Remember, you are justified in being paranoid when the world really is out to get you. I particularly like the first one, although perhaps a different angle would have been even better. But I am surprised it was rejected. The second one is interesting, but the blowing coal dust gives it a strange look. It might be a good depiction of the scene, but the result could be considered somewhat unattractive and not interesting enough to offset that. The third is a "record" shot of some deteriorating historic equipment and apparently the screener didn't feel it was interesting enough. To be happy in this place one has to be a bit fatalistic, and perhaps a streak of masochism helps, and that is especially true when you deviate from 3/4 well lit front views of locomotives.
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Old 11-08-2015, 02:25 AM   #4
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number 2 it seems I saw another one at the same spot at same vantage, I'd try to mix it up a little??? if possible. It is pretty neat but even if it is dark I don't like the headlights, maybe they mean "grain" dust, not sure how you can tell, but the plow looks a little funky.

number 3. I think the reason for the rejection is funny. No sun on the nose of junk??

Number 1 looks fine as others have said.

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Old 11-08-2015, 05:33 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John West View Post
Remember, you are justified in being paranoid when the world really is out to get you. I particularly like the first one, although perhaps a different angle would have been even better. But I am surprised it was rejected. The second one is interesting, but the blowing coal dust gives it a strange look. It might be a good depiction of the scene, but the result could be considered somewhat unattractive and not interesting enough to offset that. The third is a "record" shot of some deteriorating historic equipment and apparently the screener didn't feel it was interesting enough. To be happy in this place one has to be a bit fatalistic, and perhaps a streak of masochism helps, and that is especially true when you deviate from 3/4 well lit front views of locomotives.

I'm with John for the most part -

Paranoid is an acceptable feeling when you, especially as a well revered and followed patron, have multiple rejections back to back to back, ect. Without so much as even a comment from the screener. A disgrace in my opinion which is doing this site no favors.

As for the images;

Looks like you'd have had better light on the nose on the first one vs shooting the rear, a typical RP issue. A bit tight, too - no? However, it's an interesting catch and not represented well (or at all?) on RP. I'd resubmit but make one specific change - I looked at the histogram and it's a bit dark and missing some highlights. Brighten it up - that may be one of the bigger "Poor aesthetic quality" issues. Railroad related issues are not the problem - it's a rather vague all encompassing rejection statement.

Second - works for everyone here - I really like it. Maybe some selective noise reduction to satisfy the screener, or simply appeal with the reasons for the appearance of noise. Do the screners ever read the appeals? I wonder often.

Last - backlit - well, it actually is. Go back and shoot it if you can. If you can't you could appeal and say it more about the record then the aesthetics but that's an uphill battle.

/Mitch
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Old 11-08-2015, 11:25 AM   #6
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Paranoia? Not really. Disappointed? Yes. Frustrated? Definitely.
Thanks for the comments. These days I find that I come onto this site for the forum. The vast majority of the pictures do nothing for me. The ones I like are the ones that have bent or even broken the rules and for me, and why I rail sometimes when pictures get rejected, that is the problem with RP. The rules. They cause resentment amongst contributors because they are so arbitrarily applied. There are certain days in the week when a picture of mine will get on. There are other days of the week when even a Mike Danneman style image of mine, not that there are many, would never get on. If the rules are there for a reason then my cry , and the war that I am fighting and losing every battle, is that they be applied consistently by all. There are not because each screener has his/her own vision, and if that is true then it makes the fact that there are rules an anachronisim.
This is my point.
Oh and Mitch. I won't be going back to the site of the last picture for a while. It's 4000 miles away and I'm not due to return til next September. Can you do it for me??????
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Old 11-08-2015, 03:17 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Mgoldman View Post
Last - backlit - well, it actually is. Go back and shoot it if you can. If you can't you could appeal and say it more about the record then the aesthetics but that's an uphill battle.

/Mitch
Even if Dave did not live 4000 miles away it would be difficult to get a "sunlight on the nose" reshoot since that particular piece of equipment is pointing pretty much due north in its present location. I have also tried to get a shot of it on here with the same result. I did get one shot on from its previous location but it also was rejected initially for being "nose-coupled" I managed to successfully appeal by explaining that (at the time) it didn't seem likely that it would ever be "nose-uncoupled" and that a couple of people who saw a shot of the loco coupled ahead of it messaged me saying words to the effect of "that's cool but I'd like to see a shot of that TEE equipment coupled behind it".

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Old 11-08-2015, 04:41 PM   #8
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Even if Dave did not live 4000 miles away it would be difficult to get a "light on the nose" reshoot since that particular piece of equipment is pointing pretty much due north in its present location.

