Old 12-31-2009, 05:15 AM   #1
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I would like to know what RP's policy is on reopening upload limits. For whatever reason (I don't know why) I have had a 2 photo upload limit practically since I got on here. I am wondering if it will go back to 10 if I ever like achieve reasonable success with the site (40 or more shots). Or how that works.
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Old 12-31-2009, 05:25 AM   #2
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The screeners (or maybe certain screeners, I don't know) seem to have taken a pretty punitive approach to dealing with submissions lately. Instead of providing any constructive feedback into what's wrong with a shot you just get the rejection reason, which is often very vague (bad color can mean one or more of five different things, good luck figuring out which ones), and you're expected to read the screener's mind as to just what's wrong. If you get the answer wrong, you get punished.

I don't know, maybe it's just a plot to push more people into buying memberships, but it's a pretty lousy way to run a community if you ask me.
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Old 12-31-2009, 05:32 AM   #3
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Why is it the responsibility of the screeners to provide feedback other than the rejection reason? I would say that's what these forums are for, but when I provided additional feedback on one of your shots, you got snarky with me. Now I imagine when you fix the exposure problem on that shot and it gets rejected for another reason, you'll come here bitching about "lack of feedback."

And then comment about the membership is not legitimate. RP members don't get screened any different than the rest of us. Me? Non member with 622 shots currently.
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Old 12-31-2009, 05:38 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by SamD View Post
The screeners (or maybe certain screeners, I don't know) seem to have taken a pretty punitive approach to dealing with submissions lately. Instead of providing any constructive feedback into what's wrong with a shot you just get the rejection reason, which is often very vague (bad color can mean one or more of five different things, good luck figuring out which ones), and you're expected to read the screener's mind as to just what's wrong. If you get the answer wrong, you get punished.

I don't know, maybe it's just a plot to push more people into buying memberships, but it's a pretty lousy way to run a community if you ask me.
We'll use "bad color" as an example. Personally, I think it's quite obvious as to whether or a shot is over saturated or lacking color depth. If you can't tell the difference, then as Joe suggested, the forums are always here.

I highly recommend changing your approach before you're disliked. You've already ticked off Joe.

I hate to say it, but you're wrong. RP is not trying to push you into buying an elite membership, they simply doo not have the time to go through every image and type a paragraph on what is wrong with it. If you have a problem with that, perhaps the whole screening process in general is not working for you.

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Old 12-31-2009, 05:52 AM   #5
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Why is it the responsibility of the screeners to provide feedback other than the rejection reason?
Umm... because they're the ones who are rejecting the photos and have the inside track on what they feel is lacking in the photo?

Also, logically speaking, one would think screeners would not want to waste their time rejecting photos corrected for the wrong thing or in the wrong way a bunch of times. Better communication, which could be as simple as using the "screener comments" field could save a lot of time on everyone's part (and the few times a screener has taken five seconds to use that field is has always been of enormous help in trouble shooting the photo, and indeed of greater help than the forums have ever been)

Quote:
I would say that's what these forums are for, but when I provided additional feedback on one of your shots, you got snarky with me. Now I imagine when you fix the exposure problem on that shot and it gets rejected for another reason, you'll come here bitching about "lack of feedback."
This is OT, but I feel the need to respond...

I wasn't trying to be "snarky" with you, but I asked about a specific problem with a photo and you responded with a bunch of unrelated issues that weren't issues for the screener who rejected the photo (and if they were, see my above comment about bad communication). That's a little bit of an arrogant way to approach someone, don't you think? Pontificate on all the things you find wrong with their shot but ignore the one thing they specifically asked about? So yeah, sorry for being snarky.
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Old 12-31-2009, 06:00 AM   #6
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We'll use "bad color" as an example. Personally, I think it's quite obvious as to whether or a shot is over saturated or lacking color depth. If you can't tell the difference, then as Joe suggested, the forums are always here.
You don't get many bad color suggestions rejections do you?

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I hate to say it, but you're wrong. RP is not trying to push you into buying an elite membership, they simply doo not have the time to go through every image and type a paragraph on what is wrong with it. If you have a problem with that, perhaps the whole screening process in general is not working for you.
No one's talking about a paragraph. I'm talking about either a clearer set of rejection reasons (like "bad saturation" and "bad color balance" instead of bad color) and/or using the one-line screener comment field for particularly troublesome shots (not even every shot) so it's clear what the issue is. The five seconds that would take to do will save much more time for the screener in the long run (to say nothing of the users editing their pictures).


