Old 06-25-2008, 12:28 AM   #1
millerm
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Default Rejected again!

What's it take to get a picture accepted?? I think I've gotten every possible rejection out there on all sorts of pictures...and I see others that look like they have the same problem but were accepted?! I finally got a picture of something other than the usual passing-by and it's still rejected!

Here's my picture:
http://www.railpictures.net/viewreje...d=540711&key=0

Here's a picture that I don't think is that great, it doesn't have any sky and it's just another picture of trains reflecting in water!
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphot...240488&nseq=29

What gives? How can I control the weather? And I can't help it if the schedules run the trains when the sun is at a bad angle, maybe Amtrak can change their times for me? As for the angle, maybe I can go through the park with a chain saw and cut down all the trees in my way, fill in the civil war trenches, and rip out the sign posts!

Last edited by millerm; 06-25-2008 at 12:38 AM.
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Old 06-25-2008, 12:38 AM   #2
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Hmm you cant control the schedules, go get a dispatching job . The first shot is blurry and dark plus its cloudy. I am sure there are sunny days in Virginia go out and shoot one of those days. And IMO why would you diss another shot just becasue yours wasnt accepted?
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Old 06-25-2008, 12:40 AM   #3
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No, I'm pointing out the same flaws in another that was accepted. I just don't understand that.

You say it's blurry. That's called Depth of Field. It draws your eye to the point where you're intended to look.
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Old 06-25-2008, 12:40 AM   #4
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Where you trying to Pan some?
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Old 06-25-2008, 12:42 AM   #5
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It's sort of required when a train is moving at 60+mph to pan.
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Old 06-25-2008, 12:45 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walter S
Hmm you cant control the schedules, go get a dispatching job . The first shot is blurry and dark plus its cloudy. I am sure there are sunny days in Virginia go out and shoot one of those days. And IMO why would you diss another shot just becasue yours wasnt accepted?

I must agree on the blurry... Good motive, but a bad day. Also, it's not that rare for the markers to be on, maybe if you found a good day, and the markers happened to be on.

Also, try a little longer of a shutter speed, for a wee more pan-blur.

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Old 06-25-2008, 12:47 AM   #7
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Sorry, WHERE is it blurry? I just don't see that!

It may not be rare but that's the first time I or my father have seen it. I've seen them pulling out of a yard without any lights but never with both headlight and marker lights on.
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Old 06-25-2008, 12:47 AM   #8
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well, I'm not a fan of either pic really but the NS shot has much better light, the sky in back is a lil darker and the reflection in the water ads interest. Your shot is pretty well composed but I think it would have worked alot better had you been back aways. The sky back ground is too light and the shot is a lil blurry. But, then again, just my opinion. You had rite idea. Can you reshoot??
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Old 06-25-2008, 12:48 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by millerm
It's sort of required when a train is moving at 60+mph to pan.

No not really, lower your F stop and raise your shutter speed and ever your ISO if you have to. The below photo is of a train coming at me at 80MPH and I didnt pan.

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Old 06-25-2008, 12:52 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walter S
The below photo is of a train coming at me at 80MPH and I didnt pan.
Although it looks like you may be farther away. I have either a station or a park to be in, so I'm standing about 10 feet away from the tracks. I'll agree that if there's the right conditions you can get away without panning but when the angle is so sharp -- I have some pictures of the Auto Train just before this one that's blurred at 1/250 of a second.

Last edited by millerm; 06-25-2008 at 12:54 AM.
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Old 06-25-2008, 12:54 AM   #11
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[quote=millerm]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Walter S
The below photo is of a train coming at me at 80MPH and I didnt pan.

QUOTE]

Although it looks like you may be farther away. I have either a station or a park to be in, so I'm standing about 10 feet away from the tracks. I'll agree that if there's the right conditions you can get away without panning but when the angle is so sharp -- I have some pictures of the Auto Train just before this one I submitted that's blurred at 1/250 of a second.


Image © Steven M. Welch
PhotoID: 233314
Photograph © Steven M. Welch


This was shot from about 15 feet from the tracks, and I was being distracted by a pesky Sheriff.
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Old 06-25-2008, 12:57 AM   #12
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That's why I was in the park. I didn't have to worry about anyone bothering me. We've been told to get out of the station (although it's not a station, more of a platform with missing windows and minimal roof) before while waiting for pictures.
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Old 06-25-2008, 12:59 AM   #13
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This is too easy. Your shot is sub par. The cropping is bad and the composition is lacking. The train is too close and we sky too much sky. If you're trying for a pan shot, great, but actually get a pan shot. Otehrwise, it looks blurry like this one.

