Old 01-29-2012, 10:52 PM   #26
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But this can be applied to EVERY facet of life. I don't know why photography would be exclusive to this factor.

I think this has more to do with paranoia than anything.

If the photographer you know is complaining about not being able to sell his work for as much as he once did, perhaps he was charging too much to begin with. If the quality of his work demands the higher price, then he'll eventually get it.

If I were selling my photos at a train show for X amount of dollars, I couldn't really care less if another photographer was selling his for a fraction of my price. If we were selling the exact same product, then there might be an issue. But art is not based that way. If people want to pay less for lower quality work by an unknown artist, then so be it.
Nonetheless, the effect is not neutral, not just paranoia. A lower quality good sold at a lower price can and will take away sales from a higher quality good at a higher price, selling to those who didn't care that much about the quality but didn't have a low cost option before. The photographer wasn't charging too much before, he just faces a new source of competition now. He will lose market share. In our system, it is fine that he loses it, he has no moral claim to that business, but lose it he will and it isn't paranoia to worry about it happening.
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Old 01-30-2012, 12:10 AM   #27
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Well I'm open to suggestions of course

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Those are two of the framed photos I"ll be selling.

I certainly don't want to under price my goods; since that is lost profit, but I also don't want to over price my goods and have nothing sell.

Although one thing this has made me think about talking this out.

People at shows who buy two day tickets will often come back on day 2 to see if there is a deal to be had on items that didn't sell.

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Old 01-30-2012, 01:01 AM   #28
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Nonetheless, the effect is not neutral, not just paranoia. A lower quality good sold at a lower price can and will take away sales from a higher quality good at a higher price, selling to those who didn't care that much about the quality but didn't have a low cost option before. The photographer wasn't charging too much before, he just faces a new source of competition now. He will lose market share. In our system, it is fine that he loses it, he has no moral claim to that business, but lose it he will and it isn't paranoia to worry about it happening.
If that's the case, the buyer wasn't willing to spend more in the first place, and the seller of the "higher quality" good was charging too much. We aren't talking about everyday commodities here that generally have a set market price, this is about art which is completely subjective and open to interpretation when it comes to the value of a particular piece. A "name" artist shouldn't complain that a no-name artist is selling their work for $10, while the name artist is making $10K a print. The same thing applies to photography, or anything else that involves selling one's talent.

If you're worried about a less talented and less known photographer undercutting you, then you're either charging too much to begin with (likely) or you need to put out more unique and higher quality work.
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Old 01-30-2012, 01:19 AM   #29
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If that's the case, the buyer wasn't willing to spend more in the first place, and the seller of the "higher quality" good was charging too much. We aren't talking about everyday commodities here that generally have a set market price, this is about art which is completely subjective and open to interpretation when it comes to the value of a particular piece. A "name" artist shouldn't complain that a no-name artist is selling their work for $10, while the name artist is making $10K a print. The same thing applies to photography, or anything else that involves selling one's talent.

If you're worried about a less talented and less known photographer undercutting you, then you're either charging too much to begin with (likely) or you need to put out more unique and higher quality work.
Well, it is a professional predisposition, I suppose, much like your predisposition towards level shots, but in my world of economic analysis a tradeoff is a tradeoff and demand and supply both affect the outcome. The price will be different if there is another product available with a different but not that different quality-price profile.

So this "charging too much to begin with" is simply not the issue, because it implies that the same price should hold before and after the undercutter appears. It should not and does not. There is no one price that anything "should" be sold at, rather that depends on what else is being sold and for how much (as well as how much it costs to make, and how much the other things cost to make). If something new appears, the price of the old thing changes in response.
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Old 01-30-2012, 01:25 AM   #30
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I stand by my belief that what an unknown photographer charges for a photo will have zero impact on what "name" photographers get for their work.

If I decided to start selling my train photos for $10 a piece, it would have ZERO effect on what David Plowden gets for his photos.
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Old 01-30-2012, 01:37 AM   #31
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I stand by my belief that what an unknown photographer charges for a photo will have zero impact on what "name" photographers get for their work.

If I decided to start selling my train photos for $10 a piece, it would have ZERO effect on what David Plowden gets for his photos.
Your belief is with respect to an uninteresting case. The people coming out with cheap photos are, indeed, not affecting the Plowdens of the world. But they are affecting the world of professional photography and making it harder for full-time pros, especially lower-end, to stay in business, unless they choose a specialty that is less affected by the amateur presence.
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Old 01-30-2012, 03:52 AM   #32
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The price you get depends on how good your marketing skills are by making your buyer believe that your product is vastly worth more than the asking price, therefore the buyer feels he is getting a bargain at any price you set.

The buyer may feel he made a good investment, where he may believe that he may also find another buyer who would be willing to pay more. And the price just keeps going up. There's another one born every minute.

