High Sun in October?

transit383 · 10-23-2007, 01:42 AM

The following was taken at 10AM yesterday. I think its more of the train going into direct sunlight rather than high sun...

http://www.railpictures.net/viewreje...&key=436915416

Opinions?

trainboysd40 · 10-23-2007, 01:44 AM

Yup, you hit the nail on the head - The entire side of the train is in shadow save for indentations like the doors. Sorry.

ottergoose · 10-23-2007, 01:47 AM

Yep - no light on the side of the train. That doesn't have anything to do with the sun being high though... pesky generic rejections

JRMDC · 10-23-2007, 02:02 AM

Unrelated to the reason given, but I find that, since the bridge on the right is well obscured with foliage, the right side doesn't have much to offer to balance the left side, and the nose is centered. So the composition doesn't do anything for me.

Freericks · 10-23-2007, 02:31 AM

Nice shot... but I wouldn't have tried with it. Look at the trucks on the MUs. When there's zero light on them, I don't try. I know that they are looking for that.

Chicago Railfan · 10-23-2007, 03:21 AM

No light on the side would classify for backlit, but for some reason, this picture does kind of have that look. TO ME anyway. Also, the cropping is poor. Cool crossing though!

sd9 · 10-25-2007, 01:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by transit383

The following was taken at 10AM yesterday. I think its more of the train going into direct sunlight rather than high sun...

http://www.railpictures.net/viewreje...&key=436915416

Opinions?

I got one those too...They need to change the rejection to "just high sun"..
and loose the "a common problem in the summer months" it's October

Joe the Photog · 10-25-2007, 03:22 PM

The screeners don't know when the shot was taken. And arguing about the reason for the reject is kinda weird when it's obvioius the side is in shadow. No one is sayng to appeal the shot that I see.

Joe

DelmonteX · 10-25-2007, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe the Photog

...arguing about the reason for the reject is kinda weird when it's obvioius the side is in shadow. No one is sayng to appeal the shot that I see.

Joe

I think the reasons for so much acrimony with the rejects, is that people are trying to learn. It's almost like your math teacher telling you that, no 2+2 isn't 5 and the reason is because you're wearing a blue shirt on a Tuesday.

I've learned a lot posting here and my work has improved, but it would have been a lot easier if I hadn't wasted time and energy trying to figure out what was wrong with my photo and how to do it better, when the reason for the rejection was clearly not appropriate.

Another reason, is that it appears new contributors to the site don't really understand the purpose and don't take the guidelines seriously. Of course they also, like most of us, are viewing their work from a very biased position.

Just my 2 bytes worth.

bigbassloyd · 10-25-2007, 04:55 PM

Just start with these three simple rules. After a few rejections, I took this advice to heart..

1. If you are standing track side facing the train that's approaching, and you can smack your shadow in the head with your right hand without going across your body, you're standing in the right place.

2. If your shadow is shorter than you, the sun may be too high to properly light the scene.

3. I do not advocate violence against shadows.

Once you've learned how to follow those rules, then you can start learning ways to break them.

have fun, and good luck!

Loyd L.

Crusader · 10-25-2007, 08:24 PM

Had a very similar shot rejected awhile back...it was taken at end of day, but the locos (2 Amtrak MP15's hauling a work train) were headed straight into the sun, so the trucks were shaded. And that's a bg "don't" around here.

Here it is...

Freericks · 10-25-2007, 08:35 PM

I agree on the trucks and won't submit pictures without the trucks lit anymore, but there are, as shown here, incidents when it's a low sun and the trucks are still not lit.

This was rejected for high sun. But a picture that I took about five minutes later, a block away, was accepted. I figured the first one was rejected for light on the trucks, but the second one had the same issue (maybe the clock in the picture changed things, or maybe the fact that the trucks on the second train were so far under the body of the unit that it was clear that it wasn't high sun, I'm not sure).

http://freericks.rrpicturearchives.n...aspx?id=820032

(As an aside, yes there are zig-zags that mean I overcompressed and have to redo the scan, but that's not what it was rejected for.)

Here's the shot from five minutes later that was accepted.