The Composition/Balance reject stems from a couple of things. First, the train is too low in the frame. That leaves way too much ugly, bloring, grey sky. Then, you cut the train off barely more than a car behind the power. Show more of the scene esp. on cloudy days. Otherwise, it's a glorified roster shot of common power on a cloudy day. If you can't get what you need at this spot, go to a different spot or don't try to submitt the shot to RP.

And calling out a photog on this site does nothing to elevate you or your photograph. Your photograph should either stand or not stand on it's own.


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Old 06-25-2008, 01:04 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe the Photog
This is too easy. Your shot is sub par. The cropping is bad and the composition is lacking. The train is too close and we sky too much sky. If you're trying for a pan shot, great, but actually get a pan shot. Otehrwise, it looks blurry like this one.

The Composition/Balance reject stems from a couple of things. First, the train is too low in the frame. That leaves way too much ugly, bloring, grey sky. Then, you cut the train off barely more than a car behind the power. Show more of the scene esp. on cloudy days. Otherwise, it's a glorified roster shot of common power on a cloudy day. If you can't get what you need at this spot, go to a different spot or don't try to submitt the shot to RP.

And calling out a photog on this site does nothing to elevate you or your photograph. Your photograph should either stand or not stand on it's own.


Joe

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Old 06-25-2008, 01:08 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe the Photog
This is too easy. Your shot is sub par. The cropping is bad and the composition is lacking. The train is too close and we sky too much sky. If you're trying for a pan shot, great, but actually get a pan shot. Otehrwise, it looks blurry like this one.
Ok, I still donít get whatís blurry. The train? The ground? The background? Everything?

I intended to get a small depth of field to draw the viewer to the front of the lead engine but maybe thatís not acceptable on this site -- any suggestions?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe the Photog
The Composition/Balance reject stems from a couple of things. First, the train is too low in the frame. That leaves way too much ugly, bloring, grey sky. Then, you cut the train off barely more than a car behind the power. Show more of the scene esp. on cloudy days. Otherwise, it's a glorified roster shot of common power on a cloudy day. If you can't get what you need at this spot, go to a different spot or don't try to submitt the shot to RP.
Ok, would it be better if I crop down to the back of the engines and less sky?

I cropped the way I did because this is in a park and about a foot off the left edge there are trees blocking the view, about a pixel off the bottom edge there are old rotting barriers where a road used to be.

We've been yelled at for loitering at the few other good places there are in town. (like the local passenger platform)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe the Photog
And calling out a photog on this site does nothing to elevate you or your photograph. Your photograph should either stand or not stand on it's own.
I don't mean to be complaining about other pics here but from my point of view there are a lot on here that really aren't very exciting at all.

Last edited by millerm; 06-25-2008 at 01:13 AM.
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Old 06-25-2008, 02:19 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by millerm
Ok, I still donít get whatís blurry. The train? The ground? The background? Everything?

I intended to get a small depth of field to draw the viewer to the front of the lead engine but maybe thatís not acceptable on this site -- any suggestions?
The ground is, as well as the 2nd engine back, this is probably related to moving the camera, if your not really trying to pan, try to keep the camera steady, and if you are wanting to pan, your probably a bit too close.

This is one I did with shallow depth, I mainly wanted the cab to main part of the shot:

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Old 06-25-2008, 02:25 AM   #17
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I agree with Joe.

Your shot is really blurry... look at the front of the locomotive... it's not even close to being sharp. Also, if you can't get less sky and more ground in that spot, look elsewhere, and for crying out loud, don't submit boring/cloudy/blurry wedgies.

Here's what I'd suggest - rip off a few of these shots from your local area. Think about why they're nice to look at, when they were taken, what settings where used, etc. Better yet, improve upon a few of these angles.

Image © George W. Hamlin
PhotoID: 220660
Photograph © George W. Hamlin


Image © David Craig
PhotoID: 209566
Photograph © David Craig


Image © A.J. Smith
PhotoID: 161579
Photograph © A.J. Smith


Image © Pete Piszczek
PhotoID: 8626
Photograph © Pete Piszczek


Image © David B Davies
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Image © David B Davies
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Old 06-25-2008, 03:29 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by millerm
What's it take to get a picture accepted??
Uhhh...a quality image?

Quote:
What gives? How can I control the weather? And I can't help it if the schedules run the trains when the sun is at a bad angle, maybe Amtrak can change their times for me?
Yes, you can not control the weather. But you CAN control when and where you choose to shoot. If you want to get a shot of a train on a cloudy day, fine, that's your prerogative. But if you want said picture to be accepted here, it must fall into the list of standards that RP has set for THEIR site. No one is owed anything by RP. If your shot isn't up to RP quality, why do you believe it should be accepted here?