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Old 01-30-2012, 11:46 AM   #33
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Your belief is with respect to an uninteresting case. The people coming out with cheap photos are, indeed, not affecting the Plowdens of the world. But they are affecting the world of professional photography and making it harder for full-time pros, especially lower-end, to stay in business, unless they choose a specialty that is less affected by the amateur presence.
So in other words, there is a professional "threshold" that one crosses when they are no longer affected by the bottom-feeders. Define that threshold.
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Old 01-30-2012, 11:54 AM   #34
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Your belief is with respect to an uninteresting case. The people coming out with cheap photos are, indeed, not affecting the Plowdens of the world. But they are affecting the world of professional photography and making it harder for full-time pros, especially lower-end, to stay in business, unless they choose a specialty that is less affected by the amateur presence.
Isn't this saying, in effect, that a commodity will typically sell on price, while differentiated products (such as a Plowden photo) can have different attributes, including price?

So, all we've got to do is make a 'name' for ourselves, and we shouldn't have to worry about being underpriced by amateurs (and, unforntunately, it's not as easy as simply purchasing an internet domain name...)

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Old 01-30-2012, 12:27 PM   #35
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Isn't this saying, in effect, that a commodity will typically sell on price, while differentiated products (such as a Plowden photo) can have different attributes, including price?

So, all we've got to do is make a 'name' for ourselves, and we shouldn't have to worry about being underpriced by amateurs (and, unforntunately, it's not as easy as simply purchasing an internet domain name...)

George
Yes; the rest of this sentence is text padding.
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Old 01-30-2012, 02:16 PM   #36
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And we must not forget about this one, (see link below) I don't think this guy is worrying about being under priced by amateurs
http://newsfeed.time.com/2011/11/11/...-in-the-world/
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Old 02-04-2012, 05:10 PM   #37
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Well so far it seems that 60 dollars for a framed photo is not going over so well. I'm hoping it's 2 dayers though or people browsing.

On the plus side; I've had a lot of people compliment the work.
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Old 02-04-2012, 08:54 PM   #38
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Time to slash your prices!
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Old 02-05-2012, 12:48 AM   #39
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Fire Sale on Sunday...
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Old 02-05-2012, 01:13 AM   #40
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I made enough by the end of the day to cover expenses and a few dollars profit.

Hopefully tomorrow goes better.
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Old 02-05-2012, 03:42 AM   #41
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Talking The conundrum at rail events.

What I have noticed at rail events is that the vast majority of the attendees do not appear to have a great amount of disposable income.

Some apparently cannot even afford soap and hot water on a regular basis.

Another observation is that some of the vendors have an unrealistic expectation of what their wares are worth and you will see them time and time again at shows trying to sell the same overpriced stuff.

And so the conundrum - how to price your goods accordingly and hook up with the folks who are not on unemployment and/or living with their mom.


It can be worse - go to a Comic Con or a gaming convention.

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Old 02-05-2012, 06:16 AM   #42
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Worked a couple shows with my dad many years ago. Most days we basically payed for our table or walked away with enough extra for lunch at McDonald's. I am really not sure how people make money at those things.
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Old 02-05-2012, 05:03 PM   #43
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I would never buy a picture for $60! At a train show?! People there have so many options of things to buy for much cheaper than that, including memorabilia,slides, posters, models etc I think $60 is wayyyyy too much. At tops I would go $25 for one. Know your market.
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I personally have had a problem with those trying to tell us to turn railroad photography into an "art form." It's fine for them to do so, I welcome it in fact, but what I do have a problem with is that the practitioners of the more "arty" shots, I have found, tend to look down their nose's at others who are shooting more "mundane" shots.
Railroad photography is what you make of it, but one way is not "better" than another, IMHO. Unless you have a pole right thought the nose of the engine! -SG
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Old 02-05-2012, 05:10 PM   #44
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I would never buy a picture for $60! At a train show?! People there have so many options of things to buy for much cheaper than that, including memorabilia,slides, posters, models etc I think $60 is wayyyyy too much. At tops I would go $25 for one. Know your market.
Don't tell Cinderpath that....

I only charged 60 for 3 pictures; which were kind of like the "prestige" pictures that I took off my wall and while I don't mind selling, I don't mind keeping either.

I think if I do this again, i should focus more on prints, calendars and posters, items I can sell at a lower cost.
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Old 02-05-2012, 06:13 PM   #45
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A good frame and a mating job will cost almost $80 for an 11x17.
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Old 02-05-2012, 06:55 PM   #46
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Old 02-05-2012, 07:19 PM   #47
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^ those photos are a little soft
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Old 02-05-2012, 08:34 PM   #48
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^ those photos are a little soft
Not to mention an odd flare on that CSX shot.

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Old 02-05-2012, 08:46 PM   #49
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I made enough by the end of the day to cover expenses and a few dollars profit.

Hopefully tomorrow goes better.
Good! Hope that Sunday went well; a good learning experience.

George
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Old 02-06-2012, 03:33 AM   #50
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I made about 40 dollars total.

Things I learned:

I need a sign to brand myself. A lot of people didn't know if I was re-selling other people's work (which we all know happens) or if I was a booth employee, etc.

Framed posters don't move unless they are marked down to unacceptable levels. I sold one for 25 bucks, but after costs I think I take home 2 dollars, but the frame was damaged from my air duct warping it so no biggie.

Calendars are popular and annoying. No one wants to pay 25-35 for a calendar, but I can't get the cost down to sell them lower and make any profit.

Maybe I need to look into photo books.

Now I just wait and see if anyone buys online.

Although I did get tons of compliments.
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