Old 10-29-2008, 09:56 PM   #1
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I will never understand some people. Reporting marks seem like a simple concept to grasp in my mind, but apparently some struggle with it.

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Old 10-29-2008, 10:07 PM   #2
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The second one was likely a mistake. The first one is pretty blatant.
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Old 10-29-2008, 11:34 PM   #3
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How is it possible to make a mistake like that? You would have think of CP instead of D&H and that just shouldn't happen.
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Old 10-30-2008, 12:00 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike B.
How is it possible to make a mistake like that? You would have think of CP instead of D&H and that just shouldn't happen.
That line is a former D&H line (currently CP), and I think the old D&H girls pretty much stay on this line. I'm not real familiar with it though.

Another peeve of mine is labelling the RR as a leasor or run through power on a different RR. Example UP run through power on CSXT. UP DOES NOT HAVE TRACKAGE IN PA! That's what the reporting marks are for.
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Old 10-30-2008, 12:07 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EMTRailfan
That line is a former D&H line (currently CP), and I think the old D&H girls pretty much stay on this line. I'm not real familiar with it though.

Another peeve of mine is labelling the RR as a leasor or run through power on a different RR. Example UP run through power on CSXT. UP DOES NOT HAVE TRACKAGE IN PA! That's what the reporting marks are for.
I'm with you... but the submission form says "Railroad: The railroad to which the lead locomotive belongs." Thus, they are actually filling it out right... but it drives me crazy too, when a picture of Cajon says railroad, CSX.
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Old 10-30-2008, 12:23 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EMTRailfan
That line is a former D&H line (currently CP), and I think the old D&H girls pretty much stay on this line. I'm not real familiar with it though.

Another peeve of mine is labelling the RR as a leasor or run through power on a different RR. Example UP run through power on CSXT. UP DOES NOT HAVE TRACKAGE IN PA! That's what the reporting marks are for.
I am well aware of the CP owning the D&H, but there is no such thing as CP 7304. The CP isn't like UP, so it isn't patched.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Freericks
I'm with you... but the submission form says "Railroad: The railroad to which the lead locomotive belongs." Thus, they are actually filling it out right... but it drives me crazy too, when a picture of Cajon says railroad, CSX.
I agree, the admins should change it to say that it should reflect the reporting marks, not the owner.
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Old 10-30-2008, 12:46 AM   #7
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I'd consider myself much more a photographer then a railfan d'extreme.

Perhaps in time myself and others will make the decision to invest the time to figure out the stats. "UP loaded coal" is rather absurd though the D&H shot is listed as "unknown" presently - or is it preferred to call D&H CP?

My best guess is that when the majority of the viewers want to see a D&H or CSX painted engine, that is what they would prefer to see upon searching, though I feel your pain, so to speak, when it comes to listing Strasburg's steam as either Strasburg or N&W. I stick to the paint for the road name (railroad) and the ownership for the reporting marks, of which for steam I can readily figure out.

Best bet would be inserting an additional field in the listings perhaps.

/Mitch

Maybe someone would care to s'plain it in the forums, though, I doubt it can be told vrs aquired over time.
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Old 10-30-2008, 12:59 AM   #8
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The one argument for listing these engines as CP is that they are not original D&H engines. CP painted them in the 90's so they are basically heritage units. However, UMLER lists the D&H engines (7303, 7304, 7312) as DH engines, not CP.

One big pet peeve of mine is the listing of CSXT engines as CSX in the locomotive field.
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Old 10-30-2008, 01:55 AM   #9
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Regarding the comment about not showing "the owner," but rather "the reporting marks," that isn't all such a great idea. If I go to the home page and select "Burlington Northern Railroad" from the fallen flags list, I want real, true BN shots, not something like this:

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That photo is properly labeled as "Burlington Northern Santa Fe," but with "BN 2106" as the engine ID. IMO, that's how all database photos should be - if the company no longer exists, they can't own the subject locomotive.

