Old 08-01-2009, 10:12 PM   #1
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Default Derailment PEQ rejections

Just looking for some feedback on these, what could i do to differently? Is it the lighting that is killing them? Before anyone jumps on me for tresspassing ill state that i had full permission to shoot these, i was riding in the cab when the derailment happened.
http://www.railpictures.net/viewreje...d=715502&key=0
http://www.railpictures.net/viewreje...d=715159&key=0
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Old 08-01-2009, 11:57 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by nikos1 View Post
Before anyone jumps on me for tresspassing ill state that i had full permission to shoot these, i was riding in the cab when the derailment happened.
http://www.railpictures.net/viewreje...d=715502&key=0
http://www.railpictures.net/viewreje...d=715159&key=0

Did you explain that to the screener when you submitted?

I honestly think the head on shot looks better, and would look even better in B/W with the contrast up a few notches.
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Old 08-02-2009, 03:31 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by EMTRailfan View Post
would look even better in B/W with the contrast up a few notches.
I'll second the B/W idea.

I doubt the overcast lighting is the problem. This kind of shot would be tough to shoot on a sunny day due to all the harsh shadows that would appear underneath the car. Play around with the contrast and try a B/W.

As stated, make sure to explain in the 'comments to screeners' section that you in fact had permission to be there.
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Old 08-02-2009, 05:36 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nikos1 View Post
Just looking for some feedback on these, what could i do to differently? Is it the lighting that is killing them? Before anyone jumps on me for tresspassing ill state that i had full permission to shoot these, i was riding in the cab when the derailment happened.
http://www.railpictures.net/viewreje...d=715502&key=0
http://www.railpictures.net/viewreje...d=715159&key=0
So the engineer let you take control of driving the train, but then you found out the hard way that trying to couple up to a cut of cars at 15mph was a bad idea?

Only joking, but nice shots! I would've accepted them.

I think the issue is definitely the fact you were on railroad property. As others said, just explain it to the screeners.

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Old 08-02-2009, 12:47 PM   #5
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No spikes, bad ties, no wonder the rail turned.
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Old 08-02-2009, 04:02 PM   #6
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Whether you had permission to be there or not, the fact that both of these shots look like you were just about underneath (if not actually underneath) a rail car that's barely still on the rail is the reason they were rejected. This is not the sort of thing we want to encourage amongst our viewership.
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Old 08-02-2009, 05:08 PM   #7
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And now you know....the REST of the story.
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Old 08-02-2009, 05:23 PM   #8
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Well i guess permission or not i cant win if im on railroad property i guess. But still thanks for the explanation. Just to clarify i was not under the cars in either shot. I can somewhat see the issue with the second shot but on the first one i would not have been in danger even if it fell.
I submitted those two because i thought they were the most interesting, but would either of these have a chance then since they were taken from a safer angle?
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/sho...spx?id=1694342
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/sho...spx?id=1694333
Or any of these for that matter.
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/arc...d=47295&Page=1
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Old 08-02-2009, 07:11 PM   #9
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Nikos,

I don't think you're understanding Chris's reasoning. The fact that you had permission and it was totally safe is not the issue. Someone copying your shot and putting themselves in a dangerous situation is the issue.

There are plenty of young photographers on RP who learn by copying what they see. Let's say they see your shot, and in the future happen across a derailment before the authorities arrive. They know they won't get permission onto railroad property when officials arrive on scene, so they sneak in for a close-up shot right as the load shifts...

It's the same reason RP tries to avoid shots from the gauge at railroad crossings or looking through short tunnels if a curve isn't obvious. Hopefully you understand better now.

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Old 08-02-2009, 11:39 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by cblaz View Post
Nikos,

I don't think you're understanding Chris's reasoning. The fact that you had permission and it was totally safe is not the issue. Someone copying your shot and putting themselves in a dangerous situation is the issue.

There are plenty of young photographers on RP who learn by copying what they see. Let's say they see your shot, and in the future happen across a derailment before the authorities arrive. They know they won't get permission onto railroad property when officials arrive on scene, so they sneak in for a close-up shot right as the load shifts...

It's the same reason RP tries to avoid shots from the gauge at railroad crossings or looking through short tunnels if a curve isn't obvious. Hopefully you understand better now.

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To build on this, I can't believe that they let you that close to the action! What you think and what actually IS a safe distance are most likely two different distances.
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Old 08-02-2009, 11:41 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by nikos1 View Post
Well i guess permission or not i cant win if im on railroad property i guess.
That is nonsense! There are plenty of pictures posted here that are on R.R. property where the photographer had permission, employee or otherwise.
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Old 08-03-2009, 01:59 AM   #12
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I guess I have a little bit different take on accident/derailment shots and it probably puts me out of the mainstream. In just the 18 months since, I started posting on RP, I've been unfortunate enough to be trackside for two incidents. Both were at well-respected tourist railroads. Both could have been serious, but in the end, no metal was bent and no one was hurt. In one case, a derailment occurred at a remote switch that had been the site of a fatal wreck in the past. In the other case, two trains ended up nose to nose on the same track. In both cases, the railroaders detected things going wrong early on and the situations were resolved quickly. I did take some photos of both events....mostly so that I'll remember what happened some day when I'm old and feeble. None of those shots will see the light of RP.

