Old 10-02-2013, 05:24 AM   #1
netfangwei
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Default How far should I keep away from the tracks with "No-trespassing" sign?

Hello all:
I wonder if someone could answer my question, when taking pictures near the tracks with no trespassing sign, how far should I keep away for safety concern?
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Old 10-02-2013, 02:19 PM   #2
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Good question. You will get varying opinions. I would say 10 feet from a moving train, but others will tell you horror stories of flying chains, straps, derailments, etc.

You take your chances. Metra, the commuter rail in Chicago, says "stay behind the yellow line" which is about two feet from the train itself. Express trains go by at 60 mph and they say "stay behind the yellow line." Way too close for my comfort, but apparently OK with Metra (which is actually run by different railroads).
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Old 10-02-2013, 03:26 PM   #3
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I think most ROWs are anywhere 30-50 feet, so cut that in half for each side from center of visible trackage. Keep in mind, just because you are on the pretty side of the sign, you still may be on RR property and asked to leave. When you disregard a sign and walk past it, it turns into defiant trespassing, and can be a greater charge if prosecuted. It usually just ends up with someone puffing their chest and making you leave unless it is an actual LEO that witnesses the offense (which can go either way too). Depending on the crew, etc., it may go the other way for you and get you some "ins", etc. if you are respectful and not a dork and let them work and not bother them or make them worry about your safety. We ALL have trespassed, and anyone that tells you they haven't is FOS.
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Old 10-02-2013, 09:58 PM   #4
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No trespassing signs have nothing to do with safety.

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Originally Posted by EMTRailfan View Post
I think most ROWs are anywhere 30-50 feet, so cut that in half for each side from center of visible trackage. Keep in mind, just because you are on the pretty side of the sign, you still may be on RR property and asked to leave. When you disregard a sign and walk past it, it turns into defiant trespassing, and can be a greater charge if prosecuted.
Actually that is bad advice, and here is why.

Trespassing laws (even Trespassing on RR property) are State laws (despite what ill informed RR employees and ill informed RR cops will tell you). They vary greatly by state. In some states, trespassing is a crime (low level misdemeanor), in some states, it's not crime, it's a municipal infraction (similar to traffic laws). So before telling someone what to do, or what not to do, you should have them check the laws of the state they plan on trespassing in. Using my state as an example, you cannot be even charged with trespassing on property unless certain signage requirements are met (you have to have a "No Trespassing" sign every 50 feet around the perimeter of the property near where you were "discovered". Or if you were asked to leave the property by the owner, lessee, or agent of such authorized to ask you to leave. And then, you will be given a "trespass warning". You cant just be hauled off for trespassing here unless warned.

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It usually just ends up with someone puffing their chest and making you leave unless it is an actual LEO that witnesses the offense (which can go either way too). Depending on the crew, etc., it may go the other way for you and get you some "ins", etc. if you are respectful and not a dork and let them work and not bother them or make them worry about your safety.
It's unfortunate a lot of RR employees act like that. Most cops these days do the same thing, they take every single stupid offense like it's a capital crime. Meanwhile, 1000 feat away, someone's wife is being beat, drugs are being dealt, meth being cooked, etc. and yes they choose to screw around with the little stuff.

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We ALL have trespassed, and anyone that tells you they haven't is FOS.
It's my opinion that trespassing laws by and large are ridiculous and shouldnt even be crimes. If someone trespasses one property where someone lives, the owner should take care of it themselves. It will help crime, population growth issues, medicaid and food stamps needs. Trespassing on RR property, if you are stupid and get hit, you deserve to die.

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Old 10-02-2013, 10:48 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by netfangwei View Post
Hello all:
I wonder if someone could answer my question, when taking pictures near the tracks with no trespassing sign, how far should I keep away for safety concern?
I read this as saying what to do when a sign is not present.

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Originally Posted by Hatchetman View Post
Good question. You will get varying opinions. I would say 10 feet from a moving train, but others will tell you horror stories of flying chains, straps, derailments, etc.
Yup.

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Actually that is bad advice, and here is why.
To be clear, Troy's comment refers only to the part of Hatchetman's post that refers to signs and trespass. Hatchetman has good advice on proximity. As I grow older, I step back further and further. The crews certainly appreciate that too - to them, you are just a possible death.

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If someone trespasses one property where someone lives, the owner should take care of it themselves. It will help crime, population growth issues, medicaid and food stamps needs. Trespassing on RR property, if you are stupid and get hit, you deserve to die.
Sounds like Troy is in favor of murder. I disagree. And given how much detail Troy went into the law on trespass, you would think he would be more mindful on the law regarding self defense as a justification for killing. Big, big difference between trespass and a life or death situation.