On the other hand, companies like Soo Line and Illinois Central might be long gone operation-wise, but they're still railroads on paper, and are wholly owned subsidiaries of CPR and CN respectively. Therefore, their locomotives should still be labeled as owned by the same company as the reporting marks:

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Except in cases like this, where CN has basically claimed the locomotive as theirs:

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And, when who knows how many photographers go to shoot the DME/ICE locomotives in the CPR photo shoots tomorrow, they better still label them as belonging to "Dakota, Minnesota & Eastern" & "Iowa, Chicago & Eastern," rather than "Canadian Pacific Railway."

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Old 10-30-2008, 01:56 AM   #10
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My recent Pet Peeve has been people listing the "Atchison, Topeka, & Santa Fe (ATSF)" as the "Santa Fe."

Personally, I think listing the railroad as the owner of the lead locomotive makes sense, because it is the simplest and easiest way to do it. There's generally a lot less argument about the owner of a locomotive as compared to the owner of a line. For example, what do you do when the there is dual ownership of a line? Or when the line is owned by one entity but leased by another. For example, the Wisconsin & Southern leases track from the state of Wisconsin and/or Rail Commisions. Plus, there are gray areas, like in this shot:
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The track around this area, not even the employees are sure exactly who owns what. The crossing and switch where the derailment "began" is on the NS, while the area past there is owned by CN.

Overall, I think that's why the admins chose the lead locomotive.
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Old 10-30-2008, 02:07 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slopes09
There's generally a lot less argument about the owner of a locomotive as compared to the owner of a line. For example, what do you do when the there is dual ownership of a line? Or when the line is owned by one entity but leased by another. For example, the Wisconsin & Southern leases track from the state of Wisconsin and/or Rail Commisions.
Right on. Say this unit...

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ever was caught on BNSF track, the owner better still read "Union Pacific." The reporting marks should then say CNW, and the rail location should mention BNSF.

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Old 10-30-2008, 02:42 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Becker
Regarding the comment about not showing "the owner," but rather "the reporting marks," that isn't all such a great idea. If I go to the home page and select "Burlington Northern Railroad" from the fallen flags list, I want real, true BN shots, not something like this:

Image © Electric boxcar
PhotoID: 152253
Photograph © Electric boxcar


That photo is properly labeled as "Burlington Northern Santa Fe," but with "BN 2106" as the engine ID. IMO, that's how all database photos should be - if the company no longer exists, they can't own the subject locomotive.
If you're looking for unpatched BN engines after 1996, you're screwed. Technically speaking, the 2106 in the that photo is a BN locomotive, not a BNSF. It's owned by BNSF, but all documentation still shows (at that time) it as a BN. Not until it's patched or painted is it truly a BNSF locomotive.

There is way too much incorrect information in this database so I don't know why I'm even bothering with this thread. RP needs regional fact checkers...