Why? Easy. This is a site that celebrates railroading. I want to show the railroads and their people at their best. As one who shoots primarily the classic equipment, I do get to meet the railroaders. In fact, I make it a point to meet them. I enjoy talking with them and learning from them. I often get e-mails from them when they see themselves in my pictures. Amazingly, many of them don't have pictures of themselves doing what they love. If they enjoy the fruits of what I do, I find that very motivating. If shots on RP also generate interest in the lines they work for, that's even better. It's my goal to be at least a (very) small part of the preservation movement.....again, showing these railroads and people at their best.

We all know that accidents are most often caused by human errors. When something happens, it probably had something to do with what an operator or maintainer did or failed to do. These people are professionals. They love what they do, they're good at it and they care. But everybody, even the best, can have a bad day. In the case of the two situations I described above, I'm sure the folks involved felt terrible about the incidents and I'm sure that whatever mistakes might have been made won't happen again. When I looked at the pictures on my computer, I asked myself one simple question. If you were one of these railroaders, would you think it considerate to post pictures of their bad day in such a public forum? It took less than a New York second for the answer. HECK NO! I don't need views at someone else's expense. These are people I admire and respect. It also wouldn't be right for my shot of somebody's embarrassing moment to possibly overshadow a Screener's Choice or an artful shot somebody worked hard to get....and I've seen it happen....recently.

So, while I may start shooting more trackside bikinis or yards full of stored locomotives, one thing you won't see from me is wreck pictures. Speaking ONLY for myself, I classify wrecks/accidents PEQ.
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Old 08-03-2009, 02:39 AM   #13
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Kevin,
That is a valid opinion and i guess thats a good enough reason not to post it. I do know all the guys that work this shortline, and i shouldve thought about that first before posting it, even though they probably wont mind that much. Ill just let these go as far as RP is concerned as its not what this site wants and i guess in someways a violation of good taste in some eyes to post it. Doesnt rule out future derailment shots though, though im not hoping to shoot too many more.
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Old 08-03-2009, 03:08 AM   #14
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Hi Nikos,

Please know that I am not condemning anyone for posting derailment/accident pictures. Everyone has to follow their own conscience. I was just posting an alternative viewpoint and as I said, I may be well out of the mainstream.
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Old 08-03-2009, 04:27 AM   #15
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Kevin, what about a shot that is artistic and de-emphasizes the mistake-ness or the wreck-ness of such a scene? Regrettably I am unable to find the shot I have in mind, in either my comments or favorites set, but it is a strong wide angle, vertical, I think, with a spring in the foreground and some other parts of sorts and a hopper car in the out of focus background. Oh well, could not find it.
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Old 08-03-2009, 04:32 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Kilroy View Post
Whether you had permission to be there or not, the fact that both of these shots look like you were just about underneath (if not actually underneath) a rail car that's barely still on the rail is the reason they were rejected. This is not the sort of thing we want to encourage amongst our viewership.
I was thinking before I saw this post, that, I wouldn't want to be anywhere near there if that "thread" broke, I can't believe they would let you even get that close, unless of course you work for them
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Old 08-03-2009, 01:11 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by JRMDC View Post
Kevin, what about a shot that is artistic and de-emphasizes the mistake-ness or the wreck-ness of such a scene? Regrettably I am unable to find the shot I have in mind, in either my comments or favorites set, but it is a strong wide angle, vertical, I think, with a spring in the foreground and some other parts of sorts and a hopper car in the out of focus background. Oh well, could not find it.
Hi J,

I think it is a discretion call. If the picture just shows an artistic scattering/arrangement of parts and contained nothing that would give away the date or nature of the wreck, it's probably absolutely fine. My personal concern about posting wreck shots is more related to the relationship that we as rail photographers have with the railway people. I'd prefer that when they see us trackside, they view us as serious photographers....artists or documenters of history....and friends....not papparazzi looking to take advantage of their misfortune.
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Old 08-03-2009, 05:11 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Kilroy View Post
Whether you had permission to be there or not, the fact that both of these shots look like you were just about underneath (if not actually underneath) a rail car that's barely still on the rail is the reason they were rejected. This is not the sort of thing we want to encourage amongst our viewership.
This is currently the second top shot of the last 24....

Image © Steve Carter
PhotoID: 292232
Photograph © Steve Carter


While someone suggests that a remote unit was used to catch this shot, the question is valid. The photographer does not tell us how he got this shot and without that understanding, a younger viewer could be encouraged to do something stupid.

Also, I recall a few videos on RV where various photographers leave their camera between the tracks for a crossing train. Some railfans not knowing this might e encouraged to do somethign really stupid and lay down between the tracks to get the shot.
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