No, not difficult at all. It's a static subject. I could easily light it with a couple of WL X3200 monolights at full power, using parabolic reflectors to even out the light (and maybe gels depending on ambient.) Off-camera fill flash on trains is entirely possible. I've done it.

Two more solutions:

1. Shoot on a heavy overcast day or (better yet) falling snow or rain. This would totally negate the directionality of the light as it would be evenly dispersed. This would only enhance the melancholy feel of the image! A bright sunny day just won't create the right mood for a shot of broken & abandoned equipment like this.

2. Night. Camera on tripod, manual focus & manual exposure. Set shutter for ~10s. With strong flashlight, use "light painting" technique to light it how you want it. This would be quite effective here.


Bottom line is a photographer should be able to come up with several different ways to create an image rather than just one obvious one. Each of the three ways I listed above will create a different feel, and really, this shot is all about feel. (As are most good photos.)


Kent in SD

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Old 11-08-2015, 09:25 PM   #9
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In Dave's defense and not discounting anything you wrote above, I'll offer this: Coming from across the pond and with a jam-packed itinerary waiting for suitable inclement weather might not have been an option, as would packing in (or locally sourcing in a small Northern Ontario town) any WL X3200 monolights and parabolic reflectors. In addition, that's not a neighborhood you'd want to be hanging around after dark. Remember here in Canada we do not have the option of concealed (or otherwise) carrying of handguns - and standing around with a 12-gauge would be sure to attract the unwanted attention of the local constabulary. Actually even standing around with a few thousand bucks worth of camera equipment would probably result in detainment and have them looking for whatever nuthouse you might have escaped from. I guess what I intended to say is that given his circumstances at the time he did what he could, even if it didn't follow the RP mold. Hopefully next September the stars may align better, if the stuff is still there as there have been rumors it may be scrapped. Oh and Dave, if you DO go back for a reshoot next year you might want to move that trash can out of the scene. Even though it might add to the abandoned and melancholy look it's just an ugly color! Just make sure there's no dead body in it - you wouldn't want to be leaving any fingerprints around!
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Old 11-08-2015, 09:41 PM   #10
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In addition, that's not a neighborhood you'd want to be hanging around after dark. Remember here in Canada we do not have the option of concealed (or otherwise) carrying of handguns - and standing around with a 12-gauge would be sure to attract the unwanted attention of the local constabulary. Actually even standing around with a few thousand bucks worth of camera equipment would probably result in detainment and have them looking for whatever nuthouse you might have escaped from.

Living relatively close to Canada (about six hours from Winnipeg), I've been there a number of times. Mostly I go to far North wilderness areas (Churchill, Inuvik) but also Vancouver/Victoria, Calgary, and have been to Toronto a couple of times. I was under the impression that since no one is allowed to have guns there, everything was perfectly safe. What I was getting at is there are always a number of ways to take a shot. It was some cool subject matter.


As for defending Dave--no need for that. I'm a fan of both him and his Quixotic quest! He's RPnet's equivalent of Charlie Brown, Lucy, and kicking the football. Every time Dave thinks he has posted a winner, the screener yanks it away at the last second, leaving poor Dave flat on his back. Does he quit? No!, (not yet.) Gotta admire his pluck!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=055wFyO6gag


Kent in SD

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Old 11-08-2015, 10:18 PM   #11
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I would appeal number 1, it's a great photo.

For number 3:

