Old 07-28-2013, 03:34 PM   #76
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Ok, but keep in mind that this website willl never accept something like that, it's too dark. You need to take pictures like that when it's light outside, not at dusk. Those lighting conditions do not lend themselves to getting a shot on here.

Also, why f6.3 and 1/160? Did you not read the suggestions to this point? That lens, you should have it permanently fused at F8, it's just not good below that. And as far as shutter speed goes, it's not just motion you have to worry about, simple hand movement can affect focus and sharpness.

I cant get all the settings out of your photo, no exif information. Post all the info so we can review it. If you are still trying to use ISO 100, i'm gonna be mad.

Also, how many times did you read the book, and did it really sink in?
With that amount of light is it really a good idea to shoot at F8? Theres no way you are going to get it bright enough without cranking the ISO up, I doubt 400 would have done it, with a train moving that slow 1/160 should not give you substantial motion blur. I think he was probably just doing the best he could with the crap lighting which means using less than optimal settings. I rarely shoot F8 when its cloudy, I'll take the drop in sharpness over upping the ISO past 400.
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Old 07-28-2013, 03:59 PM   #77
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With that amount of light is it really a good idea to shoot at F8? Theres no way you are going to get it bright enough without cranking the ISO up, I doubt 400 would have done it, with a train moving that slow 1/160 should not give you substantial motion blur. I think he was probably just doing the best he could with the crap lighting which means using less than optimal settings. I rarely shoot F8 when its cloudy, I'll take the drop in sharpness over upping the ISO past 400.
My experience when I had that lens was it was pretty poor under F8. Maybe I had a bad example. His camera should be able to handle ISO400 just fine. I think ISO400 F8 and 1/400 or 1/320 would have worked fine. Maybe F7.1.
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Old 07-28-2013, 04:11 PM   #78
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Even with the crap kit lenses that I use I am able to get usable images at 5.6-6.3, the lens he's using cant be any worse. I tried downloading his image to check his ISO but he stripped the data. You're right though if that was indeed shot on ISO 100 he could have upped the F stop and shutter, I always shoot on 200 because theres no real difference between 100-200. Beyond 400 on a Rebel is dicey though.
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Old 07-28-2013, 04:42 PM   #79
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Even with the crap kit lenses that I use I am able to get usable images at 5.6-6.3, the lens he's using cant be any worse. I tried downloading his image to check his ISO but he stripped the data. You're right though if that was indeed shot on ISO 100 he could have upped the F stop and shutter, I always shoot on 200 because theres no real difference between 100-200. Beyond 400 on a Rebel is dicey though.
200, because shooting 400 gave a bit of noise which sometimes I can notice during sharpening.
With this lighting, 400 wasn't something I really wanted to use but I'm wrong as usual.
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Old 07-28-2013, 05:04 PM   #80
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For what it's worth, I think the most recent photo is very well done. Looks like it has a bit of a reddish cast to me, but nothing serious.

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Old 07-28-2013, 05:28 PM   #81
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There is nothing wrong with shooting above and below F/8 but F/8 is a good starting spot for sunny days. What kind of silly goose says a lens should be glued at F/8? Pretty useless lens...
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Old 07-28-2013, 05:58 PM   #82
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The "meow" wasn't aimed at you, Elitewolf/Kevin, it refers to some forum history that predates your arrival. Chill, Kevin!

Congrats on getting the shot on.
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Old 07-28-2013, 06:19 PM   #83
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There is nothing wrong with shooting above and below F/8
There is nothing wrong with shooting wider than F8 if your lens can handle it and not look like crap. Unfortunately his is not one I would do much shooting below F8. I stand by my statement.

Second, shooting with a smaller aperture than F8 on a digital "crop sensor" camera is inviting trouble. There is lots of info about it, and you can do your own real world tests. I have and diffraction is a real thing. On a full frame it dont creep in until about F11. It also is a function of the number of megapixels.

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but F/8 is a good starting spot for sunny days. What kind of silly goose says a lens should be glued at F/8?
Me I guess

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Pretty useless lens...
If useless means "fixed at the most useful aperture", then yes.

I would say 90+% of my mediocre collection of photos is shot at F8
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Old 07-28-2013, 08:11 PM   #84
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Troy is right, shooting with one of these cheapo lens at anything wider than f/8 is going to result in under-sharpened photos. If I was shooting trains with the lens Elitewolf135 is using, there might as well not even be an aperture dial on the camera.

Cheap lens are cheap for reason... because they are not built as well as expensive lenses. There for, they cannot take as good pictures as expensive lenses... which are expensive because they are built better. This is a fact. I don't know why for years people on this forum take that as some kind of personal attack.

Also... Elitewolf135, please stop complaining about how you can't shoot anywhere but your 'crap town' if you're just going to ignore the multiple post from multiple people showing how you can easily get to other locations without a car.

