Old 04-01-2008, 04:18 PM   #1
travsirocz
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Default Trains Magazine.

How many here submit to any railroad magazines?

What is the correct submission ettiquette?

Do you submit agood or news worthy shot to a bunch of magazines and see who bites?

Do you perfer just one magazine over the rest?

If a magazine accepts your photo, can you or shouldn't you, still sell it to others?

What if two accept? Highest bidder?

I just would like to know more on how this works. Thanks Travis Dewitz
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Old 04-01-2008, 04:30 PM   #2
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Yes have RRI and RF . one thing they don't like is you sending the same shot to all the them. Has to be at or at least new angel or they will remember that the next time.
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Old 04-01-2008, 06:31 PM   #3
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Rule #1. Do not send the same or extremely similar photo to two media outlets concurrently. People who double-dip are generally frowned upon.

I am no expert at published material but I have read some things online written by those who work for magazines. I know TRAINS generally does not publish photos that have already been published online. Obviously, if someone can get the photo online for free, why would they pay TRAINS to look at the same image? Thats a good reason to submit some of your work online but also reserve some of it for future use.

Newsworthy photos are the way to go. If you catch something newsworthy send TRAINS an email stating exactly what you have. If they are interested they will ask to see the photos.

If it is not newsworthy, which most photos are not, then the best way of getting published is to formulate an article. If you write up a brief outline of your idea and send it to them, they will let you know if they are interested in pursuing the article further.
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Old 04-01-2008, 10:11 PM   #4
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I'm not 100% sure I agree. I've known of a few pictures that TRAINS found on this web site and published.
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Old 04-01-2008, 10:22 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freericks
I'm not 100% sure I agree. I've known of a few pictures that TRAINS found on this web site and published.
There is the one with a white cloud, sort of an inversion layer, over a yard full of taconite cars, something like that.

Ah, here it is:

Image © Dave Schauer
PhotoID: 131137
Photograph © Dave Schauer
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Old 04-01-2008, 10:45 PM   #6
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Yeah... there are quite a few photos that I've seen on this site and in Trains.
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Old 04-02-2008, 12:38 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freericks
I'm not 100% sure I agree. I've known of a few pictures that TRAINS found on this web site and published.
Exactly why I used the term 'generally'. I am aware there are always exceptions to the rules. A direct quote I still have from Kathi Kube who at the time was managing editor at TRAINS states "...we don't purchase photos that have already been published somewhere else, including online. That's not a hard-and-fast rule...". That was also 3 years ago when digital was not quite as common as it is now. Digital photography is still a new technology and media outlets are still adapting.
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Old 04-02-2008, 12:47 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PLEzero
Rule #1. Do not send the same or extremely similar photo to two media outlets concurrently. People who double-dip are generally frowned upon.
That sounds quite odd. That's like telling someone they shouldn't send out multiple resumes or portfolios to different companies.

You're trying to get your work published. Sending it to several outlets shouldn't be frowned upon. What if Trains isn't interested in publishing it and they never tell you that? Are you supposed to wait until you get a rejection email before you send it off elsewhere? And who exactly is doing the frowning?
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Old 04-02-2008, 03:41 AM   #9
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Jim,

It's not like sending out a resume. No magazine editor wants to find that the exact same photo has appeared in a rival publication. Magazine buyers don't like it either, since they feel they have paid twice to see the same image. If you do it and two magazines do use the same shot, you will find yourself on everyone's s__t list. I don't remember the details, but a few years ago the exact same article, text, photos and all appeared in two different magazines that came out at the same time. This was a serious no no!

You can send completely different shots of the same event without a problem. Also, if you send an article and photos to one magazine and after a reasonable period they have not been used, you can request their return and then send them to a second magazine. Obviously this doesn't work for breaking news shots.

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Old 04-02-2008, 05:33 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PLEzero
Exactly why I used the term 'generally'. I am aware there are always exceptions to the rules. A direct quote I still have from Kathi Kube who at the time was managing editor at TRAINS states "...we don't purchase photos that have already been published somewhere else, including online. That's not a hard-and-fast rule...". That was also 3 years ago when digital was not quite as common as it is now. Digital photography is still a new technology and media outlets are still adapting.
Seems that has changed. Since I posted my last response, I've thought of a couple more shots that appeared here first and then TRAINS. Policy must have been ammended.
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Old 04-02-2008, 01:36 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a231pacific
Jim,

It's not like sending out a resume. No magazine editor wants to find that the exact same photo has appeared in a rival publication.
I didn't imply to send one to another mag after it's been printed in one. If you send several at the same time, if anyone is interested, they are going to conact you, right? And as soon as you find out it's in one mag, if another contacts you for the same image, tell them it's already been used.

Or do these mags use your pics without contacting you first? In that case, I can see that being a problem. But I was basing my comment on a magazine contacting you to let you know they are going to use your photo. (I've had one printed, and was asked to use it, but have never blindly submitted photos before)
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Old 04-03-2008, 02:09 AM   #12
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Jim,

This isn't as much an issue with digital as it was with slides, when people would send a slide in on spec and it might or might not be used. Sending it was regarded as permission to use it. Sending two nearly identical slides to two different magazines could result in both shots running.

Now, if you send them a low res image and they get back to you, it might be OK to see if more than one magazine wanted to use it, but what happens if the editor likes the shot, reserves a space for it, calls you and you tell him "Sorry, Railfan is using it." I doubt if you would get another call after that. I still recommend sending different images to each magazine.