Quote:
oming from across the pond and with a jam-packed itinerary waiting for suitable inclement weather might not have been an option,
I feel your pain. Couple years ago I went to MA for a weekend, and it turned out cloudy all weekend.
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Old 11-08-2015, 10:55 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noct Foamer View Post
I was under the impression that since no one is allowed to have guns there, everything was perfectly safe.
So the government would want you to think!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noct Foamer View Post
As for defending Dave--no need for that. I'm a fan of both him and his Quixotic quest! He's RPnet's equivalent of Charlie Brown, Lucy, and kicking the football. Every time Dave thinks he has posted a winner, the screener yanks it away at the last second, leaving poor Dave flat on his back. Does he quit? No, not yet. Gotta admire his pluck!
Indeed!
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Old 11-08-2015, 11:20 PM   #13
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My problem with the trip was nothing happened. Hardly any action and I drove from North Bay to Fargo and back taking in Green Bay and the whole of Wisconsin and Minnesota. Like going to visit Spike in Needles. though I did do that in June and got a great shot which is not part of RP. Who would have believed that!! All I can bring with me is my D4, 28-70, 80-200 and a 2x convertor. Weight still matters with airlines. Added to that the problem of my daughter loving the products of Bath and Body Works and I have a really heavy, and smelly, suitcase on my return. Is North Bay that bad? I'll be going there from now on, once a year, as my partners daughter has just moved there. Can't say I liked it on my first visit in 1966 and I only changed trains then. Had taken a train from Montreal to North Bay and then caught a sleeper to Timmins. Just like the old forties movies. Wonderful. Now they have a fairly new station and no trains run to it. The dispatcher at Ottowa Railways was a good guy. Told me where I could find a train moving. Don't think that will make it either as it was a cloudy day. The garbage bucket was out of bounds. The gates were closed and I had to shoot over a fence. They really look after their stuff there as there was a steam loco on a plinth very close by which had a lot of graffiti and also had a huge trash can by the cowcatcher. Luckily it was snowing so made the shot picturesque!!
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Old 11-08-2015, 11:40 PM   #14
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North Bay itself is really not that bad a place, just that location seems to be one of the ones that draws in the lowlifes. When I was there last there was no fence so I was able to walk right up to the equipment and shoot from wherever I wanted. Problem was that the sunny ends were just boring and all of the "nose" shots that I could come up with was a bunch of into-the-sun shots which obviously were not RP-suitable. We were on a tour of the North Bay shops, had taken the train up and were being bused around. They stopped for an hour or so for people to visit the museum but we only spent a short time in there as we had been there several times previously (plus their locomotive simulator was no longer in service) so we spent the rest of the time out photographing the derelicts in the wastelands between the museum and the OVR Yard.
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Old 11-09-2015, 07:09 AM   #15
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My problem with the trip was nothing happened. Hardly any action and I drove from North Bay to Fargo and back taking in Green Bay and the whole of Wisconsin and Minnesota.
Next time, come about two hours further south on I-29. I guarantee I can make things happen, and can find the trains. I know the dispatchers and crews. And, we won't be limited to daylight hours.


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Old 11-11-2015, 03:37 PM   #16
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Photo #1 is a nice human interest shot and it certainly is rail related. B&W emphasizes the "back in time" look. I'd try again and hope for a screener that isn't an idiot this time.

#2 is really nice. Ditto on try again and hope you don't get another idiot screener.

#3 has already vanished, so no comment there.

I pretty much dropped off RP 5 years ago and only check in every now and then when I have a spare moment or two. I'm not impressed with the current level of submissions that are being accepted. There is some really good material, but 95% is boringly conventional, or worse.

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Old 11-11-2015, 04:08 PM   #17
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I pretty much agree with Michael's opinons on these images. On the first one, I just don't see the reason for the rejection. The shot appears to be technically fine. I might have cropped it a little more loosely, but I also don't know what you may have been trying to crop OUT of the frame, to maintain the "back-in-the-day" look. If I were screening, I would have accepted it.

On the second one, in my opinion, the mood overrides any minor flaw that the original screener might have seen in the shot. I personally don't see the noise issue. I think the image is much more interesting that the typical, featureless wedges that we see every day.

As to whether or not you should appeal any of these, I would consider how many appeals you might have filed in the past. While that should not have to be the primary consideration, reality is that it should always be a concern. History seems to show that contributors who appeal a lot, tend to lose their appeal privileges, particularly if their appeals have not been largely successful. If I had to appeal one, I would probably pick the first one. The PAQ rejection does not seem to make a lot of sense. When we regularly see ugly cabs of dismantled locomotives and crappy, endless aerials of wrecks, there should be room for a well-focused, well-exposed, reasonably composed image of a legacy locomotive and crew, regardless of the aspect from which it was shot.

Purely my 2 Pesos.
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Old 11-11-2015, 06:51 PM   #18
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On #2, change your name to Mike Danneman! Maybe that will work.

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Old 11-11-2015, 07:33 PM   #19
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I've already appealed on number 2.It was rejected. Too much grain. Well there isn't. What they can see is bits of chaff and weeds flying through the air. I was almost knocked off my feet by the wind taking the shot and the muck that was flying about got everywhere, and that's what's in the shot. The screener though, safe in his ivory tower knows naught of the seasons and sees grain. I think I shot at 800 so there shouldn't be grain anyway. Best wishes Mike.....sorry Dave
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Old 11-11-2015, 08:07 PM   #20
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Maybe it's just my monitor, or I need new glasses, but I see a lot of heavy grain and strange magenta and green artifacts. Very visible on the plow, the gray sky, and especially strange color artifacts to the left of the locomotive.

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Old 11-23-2015, 06:39 PM   #21
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Time to eat humble pie and say that this site ain't that bad. A PCA (third) for one of my pictures. My flabber has never been more gasted!! thanks to anyone who voted for me.
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