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Old 07-28-2013, 08:43 PM   #85
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How old is this kid?

There's multiple "youngins" on here, maybe they have better feet, a bike, hitchhiking ability or parents or friends willing to support their habit (hobby). Be patient and practice, you obviously have a couple servicable locations to shoot.

Heck we have a screener who is a juvenile and had to bum rides. I think he might be of driving age now though.

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Old 07-28-2013, 08:57 PM   #86
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One of my elementary school teachers taught me early on in life that if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all. In my opinion, if you don't have anything nice to say to support a young, growing photographer (who appears to have a desire to learn), you probably shouldn't say anything at all. It seems that some folks only chime in to bash this kid. He seems here to learn and better himself, and some of you have only served to discourage him. To those that have provided him valid advice and encouragement, thank you. If every time a young Soldier came to me or another NCO for advice or questions about his rifle or weapon and we treated him as such, I think we would all be in trouble. For a group of people who share a common interest and hobby...think about it.
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Old 07-28-2013, 09:02 PM   #87
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So I take it you never shoot in low light situations? Saying to only shoot at F/8 again is just silly. I have a 4/3s sensor and shoot with kit glass and I have no issue with it, are you telling me the big dogs like Canon and Nikon can't hold there own with Olympus with entry level stuff? I don't buy it.
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Old 07-28-2013, 09:03 PM   #88
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Should I just kill this thread before I continue to be made into a fool?
On second thought I'm considering just giving up on this site and throwing in the towel.
Ellitewolf

That Meow had zero to do with you.

I in fact agree 100% with JMC below that folks should not jump on here to attack a young photographer. No one out there knows what your personal circumstances are.

While you are clearly more limited with lesser equipment, the equipment you site having is not exactly garbage, so go out there and keep shooting.

F8 and be there is great advice. The bridge and that station both look like great locations.

There is some range from F8 that you can play with, just don't go too far.

The Meow was 100% about Insert Name Here attacking Troy.
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Old 07-28-2013, 09:06 PM   #89
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One of my elementary school teachers taught me early on in life that if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all. In my opinion, if you don't have anything nice to say to support a young, growing photographer (who appears to have a desire to learn), you probably shouldn't say anything at all. It seems that some folks only chime in to bash this kid. He seems here to learn and better himself, and some of you have only served to discourage him. To those that have provided him valid advice and encouragement, thank you. If every time a young Soldier came to me or another NCO for advice or questions about his rifle or weapon and we treated him as such, I think we would all be in trouble. For a group of people who share a common interest and hobby...think about it.
There has been quite a lot of good advice given by myself and others in this thread.

I dont know where you are going with this
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Old 07-28-2013, 09:07 PM   #90
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So I take it you never shoot in low light situations? Saying to only shoot at F/8 again is just silly. I have a 4/3s sensor and shoot with kit glass and I have no issue with it, are you telling me the big dogs like Canon and Nikon can't hold there own with Olympus with entry level stuff? I don't buy it.

Brent,

I probably shouldn't answer for someone else, but I think the point here is not that you can't shoot a whole range of things with an entry level DSLR and kit glass.

The point is that if you are going to get sharp images with low noise in more extreme conditions - the better the equipment you have, the more flexibility you have to try to make that happen.

When I go out with my Rebel and my 40D, I know I can do more with my 40D. I also know that if I borrow my friend's 5D and his nicer glass, I get more out of that.

Then again, I have some shots on RP that I took with an iPhone and they are sharp and have nice color.

There's a lot you can do (and you can move away from F8, yes), but as you are first learning, it's a good place to start.

CF
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Old 07-28-2013, 09:14 PM   #91
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Also... Elitewolf135, please stop complaining about how you can't shoot anywhere but your 'crap town' if you're just going to ignore the multiple post from multiple people showing how you can easily get to other locations without a car.
I'm getting out to more locations now. I'm sorry my parent has limits on where I may or may not go. When I get a vehicle next year, I can go farther obviously.

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How old is this kid?
15

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Originally Posted by JMC
One of my elementary school teachers taught me early on in life that if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all. In my opinion, if you don't have anything nice to say to support a young, growing photographer (who appears to have a desire to learn), you probably shouldn't say anything at all. It seems that some folks only chime in to bash this kid. He seems here to learn and better himself, and some of you have only served to discourage him. To those that have provided him valid advice and encouragement, thank you. If every time a young Soldier came to me or another NCO for advice or questions about his rifle or weapon and we treated him as such, I think we would all be in trouble. For a group of people who share a common interest and hobby...think about it.
I appreciate it. It's not that I whine about my town and the shots it has after I was told that I found a few decent ones, it's some of the discouragement I receive sometimes that makes me think twice before presenting something for discussion.