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphot...193397&nseq=83

JRMDC · 10-25-2007, 08:50 PM

Were the two shots submitted at the same time? No offense, but I would have rejected both. Although I do think that older shots - these are from 1982 - get more latitude at RP. Also, the accepted shot has a prominent long shadow that suggests the sun may not be that high.

Also, on the rejected picture, due to the dark paint on the lower part of the passenger cars, the lower sides look really bad and dark, like horrible high sun!

Freericks · 10-25-2007, 09:16 PM

Janusz,

They were submitted a day or so apart, as I recall. The time of day of course was late afternoon (you'll note the clock). I think that the angle of the sun was just not going to come at the trucks. (It was August.)

While I am deeply offended and hurt and dispirited,

I will also admit that I probably wouldn't have submitted either of them now that I know RP.net better than I did at the time. I would have looked at the trucks and moved on.

Oddly enough, the rejected shot was of an odd movement (the WWII era cars show this), while the accepted shot was of an every day local run.

Charles

Ween · 10-25-2007, 11:17 PM

Quote:

so the trucks were shaded. And that's a bg "don't" around here.

But only when it comes to High Sun. If it's direct nose light you're talking about, it's more of a Bad Angle issue because the side of the train is going to be shaded. If you have the sun running directly down the tracks, it's best to close the angle between yourself and the subject (i.e. more of a nose-on shot)...

Crusader · 10-26-2007, 01:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ween

But only when it comes to High Sun. If it's direct nose light you're talking about, it's more of a Bad Angle issue because the side of the train is going to be shaded. If you have the sun running directly down the tracks, it's best to close the angle between yourself and the subject (i.e. more of a nose-on shot)...

Now you've got me thinking I should resubmit my shot...because looking at it, I am on the sunny side of the train. Hmm.

Carl Becker · 10-26-2007, 02:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freericks

I agree on the trucks and won't submit pictures without the trucks lit anymore, but there are, as shown here, incidents when it's a low sun and the trucks are still not lit.

Very good point. Pickyness concerning the darkness of trucks has increased, and I have seen instances where the dark trucks are the only cause for rejection, even when there are no shadows at all indicating high sun on the front of the locomotive. But, regardless of high sun, dark trucks and sides of trains are many times distracting, sometimes even when the shot is a telemashed face-on "wedge". I really find shots depressing that are taken face-on because the side of the train and/or trucks is all dark plus the lighting is barely enough and the locomotives are all dirty and unattractive. Yet, this type of shot seems to get by a bit more than even a wider angle shot that has shadows only on the very tops of the trucks, something that sometimes is a bit dissapointing.

My latest high sun reject was this one, which was accepted within minutes on appeal:

I could see that there were some shadows on the trucks, but the shadow of the brakeman on the right is a dead giveaway that it's a morning shot without high sunlighting. The sun wasn't at the greatest angle (pretty face-on) which was why I took the shot with the locomotive on the connector track, and ended up working out fine.

The other big thing I see that commonly causes high sun rejects is a large shadow on the nose. Yet, this sometimes happens during cases where the sun is at a ~90 degree angle to the nose and isn't actually high. A good case for wide-angle to show the trucks are perfectly lit.

An example of mine I could find, also accepted on appeal for high sun:

Overall, once I really got use to what was high sun and what wasn't, I haven't had too many problems getting non-high sun shots accepted even when they showed some of these "symptoms". If anything, appealing typically works when you have something to point out that proves there's no high sun there.

FWIW, probably the most high-sun shots I have on here, accepted because of the rarity of the movement, and, ironically, two of my most popular shots:

~Carl Becker

JimThias · 10-26-2007, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbassloyd

Just start with these three simple rules. After a few rejections, I took this advice to heart..

1. If you are standing track side facing the train that's approaching, and you can smack your shadow in the head with your right hand without going across your body, you're standing in the right place.

2. If your shadow is shorter than you, the sun may be too high to properly light the scene.

3. I do not advocate violence against shadows.

Good one, Loyd.

MichaelJ · 10-27-2007, 05:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ween

But only when it comes to High Sun. If it's direct nose light you're talking about, it's more of a Bad Angle issue because the side of the train is going to be shaded. If you have the sun running directly down the tracks, it's best to close the angle between yourself and the subject (i.e. more of a nose-on shot)...

You're right on the money there! Neutral light = front on with lots of zoom.