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Old 04-03-2008, 02:23 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a231pacific
Jim,

This isn't as much an issue with digital as it was with slides, when people would send a slide in on spec and it might or might not be used. Sending it was regarded as permission to use it. Sending two nearly identical slides to two different magazines could result in both shots running.

Now, if you send them a low res image and they get back to you, it might be OK to see if more than one magazine wanted to use it, but what happens if the editor likes the shot, reserves a space for it, calls you and you tell him "Sorry, Railfan is using it." I doubt if you would get another call after that. I still recommend sending different images to each magazine.
Gotcha. I'm just trying to figure out how all this works. I've never submitted pics, but if I ever do, I'll keep that in mind.
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Old 04-03-2008, 03:58 PM   #14
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While we're at it, how about submitting the same images to multiple WEBSITES? Is this considered a no-no, too? I've often wondered what the general "understood" procedure is.

I have a feeling that plastering your stuff all over the web is just as bad as submitting to multiple mags, but since I'm not getting PAID, I might as well share them with as many people as possible. Railfanning is still a hobby and not a full-time career for 99% of us with jobs, right?
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Old 04-03-2008, 04:59 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccaranna
While we're at it, how about submitting the same images to multiple WEBSITES? Is this considered a no-no, too? I've often wondered what the general "understood" procedure is.
Pretty much all of the shots that are accepted here end up on Flickr and RRPictureArchives.net as well. I don't see any problem with it - all three have different audiences, all three are generating ad revenue with your content, and you're getting your name and talent out there to as many people as possible.
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Old 04-03-2008, 05:16 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ottergoose
I don't see any problem with it - all three have different audiences, all three are generating ad revenue with your content, and you're getting your name and talent out there to as many people as possible.
I agree 100%, especially with the text in bold.
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Old 04-03-2008, 05:30 PM   #17
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Default I'm not a "business guy", but...

wouldn't it make sense for the RR press to surf sites like this for potential print content, kind of like a stock photo agency?

It would seem to be more efficient, especially using a site that screens to a baseline standard of quality, than waiting for content to come in randomly "over the transom", so to speak.

The original photgrapher retains copyright here, so any ownership issues should be easily resolved.

I'm sure the print rags can't afford to have legions of staff photographers out there snapping away.

So what am I missing?

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Old 04-03-2008, 05:35 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ExNavyDoc
wouldn't it make sense for the RR press to surf sites like this for potential print content, kind of like a stock photo agency?

It would seem to be more efficient, especially using a site that screens to a baseline standard of quality, than waiting for content to come in randomly "over the transom", so to speak.

The original photgrapher retains copyright here, so any ownership issues should be easily resolved.

I'm sure the print rags can't afford to have legions of staff photographers out there snapping away.

So what am I missing?

ExNavyDoc
They DO scan this site (and I'm sure others) for pictures. Seeing as the quality of images on RP MOST of the time exceeds that of photos you see in the major train mags, it only makes sense that they use RP as a resource. I've seen dozens of photos over the last year on RP in both Trains and R&R mags (one of them mine after I was contacted via RP, and most recently Andrew B's Sawyers River shot in R&R).

Last edited by JimThias; 04-03-2008 at 05:39 PM.
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Old 04-03-2008, 05:40 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimThias
If you send several at the same time, if anyone is interested, they are going to conact you, right?

Back in the Age of Celluloid, if a photographer sent in a "newsworthy" slide it usually got published without any further contact. (The Age of Celluloid roughly corresponded with the Age of Correspondence by Paper and Envelope, also known as the Age of Expensive Long Distance Calls, and No Email or IM.)

If slides showed up in the mail just a day or two before deadline, the editor went with it, and your first inkling was a check or seeing it in the mag.

Even then, you'd often see the "same" shot in both magazines, taken by two photographers standing near one another.

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Old 04-03-2008, 05:51 PM   #20
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The most recent Trains and the most recent Railfan have almost identical shots (maybe identical - haven't compared) of the new Brookville engine and of the new Mauratania engines. Even if they are not the same shot, they wer eboth similar enough that I did have that thought, why am I subscribing to both?
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Old 04-03-2008, 05:52 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Craft
Back in the Age of Celluloid, if a photographer sent in a "newsworthy" slide it usually got published without any further contact. (The Age of Celluloid roughly corresponded with the Age of Correspondence by Paper and Envelope, also known as the Age of Expensive Long Distance Calls, and No Email or IM.)
Well done.
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Old 04-03-2008, 11:52 PM   #22
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What do you guys think about how long I should wait for a response to an email submission to Trains before thinking about submitting elsewhere?

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Old 04-04-2008, 01:19 AM   #23
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They may hold it for Months if they think its good, unless you ask for it back. Thats why you send different shots in to. Best thing is just pick the one you like best and send there.
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Old 04-04-2008, 01:58 AM   #24
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Thanks Richard. Not exactly the response I was hoping for but it'll have to due.

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Old 04-04-2008, 02:41 AM   #25
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Well Nick
Who knows how long they will take, Was it a news shot? then if its not in the next month or so then no i would think. If you Emailed it and it was a news shot then its all its good for? as most will want a CD or DVD TIFF sent to them for something bigger than a news shot. There not big fans of E Mailed photo's as there not big 72 wide and there going to want 300 wide for printing and that is a big file! Best send a full sized RAW or TIFF with no processing or sharping on a CD and a print and a cover letter with it if you really want one in there. Most will have a paragraph or two on how to submit photos to them for publishing. good luck its worth a try as you wont get one in if you don't try.
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