Old 08-25-2012, 06:45 AM   #1
sd9
Senior Member
 
sd9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 799
Default just curious

Based on the Remarks & Notes on this photo, isn't this getting into a grey area according to the new FRA rules?
Crew members may use railroad-supplied multi-functional devices that include a camera for authorized business purposes as specified by the railroad in writing, and only after being approved by the FRA. An engineer is banned from using such a device when the train is in motion. The railroad-supplied device must be turned off immediately after use.

Image © Norfolk Southern Corp
PhotoID: 407123
Photograph © Norfolk Southern Corp
sd9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2012, 10:24 AM   #2
Joe the Photog
Senior Member
 
Joe the Photog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Columbia, SC
Posts: 7,905
Default

I'm guessing Casey isn't the egineer.
__________________
Joe the Photog Dot Com
Joe the Photog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2012, 05:46 PM   #3
JimThias
Senior Member
 
JimThias's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 9,838
Default

Quote:
Crew members may use railroad-supplied multi-functional devices that include a camera for authorized business purposes as specified by the railroad in writing, and only after being approved by the FRA.
I'm guessing NS made sure this was covered. After all, his photo can be considered for "authorized business purposes."
__________________
.
Rhymes with slice, rice and mice, and probably should be spelled like "Tice."

This pretty much sums it up: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Thias
JimThias is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2012, 05:50 PM   #4
conrail1990
Senior Member
 
conrail1990's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Delaware
Posts: 204
Default

Not sure sure if I would consider Casey as part of the train crew.
__________________
Evan Schilling
My Photos on RP.
My Photos for sale
conrail1990 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2012, 09:20 PM   #5
sd9
Senior Member
 
sd9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 799
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by conrail1990 View Post
Not sure sure if I would consider Casey as part of the train crew.
whomever boards that train becomes part of the crew
sd9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2012, 09:57 PM   #6
nssd70
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 25
Default

NS stated on their Facebook page that this photo was not taken by a the engineer or conductor.

Doug
nssd70 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2012, 11:44 PM   #7
nikos1
Senior Member
 
nikos1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,777
Default

Yep, they should have put the same note on the RP pic. Casey was not running.
__________________


Wedge shots of blue HLCX SD60's http://www.railpictures.net/showphotos.php?userid=7861

More wedge shots of blue HLCX SD60's http://nikos1.rrpicturearchives.net/

Video wedge shots of blue HLCX SD60's
http://youtube.com/profile?user=nikosjk1
nikos1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2012, 12:32 AM   #8
conrail1990
Senior Member
 
conrail1990's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Delaware
Posts: 204
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sd9 View Post
whomever boards that train becomes part of the crew
So passengers would be considered crew? I thought the rule applied to people who worked on the train. Not the ones hired to take pictures.
__________________
Evan Schilling
My Photos on RP.
My Photos for sale
conrail1990 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2012, 01:45 AM   #9
Dennis A. Livesey
Senior Member
 
Dennis A. Livesey's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,986
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sd9 View Post
whomever boards that train becomes part of the crew
What rule book is that in? NORAC? GCOR? NS? CSX? BNSF?

Just curious since I am learning.
__________________
Dennis

I Foam Therefore I Am.

My pix on RailPics:

I am on Flickr as well:

"Dennis is such a God, he could do that with a camera obscura and some homemade acetate." Holloran Grade

"To me it looks drawn in in Paintshop. It looks like a puddle of orange on the sky." SFO777
Dennis A. Livesey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2012, 04:02 AM   #10
adickson
Senior Member
 
adickson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Central NC
Posts: 236
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sd9 View Post
whomever boards that train becomes part of the crew
That's certainly interesting. I took a little foster child up awhile back. I wasn't aware that he became part of the crew. Don't know that I could have found steel toe boots in his size to get him in compliance. I doubt he would have comprehended the job briefing... but he had a blast! I told him he was my brakeman, wait till I tell him he really was part of the crew! LOL

As for the main topic. Who cares? I am positive NS covered all the bases. Great picture, I am glad Casey shared it. Little jealous but I will get over it.
__________________
Anthony Dickson
www.vidivides.com
www.flickr.com/photos/adickson87/
adickson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2012, 04:04 AM   #11
WMHeilman
Senior Member
 
WMHeilman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Napoleon, OH
Posts: 486
Default

Meh, it's just another backlit shot...
WMHeilman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2012, 04:04 AM   #12
JimThias
Senior Member
 
JimThias's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 9,838
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by conrail1990 View Post
So passengers would be considered crew? I thought the rule applied to people who worked on the train. Not the ones hired to take pictures.
Casey is employed by NS, no?