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If you have a problem with that, perhaps the whole screening process in general is not working for you.
No, it isn't. This is why I'm suggesting ways it could be improved (one of which would not require any change to the screening process at all, only in how it is used).

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Old 12-31-2009, 06:07 AM   #7
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You don't get many bad color suggestions do you?)
Not quite certain what you mean by "suggestions". Do you mean, rejections? Please clarify, as I am confused.

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No one's talking about a paragraph. I'm talking about either a clearer set of rejection reasons (like "bad saturation" and "bad color balance" instead of bad color) and/or using the one-line screener comment field for particularly troublesome shots (not even every shot) so it's clear what the issue is. The five seconds that would take to do will save much more time for the screener in the long run (to say nothing of the users editing their pictures.
I suppose a more clear set of rejections reasons may benefit some photographers, but personally, I find the current rejection descriptions perfeclty clear and understandable. Not saying you're wrong, I'm just looking at it from my perspective.

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Old 12-31-2009, 06:16 AM   #8
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Not quite certain what you mean by "suggestions". Do you mean, rejections? Please clarify, as I am confused.
Opps, thanks for pointing that out. I corrected.

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I suppose a more clear set of rejections reasons may benefit some photographers, but personally, I find the current rejection descriptions perfeclty clear and understandable. Not saying you're wrong, I'm just looking at it from my perspective.

Chase
For the most part I agree with you. Bad color (which I have rarely gotten, but have almost never successfully corrected for) not withstanding, 90% of the time the rejection reasons are perfectly clear.

It's that other 10% that creates frustration and often turns into a big waste of time for everyone involved. I think you could eliminate most of that 10% with more specific comments on the photo, even if they were nothing more than "this photo just isn't working" which at least would tell the user they were fighting a lost cause (which a screener actually did once years ago, and it was helpful).

For an example of where a rejection reason is unclear and could have benefited from better communication, see the thread I recently posted about some mystifying "bad angle" rejections.
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Old 12-31-2009, 06:24 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by SamD View Post
The screeners (or maybe certain screeners, I don't know) seem to have taken a pretty punitive approach to dealing with submissions lately. Instead of providing any constructive feedback into what's wrong with a shot you just get the rejection reason, which is often very vague (bad color can mean one or more of five different things, good luck figuring out which ones), and you're expected to read the screener's mind as to just what's wrong. If you get the answer wrong, you get punished.
What is the punishment? A rejection?

As far as being vague and getting feedback... out of all the rejections I've had over the years, I think I've only had two or maybe three comments from the screeners on a rejection.

It seems you post on the forums for feedback, and then people give it to you, and you tell them you didn't want to hear other than the specific rejection reason. I'd venture to say that the rejection acceptance ratio is something like 4 rejections per accepted photo (for the gross number of uploads). I know my rejection rate is much lower because I don't upload everything I shoot, but some people do. If the screeners were to leave comments or constructive feedback on every image, it would take them forever to screen through the photos.
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Old 12-31-2009, 06:48 AM   #10
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What is the punishment? A rejection?
Umm, the upload limit being reduced arbitrarily with no warning? I'm not sure what you'd call that if not a punishment.

As far as being vague and getting feedback... out of all the rejections I've had over the years, I think I've only had two or maybe three comments from the screeners on a rejection.

Quote:
It seems you post on the forums for feedback, and then people give it to you, and you tell them you didn't want to hear other than the specific rejection reason.
While often useful, feedback from spectators is no substitute for feed back from the person who rejected the photo. All they can do is make an educated guess. Maybe that will be enough, maybe it won't. It seems like it would be a lot easier for all involved for the screener to just type "sky highlights too bright" than to play a ten round guessing game.

[qoute]If the screeners were to leave comments or constructive feedback on every image, it would take them forever to screen through the photos.[/quote]

Read my previous posts. I didn't say every image, I said particularly troublesome ones, as in photos that have been corrected and reupped at least once. This would improve the quality of corrected submissions, in turn cutting down on the total number of uploads.