Quote:
Originally Posted by millerm
I intended to get a small depth of field to draw the viewer to the front of the lead engine but maybe thatís not acceptable on this site --
That is such flawed logic. So you think what you're trying to attempt is not acceptable here because they rejected YOUR shot? There are other issues with your shot outside of what you were trying to accomplish. So, yes, small DOF *is* acceptable here as long as the rest of the image meets RP's standards.

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Old 06-25-2008, 07:05 AM   #19
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I have tried a pan shot before was completely unusable. This shot is blurry its pretty easy to see even on my crappy 1999 desktop monitor. The comp/balance reject I think stems from the dead space on the right but with that angle i dont know how you would fix it. Try getting better light and having the sun at your back this is backlit even if there was any sun. As far as drawing in the viewer the light needs to be better and the background/foreground etc needs to be blurred instead of the whole image.

Heres 2 of my favorite pan shots as an example.

Image © Chris Starnes
PhotoID: 236903
Photograph © Chris Starnes


Image © HTTR
PhotoID: 231411
Photograph © HTTR

Last edited by Watain; 06-25-2008 at 07:07 AM. Reason: Blah
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Old 06-25-2008, 11:56 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimThias
But if you want said picture to be accepted here, it must fall into the list of standards that RP has set for THEIR site
Ok, so whereís the hit-list of criteria they test for? Iíve read the guidelines and I can be absolutely certain something is right and it never is.




Quote:
Originally Posted by JimThias
That is such flawed logic. So you think what you're trying to attempt is not acceptable here because they rejected YOUR shot? There are other issues with your shot outside of what you were trying to accomplish. So, yes, small DOF *is* acceptable here as long as the rest of the image meets RP's standards.
My basis for this is all the comments saying itís blurry, even after I state why. My only conclusion is that the entire frame must be crystal clear.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Watain
This shot is blurry its pretty easy to see even on my crappy 1999 desktop monitor
Hmm, the front of the lead engine looks crystal clear to me Ė on all our high-resolution monitors on all 3 computers. Maybe time for a new monitor? Itís probably a CRT if itís that old and that would explain why it looks blurry, itís probably not designed to display that sharp a picture to begin with. Try looking at a monitor thatís newer, preferably at least 1280x768 resolution. Also, since my job is computers, I know most people donít run their screen at its highest resolution which almost always causes the illusion of blurring when it scales the graphics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Watain
The comp/balance reject I think stems from the dead space on the right but with that angle i dont know how you would fix it.
Dead space to the right? Do you mean top/left? If thereís any less space to the right Iíll be cutting off the front of the train!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Watain
Try getting better light and having the sun at your back this is backlit even if there was any sun. As far as drawing in the viewer the light needs to be better and the background/foreground etc needs to be blurred instead of the whole image.
Um, the sun WAS behind me. This was around 4:30 with sun just above the trees behind me and I was shooting toward the Northeast.
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Old 06-25-2008, 12:05 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by millerm
Hmm, the front of the lead engine looks crystal clear to me Ė on all our high-resolution monitors on all 3 computers. Maybe time for a new monitor? Itís probably a CRT if itís that old and that would explain why it looks blurry, itís probably not designed to display that sharp a picture to begin with. Try looking at a monitor thatís newer, preferably at least 1280x768 resolution. Also, since my job is computers, I know most people donít run their screen at its highest resolution which almost always causes the illusion of blurring when it scales the graphics.
Ok, so now we should all calibrate our monitors based on your sub-par Amtrak photo?

Look, you were shooting at f5.6 and 1/125 shutter speed. If it was sunny (which it obviously isn't), this image would be WAY overexposed. Secondly, that shutter speed is way too slow for a speeding train. The nose looks like it has motion blur, just as the rest of the people in this thread have pointed out. HOW you can't see that is a mystery.

Aside from that, as the rejection states, the cropping is very poor...and it has NOTHING to do with having to use a wide angle lens.
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Old 06-25-2008, 12:15 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimThias
Ok, so now we should all calibrate our monitors based on your sub-par Amtrak photo?

Look, you were shooting at f5.6 and 1/125 shutter speed. If it was sunny (which it obviously isn't), this image would be WAY overexposed. Secondly, that shutter speed is way too slow for a speeding train. The nose looks like it has motion blur, just as the rest of the people in this thread have pointed out. HOW you can't see that is a mystery.

Aside from that, as the rejection states, the cropping is very poor...and it has NOTHING to do with having to use a wide angle lens.
All I've heard is "blurry". Ok, I'll look for motion blur - maybe it is. All through my photography class "blurry" meant the focus was out - not the case here, I was focused on what I intended to.
edit: Ok, I'll buy the motion blur because that aspect could have been better. So that's one thing I can work on - Thank you for calling it Motion Blur because I wasn't looking for that particular aspect from the other posts. I still stand by my other points though.