He is on the train. Hence, does that not make him a member of the crew?

Being a member of the "crew" doesn't necessarily mean he can drive or conduct the train. People who work on passenger trains serving food and are employed by the railroad are members of the crew.

Therefore, by that logic, Casey being aboard the train AND working (hired and paid by NS to take corporate photos), he can certainly be referred to as a member of the crew.
__________________
.
Rhymes with slice, rice and mice, and probably should be spelled like "Tice."

This pretty much sums it up: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Thias
JimThias is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2012, 04:32 AM   #13
adickson
Senior Member
 
adickson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Central NC
Posts: 236
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimThias View Post
Casey is employed by NS, no?

He is on the train. Hence, does that not make him a member of the crew?

Being a member of the "crew" doesn't necessarily mean he can drive or conduct the train. People who work on passenger trains serving food and are employed by the railroad are members of the crew.

Therefore, by that logic, Casey being aboard the train AND working (hired and paid by NS to take corporate photos), he can certainly be referred to as a member of the crew.
Touché! However, his statement was "whomever" boards the train. Much too general to be considered factual. Otherwise my little friend and the hobo that jumped on last week will be requesting compensation for their ride! We will also need to schedule a QP class as I am sure they have not completed the course or passed annual exams! haha!! AND that hobo will be thrilled to know that he was not lying to the officer when he told him he worked for the RR and belonged on the train!!! LOL! hilarious...
__________________
Anthony Dickson
www.vidivides.com
www.flickr.com/photos/adickson87/
adickson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2012, 05:36 AM   #14
CSX1702
Senior Member
 
CSX1702's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
Posts: 1,268
Default

Part of the crew or not, he's the paid photographer of the company. I'm sure it's okay for him to be taking pictures.
__________________
Derek

Flickr

Out Of Place Album
CSX1702 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2012, 06:36 AM   #15
Holloran Grade
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: In the California Republic
Posts: 2,774
Talking

I just love RR forums.

It is the blind leading the blind, and pontificating to the stupid and ignorant.

I would argue an SLR camera is not one of the devices prohibited by the rules, otherwise no one would be able to use their pac sets, or any other type of two way radio.

Last edited by Holloran Grade; 08-26-2012 at 06:39 AM.
Holloran Grade is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2012, 12:58 PM   #16
JRMDC
Senior Member
 
JRMDC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 11,202
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Holloran Grade View Post
I just love RR forums.

It is the blind leading the blind, and pontificating to the stupid and ignorant.
Quote:
I would argue an SLR camera is not one of the devices prohibited by the rules, otherwise no one would be able to use their pac sets, or any other type of two way radio.
There is something, well, I don't think ironic, but something, about the juxtaposition of these two statements in the same post. Very funny!

The answer may be in the rules, but I don't feel like taking the time to understand how the law defines "personal electronic devices".

http://www.fra.dot.gov/rrs/FRAUseofEDChart.pdf

http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text....1.1.15.3.11.1
__________________
My RP pix are here.
My Flickr pix are here.

My commentaries on rail pictures are in my blog.

RP Photo Albums:
Cabooses
Engine Details
Farm and Train
Plumes!
Railroad Details
Signal Details
Switchstand Shots
JRMDC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2012, 03:09 PM   #17
loomus78
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 92
Default

Not sure if it means anything, but perhaps the train is not "in motion?" Regardless, I'm sure being as Casey was not a member of the operating crew and I'm guessing not even trained on this stretch of the system in order to operate a train. NS and he covered all the bases.
__________________
Jon Wright
Martinsburg, WV
CSX Cumberland Sub
Milepost 105.00
loomus78 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2012, 03:42 PM   #18
Holloran Grade
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: In the California Republic
Posts: 2,774
Exclamation Disclaimer for the newbies and lurkers, I am being scarcastic, however there is much

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRMDC View Post
................The answer may be in the rules, but I don't feel like taking the time to understand how the law defines "personal electronic devices"...........
Exactly, so just be like the other rivet counting sheep and take a WAG about what the rule, or rules really are......

Don't consult someone who deals with these rules everyday at work, and don't consult the CFR, or the GCOR (which are all available online).