But then, Troy is sometimes not mindful at all, he just likes to babble.
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Old 10-03-2013, 12:10 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by troy12n View Post
It's my opinion that trespassing laws by and large are ridiculous and shouldnt even be crimes. If someone trespasses one property where someone lives, the owner should take care of it themselves. It will help crime, population growth issues, medicaid and food stamps needs. Trespassing on RR property, if you are stupid and get hit, you deserve to die.
Agreed. In the days before laws, natural selection did the job
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Old 10-03-2013, 12:26 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by troy12n View Post
It's unfortunate a lot of RR employees act like that. Most cops these days do the same thing, they take every single stupid offense like it's a capital crime. Meanwhile, 1000 feat away, someone's wife is being beat, drugs are being dealt, meth being cooked, etc. and yes they choose to screw around with the little stuff.
Welcome to Florida - The Sunshine State

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It's my opinion that trespassing laws by and large are ridiculous and shouldnt even be crimes. If someone trespasses one property where someone lives, the owner should take care of it themselves. It will help crime, population growth issues, medicaid and food stamps needs. Trespassing on RR property, if you are stupid and get hit, you deserve to die.
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Old 10-03-2013, 02:26 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by troy12n View Post
Actually that is bad advice, and here is why.

Trespassing laws (even Trespassing on RR property) are State laws (despite what ill informed RR employees and ill informed RR cops will tell you). They vary greatly by state. In some states, trespassing is a crime (low level misdemeanor), in some states, it's not crime, it's a municipal infraction (similar to traffic laws). So before telling someone what to do, or what not to do, you should have them check the laws of the state they plan on trespassing in. Using my state as an example, you cannot be even charged with trespassing on property unless certain signage requirements are met (you have to have a "No Trespassing" sign every 50 feet around the perimeter of the property near where you were "discovered". Or if you were asked to leave the property by the owner, lessee, or agent of such authorized to ask you to leave. And then, you will be given a "trespass warning". You cant just be hauled off for trespassing here unless warned.
I concur. I should have stated that I was referencing PA. I looked into "defiant trespass" after I asked my Sheriff about conceal carrying in a business that I occasionally visit that has a no loaded weapons sign in the rear of the business. He told me that since the sign is not clearly posted at points of entry that the sign itself is pretty much BS, but the owner/employees have to ask me to leave. Needless to say, I believe in the "don't ask, don't tell theory At this point, a defiant trespass is made if I refuse to leave or if I would pass by a clearly posted GFZ sign elsewhere. I'm not familiar with what RR bulls can and can't do as far as detain, arrest, etc.
http://law.onecle.com/pennsylvania/c...5.003.000.html


Quote:
It's my opinion that trespassing laws by and large are ridiculous and shouldnt even be crimes. If someone trespasses one property where someone lives, the owner should take care of it themselves. It will help crime, population growth issues, medicaid and food stamps needs. Trespassing on RR property, if you are stupid and get hit, you deserve to die.
I agree here too to an extent No one should be on my property without having the decency to ask permission to access. If I confront someone about being on my property, and they start bashing my head into the concrete, then game on. This is where the population issues part of your reply will come into play.

PS: My Sheriff also said that if a LEO witnesses a defiant trespass, they are essentially witnessing the crime, which would fall under section 2 of the defiant trespass section of the provided link, which again in my instance, "don't ask, don't tell".
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Old 10-07-2013, 01:52 AM   #9
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Sounds like Troy is in favor of murder. I disagree. And given how much detail Troy went into the law on trespass, you would think he would be more mindful on the law regarding self defense as a justification for killing. Big, big difference between trespass and a life or death situation.
I am in favor of murder in certain circumstances, like someone rapes my child, or wife. That person's gonna possibly get a killin', to hell with due process. But that is not what I am getting at here. In the context of the conversation and subject of someone trespassing on RR property, and is hit and killed, that is not murder, that is "death by stupidity". The train crew didn't murder the person. In terms of my rant about tresspassing on "property" and the owner "dealing with it", I wasnt implying the owner should shoot the person...

But then again, it's quite possible the person may be armed and possibly might be found dead with a knife or other dangerous object in his hand after he gets shot on my property. I felt threatened after all, right?

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But then, Troy is sometimes not mindful at all, he just likes to babble.
Wont debate you on that point.
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Old 10-07-2013, 01:59 AM   #10
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I concur. I should have stated that I was referencing PA. I looked into "defiant trespass" after I asked my Sheriff about conceal carrying in a business that I occasionally visit that has a no loaded weapons sign in the rear of the business. He told me that since the sign is not clearly posted at points of entry that the sign itself is pretty much BS, but the owner/employees have to ask me to leave.
In my state, those signs do not have the power of law. You can ignore them. If someone asks you to leave, you need to heed the request, whether or not you are carrying or not. It's a moot point. You need to go and if you refuse, you should probably be arrested. It sucks if you live in a state where stupid signs like that have the power of law. Here, there is only a handful of places where you cant legally carry (federal government buildings (excluding national parks and national forests), courthouses, sporting events, polling locations, police stations/sheriffs offices, schools, a couple other places). In fact, there is a law that forbids companies from preventing you from having a weapon in your car at work and a preemption law forbidding local governments from passing any legislation that involves firearms and invalidated any existing local laws which did.

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Needless to say, I believe in the "don't ask, don't tell theory At this point, a defiant trespass is made if I refuse to leave or if I would pass by a clearly posted GFZ sign elsewhere.
Clearly that is the right thing to do. I am not advocating anyone be f'ing RAMBO RAILFAN or anything.
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