I wouldn't even mind a lower upload limit if the screen process was less hit or miss.
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Old 12-31-2009, 12:21 PM   #11
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Well lets say you get a photo with the bad color reject. I imagine RP doesn't have the time to go through every photo with the bad color reject and put things like "This photo has too much of a greenish tint." If you've got 200 photos in the queue, it's going to take double the time to go through all the photos and add those comments. The rejection should make you stop and look over the photo again. You might say, "Doh! I missed that!" Or if you really think you're right, you can appeal it. And for those who don't know what to do with the photo once it's rejected, that's why RP created the forums.
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Old 12-31-2009, 01:25 PM   #12
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Hi Sam,

Chris and Jim have really hit the nail on the head. The issue is time. There are only 5 Screeners on the site, and on an average day, that group collectively probably screens over 300 pictures. Since they are all volunteers with day jobs, lives etc, the fact that they accomplish as much as they do says as much for their skills as time managers as it says for their skills as photo critics. If a given Screener had to bust through a queue of 100 shots (which can easily accumulate on a weekend), and also had to provide detailed feedback on each one, they'd be there all night. Folks with memberships don't get special treatment with regard to the rejection reasons. They also don't get special treatment in the area of upload limits if their rejection rate is high. It has not been my observation that the site owners are using rejections to try and drive paid memberships.

When I get rejections, I have the same questions you do. If I can see the problem, I fix it. I also look the shot over for other potential problems, knowing full well that the Screeners don't usually have time to enumerate all of the issues. If I can't figure out what's wrong, I'll decide if the shot is important enough to me to show it publicly and ask for help. If it's not, I put it aside and move on. In some cases, I believe the Screener was really trying to tell me: "My friend, you've got better stuff".
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Old 12-31-2009, 02:18 PM   #13
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I'm sorry. I didn't start this to be another thread complaining about the screening process. We're here to talk about UPLOAD LIMITS, for crying out loud.
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Old 12-31-2009, 02:35 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SamD View Post
The screeners (or maybe certain screeners, I don't know) seem to have taken a pretty punitive approach to dealing with submissions lately. Instead of providing any constructive feedback into what's wrong with a shot you just get the rejection reason, which is often very vague (bad color can mean one or more of five different things, good luck figuring out which ones), and you're expected to read the screener's mind as to just what's wrong. If you get the answer wrong, you get punished.

I don't know, maybe it's just a plot to push more people into buying memberships, but it's a pretty lousy way to run a community if you ask me.
With your rejected photo, it states to go to the forums for advice and help.

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Old 12-31-2009, 02:40 PM   #15
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This is OT, but I feel the need to respond...

I wasn't trying to be "snarky" with you, but I asked about a specific problem with a photo and you responded with a bunch of unrelated issues that weren't issues for the screener who rejected the photo (and if they were, see my above comment about bad communication). That's a little bit of an arrogant way to approach someone, don't you think? Pontificate on all the things you find wrong with their shot but ignore the one thing they specifically asked about? So yeah, sorry for being snarky.
Why do the screeners need to point out all of your photos issues? You will cry about that then anyways. Also, when you make one adjustment it can correct or cause more issues. When you ask me for help, I don't need to even see the rejection because I will tell you everything i think is wrong with your photo.
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Old 12-31-2009, 05:13 PM   #16
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Okay, back to the original question. I checked the front page and found no link to their policy on the two upload limit. My guess is go X amount of time with a good acceptance rate (not that this info isn't anything you don't already know). I would suggest submitting one ever few days and you might even want to post them on the forum first. Just don't flood the queue with photos that will be rejected.

Or you could just live with the 2 upload limit. At the risk of pissing people off, I'll add the controversial saying as of late, "Why would you need more than two uploads?"
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Old 12-31-2009, 05:31 PM   #17
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Just 1 simple questions...Becomes a harsh conversation....
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Old 12-31-2009, 05:32 PM   #18
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Or you could just live with the 2 upload limit. At the risk of pissing people off, I'll add the controversial saying as of late, "Why would you need more than two uploads?"
Then I guess I'd ask you, "Why would you want only two uploads?" I can certainly see why someone might want to be able to upload more than two shots every day. If you're processing photos and find three shots you think are RP-worthy and want to submitt them then and there, oops. Can't do that.