I know I have thin skin, and that's not a good thing (I also whine too much), but I even admitted openly that I'm a noob. At least I can accept that, and try to better myself. I'm going out on a railfan trip to Ohio for three days, I'll shoot at a base aperture of F8, adjusting as needed.
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Old 07-28-2013, 09:15 PM   #92
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I'm getting out to more locations now. I'm sorry my parent has limits on where I may or may not go. When I get a vehicle next year, I can go farther obviously.



15



I appreciate it. It's not that I whine about my town and the shots it has after I was told that I found a few decent ones, it's some of the discouragement I receive sometimes that makes me think twice before presenting something for discussion.

I know I have thin skin, and that's not a good thing, but I even admitted openly that I'm a noob. At least I can accept that, and try to better myself. I'm going out on a railfan trip to Ohio for three days, I'll shoot at a base aperture of F8, adjusting as needed.
Look at it like this, by the time you can drive, which isnt too much longer, you should have things down a little better.
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Old 07-28-2013, 09:18 PM   #93
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There has been quite a lot of good advice given by myself and others in this thread.

I dont know where you are going with this
There has been, undoubtedly. My hats off to you and those folks.

The message to the other folks is simple. Be a part of the solution, not the problem. If I still lived in the Pittsburgh area had the superb level of knowledge as most of you folks, I would mentor the kid myself. Kids like him are the future of this hobby.
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Old 07-28-2013, 09:27 PM   #94
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F8 and be there is excellent advice for a newbie. Back in the dark ages, 1998, I think, the first folks I asked for advice from told me that it was really hard to shoot slides and if you didn't know what you were doing, you'd screw things up. I wish they had done what we basically do and instead offer advice instead of patting themselves on the back because it was so hard to break in to shooting.

About the age thing, I do wish RP would do something like putting an "under 18" designation under the user name of the kids so we know what we're dealing with.
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Old 07-28-2013, 09:27 PM   #95
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There has been, undoubtedly. My hats off to you and those folks.

The message to the other folks is simple. Be a part of the solution, not the problem. If I still lived in the Pittsburgh area had the superb level of knowledge as most of you folks, I would mentor the kid myself. Kids like him are the future of this hobby.
When I hear "I live in Pittsburgh" and "I dont have anywhere to shoot", it puzzled me at first, before I realized it was a kid. For someone with mobility there has to be 10,000 places to shoot any day of the week. But now we know the whole story.
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Old 07-28-2013, 10:07 PM   #96
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It wasn't until I had spent time in Pittsburgh that I realized that getting a license at that age wasn't as commonplace as it is in smaller towns like where I grew up. I'm not an expert on the City of Pittsburgh, but I'm guessing the reliance on a public transportation network, lack of parking in some neighborhoods, and certain necessities being within walking/biking distance diminishes the necessity of a license. Definitely something I took for granted and living there opened up my eyes to that big city culture.

I assumed most of the folks on here are much older and retired with decades of railroad photography under their belt. I've gradually learned that we all are different ages and come from different walks of life, and that not one of us are "better" than the next based on any of that.
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Old 07-28-2013, 10:14 PM   #97
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So I take it you never shoot in low light situations? Saying to only shoot at F/8 again is just silly. I have a 4/3s sensor and shoot with kit glass and I have no issue with it, are you telling me the big dogs like Canon and Nikon can't hold there own with Olympus with entry level stuff? I don't buy it.
Freericks' response was pretty spot on what I was getting at.

I've gone back and tried to rework countless shots back when I was using kit lenses and later middle of the road lenses. Even if they were shot at f/8, its still hit or miss if I can get them to sharpness I want. So needless to say the shots not taken at f/8 and/or in low lighting situations are all pretty much useless.

Everybody judges their work on different criteria. It sounds like sharpness matters more to me than you, which of course is fine. But I can promise you the quality on kit Olympus lens drops off the table wider than f/8.
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Old 07-29-2013, 01:14 AM   #98
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Well, two down and plenty more to go hopefully! I have the book with me, so tomorrow and the next three days should be a blast and hopefully will include more photos!
Also I would like to thank everyone who's helping.
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Old 07-29-2013, 01:28 AM   #99
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Well, two down and plenty more to go hopefully! I have the book with me, so tomorrow and the next three days should be a blast and hopefully will include more photos!
Excellent. Good to hear how motivated you are! And remember, Brother Blue Sky!
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Old 07-29-2013, 02:32 AM   #100
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ns 1074 edgerton by Brent Kneebush, on Flickr

F/3.5 and looks plenty sharp to me. It drops off, sure but not into "OMG IT IS TOTALLY UNUSABLE!" Land


ns 5555 cinn northern by Brent Kneebush, on Flickr

F/5, I never should have shot it.


q324 bates by Brent Kneebush, on Flickr

6.3?!? I never should have left the house.

I have plenty more but I think you get the picture. I never go above ISO 200 either.
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