I was using virtual ISO200 with a polarizing filter so if I up the shutter speed it'll under-expose. It wasn't really sunny but there was sun behind me. I can up the ISO to 400 or 800 but what shutter speed should I aim for?

Right now it's full sun, no clouds and I can point my camera outside and at ISO200, f/5.6, 1/125 it's 1/2 stop overexposed according to the camera's light meter. If I point a little lower it's perfectly exposed. Keep in mind, I cropped this pic before posting it, otherwise if I really framed it this way it would be metered for sky instead of the loco.

Last edited by millerm; 06-25-2008 at 12:20 PM.
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Old 06-25-2008, 01:34 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by millerm
I was using virtual ISO200 with a polarizing filter so if I up the shutter speed it'll under-expose. It wasn't really sunny but there was sun behind me. I can up the ISO to 400 or 800 but what shutter speed should I aim for?

Right now it's full sun, no clouds and I can point my camera outside and at ISO200, f/5.6, 1/125 it's 1/2 stop overexposed according to the camera's light meter. If I point a little lower it's perfectly exposed. Keep in mind, I cropped this pic before posting it, otherwise if I really framed it this way it would be metered for sky instead of the loco.
Hmmm...

First, I would avoid going to ISO 400 or 800, as you may end up with another issue (noise). Stick with ISO 100 and 200.

The 125th @ f/5.6 seems a bit low at ISO 200, even with the polarizer. If the sun is behind you, I'd take the polarizer off. I don't think it will add anything and it is taking away shutter speed and aperture options that will get you a sharper picture.

My advice, for what it's worth, is to get down to basics. Don't try any special or artsy effects.....those require practice and experience. Pick a good day, find a spot with decent scenery and shoot before 10AM or after 3PM with your shadow pointing at the subject. Metering off a black, white or silver locomotive is probably asking for problems. If you're shooting digital, meter off something more neutral....the grass or the track ballast, and fire a test exposure or two before the train comes. Look at those images and adjust your exposure as needed.

Finally, have patience. Success with anything worthwhile doesn't usually come overnight.
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Old 06-25-2008, 04:02 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by millerm
I don't mean to be complaining about other pics here but from my point of view there are a lot on here that really aren't very exciting at all.
Well isn't this the pot calling the kettle black...like Joe said, your photo should stand on it's own or not stand at all. It's pretty low to have to put down other photographers in order to try to make a name for yourself (and will NOT earn you any respect here).

As has been said, your Amtrak shot honestly is sub-par. Don't try to defend it - just accept that it's a failure and learn from your mistakes. Getting too emotionally attached to your photos and refusing any sort of criticism on your photography means you're digging yourself into a hole - a hole in which your photography will never get any better, and all you'll do is join the Railpictures.Net Haters Club.

Just lose the mentality, go out tomorrow, and try again. Keep doing this, correcting problems from the previous outing, and you'll be amazed at how quickly you improve.
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Old 06-25-2008, 04:29 PM   #25
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Quote:
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Well isn't this the pot calling the kettle black...like Joe said, your photo should stand on it's own or not stand at all. It's pretty low to have to put down other photographers in order to try to make a name for yourself (and will NOT earn you any respect here).

As has been said, your Amtrak shot honestly is sub-par. Don't try to defend it - just accept that it's a failure and learn from your mistakes. Getting too emotionally attached to your photos and refusing any sort of criticism on your photography means you're digging yourself into a hole - a hole in which your photography will never get any better, and all you'll do is join the Railpictures.Net Haters Club.

Just lose the mentality, go out tomorrow, and try again. Keep doing this, correcting problems from the previous outing, and you'll be amazed at how quickly you improve.
Well it's very hard to learn anything when 99% of the comments don't suggest any way to do better next time and then just say my work is crap! And maybe everyone else here has time to try pics all day, every day but I actually have a real life with real things to do and can't cut out early to try and catch the train, I have to take pics when time and weather permits -- usually on the weekend. Then again, I suppose now someone will say I shouldn't even be trying if I'm not putting this first...and besides, if you discourage me enough I won't even bother taking pictures at all so it will be all that much easier for everyone else in the forums.

And just because someone gets something in doesn't mean it's o-so-wonderfull, I'm sure I'm not the only one who looks through the recent posts and wonders why the heck anyone would want to take whatever shot. And 99% of the pictures are engines, engines, engines. There's very little room for creativity. Most of the shots I see here break all the rules I learned all through my photography classes.

I've got some wonderfull pictures of the track through the station, including some interesting sunsets but I don't even see a way to post them because there's no engine number to put! Who cares though, I suppose RailPictures.net wouldn't want it anyway because it's just track, not a train.

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