Na, just pull something out of of thin air and post on a RR board it like it is in fact true.
Holloran Grade is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2012, 04:10 PM   #19
oltmannd
Senior Member
 
oltmannd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 361
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimThias View Post
Casey is employed by NS, no?

He is on the train. Hence, does that not make him a member of the crew?

Being a member of the "crew" doesn't necessarily mean he can drive or conduct the train. People who work on passenger trains serving food and are employed by the railroad are members of the crew.

Therefore, by that logic, Casey being aboard the train AND working (hired and paid by NS to take corporate photos), he can certainly be referred to as a member of the crew.
No. He is a non-agreement employee. He is not part of the train crew. He is not covered by hours of service, etc. as long as he doesn't perform "service", that is performing the duty of an engineer, conductor or trainman. He is free to ride for 24 hours and take all the pictures he likes. He DOES have to obey safety laws and company policy while on board.
oltmannd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2012, 06:56 PM   #20
JimThias
Senior Member
 
JimThias's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 9,838
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by oltmannd View Post
No. He is a non-agreement employee.
Oh, I misunderstood his position of employment. I thought he was employed by NS. My bad then.

Quote:
Originally Posted by loomus78 View Post
NS and he covered all the bases.
I believe this is all that matters in this case.
__________________
.
Rhymes with slice, rice and mice, and probably should be spelled like "Tice."

This pretty much sums it up: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Thias
JimThias is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2012, 07:07 PM   #21
JRMDC
Senior Member
 
JRMDC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 11,202
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimThias View Post
Oh, I misunderstood his position of employment. I thought he was employed by NS. My bad then.
I don't know (so I guess I just feel like responding!) but I believe "agreement employee" refers to being part of the BLE (no, not Bessemer and Lake Erie)! or other union that has a labor agreement with NS. I understand that Casey is in fact employed by NS.
__________________
My RP pix are here.
My Flickr pix are here.

My commentaries on rail pictures are in my blog.

RP Photo Albums:
Cabooses
Engine Details
Farm and Train
Plumes!
Railroad Details
Signal Details
Switchstand Shots
JRMDC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2012, 07:31 PM   #22
JimThias
Senior Member
 
JimThias's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 9,838
Default

Well then, I think "crew" is being defined too narrowly for my tastes, then. To me, anyone who is aboard a vessel (ship, plane, train) and performing a task for the company who owns said vessel, is a part of the "crew." But perhaps I'm painting with too broad of a brush.
__________________
.
Rhymes with slice, rice and mice, and probably should be spelled like "Tice."

This pretty much sums it up: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Thias
JimThias is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2012, 07:49 PM   #23
jnohallman
Senior Member
 
jnohallman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,527
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimThias View Post
Well then, I think "crew" is being defined too narrowly for my tastes, then. To me, anyone who is aboard a vessel (ship, plane, train) and performing a task for the company who owns said vessel, is a part of the "crew." But perhaps I'm painting with too broad of a brush.
I think in this case it's a matter of making the distinction between "crew" and "staff". The "crew" in this case would be the engineer and conductor assigned to the train who have responsibility for its operation. Casey is in this case an NS "staff" member who was allowed/instructed to ride in the cab and take photos for company purposes, but not assigned any responsibility for train operations, and therefore not part of the train's "crew".

Jon
__________________
"Everybody talks about the weather, but nobody does anything about it." - Mark Twain

Click here to see my photos on RP.net!

Do not, under any circumstances whatsoever, click here. Don't even think about it. I'm warning you!
jnohallman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2012, 08:06 PM   #24
JimThias
Senior Member
 
JimThias's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 9,838
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jnohallman View Post
I think in this case it's a matter of making the distinction between "crew" and "staff". The "crew" in this case would be the engineer and conductor assigned to the train who have responsibility for its operation. Casey is in this case an NS "staff" member who was allowed/instructed to ride in the cab and take photos for company purposes, but not assigned any responsibility for train operations, and therefore not part of the train's "crew".
Well, I guess by that definition he is free and clear of the FRA's restrictions when it comes to using railroad-supplied multi-functional devices that include a camera.
__________________
.
Rhymes with slice, rice and mice, and probably should be spelled like "Tice."

This pretty much sums it up: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Thias
JimThias is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2012, 12:58 AM   #25
chris crook
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Zanesville Ohio
Posts: 246
Default

I am sure Norfolk Southern Corp. is falling all over itself to post "illegal" photographs.
__________________
contrarian

Flickr: Armco_block
chris crook is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 11:45 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.