Last edited by Mike B.; 10-30-2008 at 02:45 AM.
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Old 10-30-2008, 03:02 AM   #13
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What if someone doesn't know a particular symbol?
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Old 10-30-2008, 03:57 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Fladung
What if someone doesn't know a particular symbol?
They should ask or look it up
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Old 10-30-2008, 04:42 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike B.
How is it possible to make a mistake like that? You would have think of CP instead of D&H and that just shouldn't happen.
I am withdrawing my comment since I mis spoke and can look dumb enuff without it..............
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Old 10-30-2008, 05:11 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Fladung
What if someone doesn't know a particular symbol?
If you're referring to a train symbol, just enter it as 'unknown.' That's what I've done when I can't find it or don't feel like going through my sources.
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Old 10-30-2008, 12:53 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Fladung
What if someone doesn't know a particular symbol?
I don't think the issue is with the train's symbol, but rather the reporting marks of the power. Not everyone is going to know the symbol, especially if you don't have a scanner, but finding correct info on the power is pretty easy to do these days.
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Old 10-30-2008, 01:26 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freericks
I'm with you... but the submission form says "Railroad: The railroad to which the lead locomotive belongs." Thus, they are actually filling it out right... but it drives me crazy too, when a picture of Cajon says railroad, CSX.
True, but if I rent a car from Enterprise or lease one from a dealer, that car is mine and I am responsable for it until I take it back or the lease is over. So an LTEX leasor on CSX is 'owned' by CSX until the lease is up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slopes09
Personally, I think listing the railroad as the owner of the lead locomotive makes sense, because it is the simplest and easiest way to do it. There's generally a lot less argument about the owner of a locomotive as compared to the owner of a line. For example, what do you do when the there is dual ownership of a line? Or when the line is owned by one entity but leased by another. For example, the Wisconsin & Southern leases track from the state of Wisconsin and/or Rail Commisions. Plus, there are gray areas, like in this shot:
If another entity owns a line as you mention the state of Wisconsin, Wisconsin and Southern 'owns' the line and is responsible for it until their lease is up, correct?

I actually think the entries should be as what the train ID would be. This would alleviate whether it is a CSXT train with UP run-through power, or a BNSF train on UP ribbons via trackage rights. In the BNSF case it WOULD be a BNSF train since it is a BNSF crew operating that train. Amtrak, for the most part, operates via trackage rights. So it should be an Amtrak train ID: AMTK 42 or 43, not NS 04T going around Horseshoe Curve, etc.

To each is their own, but this is how I have, and will be completing the data in my photos. Just my 2 cents.
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Old 10-30-2008, 02:13 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EMTRailfan
True, but if I rent a car from Enterprise or lease one from a dealer, that car is mine and I am responsable for it until I take it back or the lease is over. So an LTEX leasor on CSX is 'owned' by CSX until the lease is up.
Um... aren't you arguing the same side that I am?
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Old 10-30-2008, 03:19 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Fladung
What if someone doesn't know a particular symbol?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...rting_marks:_A
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Old 10-30-2008, 03:25 PM   #21
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I am like Mitch in that I do not consider myself a die hard rail fan person who can tell the date that the track was laid by smelling the ties. I love trains and simply like to photograph them. So, with that in mind, tell me if I have "violated" any of you with the following:

Here is a photo I took a few weeks ago. This is a UP owned? SP loco. It is unpatched and one of only a few left. It is on the old SP LA/Phoenix mainline which is now a 25 mile long dead end spur.
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Old 10-30-2008, 05:02 PM   #22
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Ahh, so now I know why my shot of an Oakway SD60 exiting Cascade tunnel went from EMDX to EMD one day!

It's not my fault, I'm from Canada, eh...
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Old 10-30-2008, 05:09 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J Douglas Moore
I am like Mitch in that I do not consider myself a die hard rail fan person who can tell the date that the track was laid by smelling the ties. I love trains and simply like to photograph them. So, with that in mind, tell me if I have "violated" any of you with the following:

Here is a photo I took a few weeks ago. This is a UP owned? SP loco. It is unpatched and one of only a few left. It is on the old SP LA/Phoenix mainline which is now a 25 mile long dead end spur.
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SP 7125 is correct.
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Old 10-30-2008, 09:17 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freericks
SP 7125 is correct.
Ok, now if it had the UP yellow rectangle with a UP 7125, then it would correctly be UP 7125??
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Old 10-30-2008, 09:56 PM   #25
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Quote:
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Ok, now if it had the UP yellow rectangle with a UP 7125, then it would correctly be UP 7125??
Yes and no. UP 7135 is an AC4400CW, so if this particular engine had a yellow patch but was still somehow showing #7135 there would be something very wrong.

I know, I'm talking in circles, but my point is, #7135 is an SP roster number for a GP40M-2 Morrison Knudson rebuild. When this engine gets that ugly patch it will receive a UP number (in this case, UP #1513).
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