Old 05-28-2009, 06:18 PM   #1
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Default New Caterpillar PR43 locomotive

The 1st PR43 Caterpillar powered locomotive is in the Peoria area for testing by the NS. It is in the NS color scheme. The road number is 4001.
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Old 05-28-2009, 09:18 PM   #2
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I hope it proves it's self better than previous CAT powered locomotives........
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Old 05-28-2009, 09:21 PM   #3
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I hope it proves it's self better than previous CAT powered locomotives........
What was wrong with them? Why would some remove the EMD prime mover and install CAT power if there were a lot of problems with them?
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Old 05-28-2009, 09:55 PM   #4
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Lets take this in several steps to answer your question. 1) I never said that anything was wrong with them, just it has not been a popular use of their diesel engine. 2) They probably give a great warranty on the engine itself as an incentive to install their diesel engines. 3) If it was an impressive power unit, it would be in wide spread service.
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Old 05-28-2009, 10:08 PM   #5
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I hope it proves it's self better than previous CAT powered locomotives........
I figured that since you wrote this you knew of problems with these particular engines. No need to get so defensive.
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Old 05-28-2009, 10:29 PM   #6
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What was wrong with them? Why would some remove the EMD prime mover and install CAT power if there were a lot of problems with them?
If you are rebuilding a unit, and you want reliability and modern emissions control, you may very well want a new engine so you remove the EMD. At that point you choose from all the competitors, including those who only make engines and not also locomotives. And then, as was said, you look at the deal and the guarantee and so forth.

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Originally Posted by TheRoadForeman View Post
I hope it proves it's self better than previous CAT powered locomotives........
I also took this to mean that, at least in previous RR applications, there were problems with CAT engines.

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Lets take this in several steps to answer your question. 1) I never said that anything was wrong with them, just it has not been a popular use of their diesel engine. 2) They probably give a great warranty on the engine itself as an incentive to install their diesel engines. 3) If it was an impressive power unit, it would be in wide spread service.
1) as I say above, you sort of said that
2) true
3) it doesn't get wide spread until it does From tiny acorns, mighty oak trees grow.

I am reminded of the history of GE locomotives. As I understand it, the early generations (pre-dash-7) of GEs were of rather poor quality, notably less reliable than the EMDs of the time. GE continued to get orders because the big RRs really wanted a competitor to EMD to become established. Eventually their patience was rewarded as GE got its act together. (And EMD had a hiccup with the SD-50, which also helped GE gain acceptance.)
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Old 05-28-2009, 10:35 PM   #7
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I figured that since you wrote this you knew of problems with these particular engines. No need to get so defensive.

I didn't, I answered your questions.
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Old 05-28-2009, 10:40 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by JRMDC View Post
If you are rebuilding a unit, and you want reliability and modern emissions control, you may very well want a new engine so you remove the EMD. At that point you choose from all the competitors, including those who only make engines and not also locomotives. And then, as was said, you look at the deal and the guarantee and so forth.



I also took this to mean that, at least in previous RR applications, there were problems with CAT engines.



1) as I say above, you sort of said that
2) true
3) it doesn't get wide spread until it does From tiny acorns, mighty oak trees grow.

I am reminded of the history of GE locomotives. As I understand it, the early generations (pre-dash-7) of GEs were of rather poor quality, notably less reliable than the EMDs of the time. GE continued to get orders because the big RRs really wanted a competitor to EMD to become established. Eventually their patience was rewarded as GE got its act together. (And EMD had a hiccup with the SD-50, which also helped GE gain acceptance.)
With GE, Janusz, the problem was not the diesel engine, it was the electrical technology and the engineering behind it. This does not need to turn into some big debate, look at what my original post says and live with it. Facts are facts, CAT powered engines are not popular with the masses, that answers your "you sort of said that" quote. It's just not popular (why?, I don't really know but, I have an idea). I was just stating that maybe CAT would be more successful this time, nothing more and nothing less.

P.S. EMD offers an emission friendly upgrade.....

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Old 05-28-2009, 10:42 PM   #9
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Below is a link to a discussion of CAT power from another forum where UP is experimenting with a re-poweredSD40-2. The following might be of nterest:


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A rumor about one of the prior problems with the CATs was the manufacturer's supposed desire not to alienate their existing dealers / distributors. The railroads may have been dissatisfied getting spare parts / service via the established dealer network who tended to cater to their established customers (who generally operated smaller diesels).
http://www.altamontpress.com/discuss...7383#msg-27383
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Old 05-28-2009, 10:59 PM   #10
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With GE, Janusz, the problem was not the diesel engine, it was the electrical technology and the engineering behind it.
I was not being so specific. My intent was to give an example of why someone might adopt a technology that still has problems. The example didn't have to refer to engines specifically and it didn't, it referred to locomotives.

Quote:
This does not need to turn into some big debate, look at what my original post says and live with it. Facts are facts, CAT powered engines are not popular with the masses, that answers your "you sort of said that" quote. It's just not popular (why?, I don't really know but, I have an idea). I was just stating that maybe CAT would be more successful this time, nothing more and nothing less.
The issue in the "debate" is actually just your unclear writing. You said "proves itself better than previous CAT powered locomotives" which means that a previous round of CAT engines didn't prove themselves in RR applications. Later you said "I never said that there was anything wrong with them." Those two things don't go together very well.

No big deal, just a forum discussion. I do think you are a bit defensive here, but again no big deal. No need to write perfectly, but in this case the consequence is that two people don't receive the message you intended to convey.
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Old 05-28-2009, 11:35 PM   #11
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Thats fine with the "specifics" quote, I was just stating the problem with the early GE's. Plus, since I started talking about the diesel engine aspect, I only wanted to clarify the early GE problems, I was not trying to be condescending in any way, shape or form during this whole topic so far.
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Old 05-31-2009, 12:11 PM   #12
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The problem with CATs is having them at the right shop to work on them With EMD or GE most shops have someone that can repair them and the parts are there. CAT likes to bring in their own guys to work on them and I think I remember trouble in shops having outsiders coming in.
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Old 06-02-2009, 01:27 AM   #13
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Is there a picture of it someone can link to the thread-sounds very interesting!
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Old 06-04-2009, 02:49 AM   #14
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I gotta say, looks pretty nice in NS paint!
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