I understand why the admins instituted the two a days, but I also see why folks get irritated when they're down to two uploads.
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Old 12-31-2009, 09:17 PM   #19
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We're here to talk about UPLOAD LIMITS, for crying out loud.
No one wants to hear you crying out loud.
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Old 01-01-2010, 03:00 AM   #20
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Trust me... the last thing I want to see is for someone who's had their upload limit reduced due to too many rejections to run out, sign up for an Elite membership, and start bombarding the queue. 9.9 times out of 10, that just results in increased workload for me as I have to contact the uploader, explain that Elite membership isn't a cart blanch to accumulate tons of rejections, and refund their membership fees.

I think others in the thread have already hit the nail on the head as to why we can't offer detailed explanations with every rejected photo (time). However, here are a few stats that show what the workload is:

- We have 5 screeners on the site.
- 2 of the 5 have screened roughly 86% of the photos uploaded this year.
- There were 136,970 photos uploaded in 2009
- That's an average of 375.26 screened per day
- 42250 were accepted on initial screening
- That's a 30.85% acceptance percentage, which is up more than 5% over that of 2008 (25.04%)

Now, some personal stats for me:

- I screened 49,388 photos in 2009, 36.06% percent of the total
- That's an average of 135.3 per day
- Assuming that I average 30-45 seconds per shot, which I would say is average, that's over 85 minutes of screening per day, 365 days a year, just on my part.

Now, obviously, I don't screen that heavily, or even at all, every single day of the year. There were, however, only 8 days in all of 2009 when I didn't screen a single photo, and 5 of them were in February when I was in St. Maarten with no internet connection (very intentional). Some days I'm only able to do maybe 30 or 40; some days, such as Sundays (which are always busiest), I may do 400-500 or more in a single day.

That's on top of screening appeals, comments, and e-mails for acceptance, responding to e-mails, managing the servers, programming new/changed features, trying to maintain security, and dealing with advertisers.

I also own 5 other websites on which I'm just as, if not more, involved.

Oh, and I have a full time job (Director of Operations, they call me) at the largest model aircraft manufacturer in North America.

So yes, I can see how it would be very easy to read a rejection e-mail and think that we should be offering more feedback. Without exponentially growing the screening team (which would lead to all sorts of other complaints), however, I just don't see how that would be possible.

We have worked hard to build and fine tune the list of rejection reasons to try to be as straightforward as possible. You always have the option to appeal if you don't agree with our decision.
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Old 01-01-2010, 03:22 AM   #21
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Chris, thanks for the details on screening.

It would help a lot, given the frequency with which the question arises, if you were to give some sense of the process of getting the upload limit raised from 2 back to 10. It seems to be rather a black hole as far as info and understanding go.

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Old 01-01-2010, 03:27 AM   #22
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When you put it into that perspective, Chris, it really gives us (the contributors) an idea of how busy you guys are. With that being said, it's rather amazing you guys manage to have as much patience as you do.

I know for a fact I was one of the "annoying" contributors when I first got into the hobby. I had no idea what made for an acceptable photo here on RP.

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Old 01-01-2010, 03:47 AM   #23
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Chris,
Thanks for the perspective.
I would love to know at what point after becoming a successful uploader will I get re-allotted 10 per day.

Happy New Year!
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Old 01-01-2010, 04:28 AM   #24
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Quote:
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- I screened 49,388 photos in 2009, 36.06% percent of the total
- That's an average of 135.3 per day
- Assuming that I average 30-45 seconds per shot, which I would say is average, that's over 85 minutes of screening per day, 365 days a year, just on my part.

Now, obviously, I don't screen that heavily, or even at all, every single day of the year. There were, however, only 8 days in all of 2009 when I didn't screen a single photo, and 5 of them were in February when I was in St. Maarten with no internet connection (very intentional). Some days I'm only able to do maybe 30 or 40; some days, such as Sundays (which are always busiest), I may do 400-500 or more in a single day.

That's on top of screening appeals, comments, and e-mails for acceptance, responding to e-mails, managing the servers, programming new/changed features, trying to maintain security, and dealing with advertisers.

I also own 5 other websites on which I'm just as, if not more, involved.
Good Lord. That's just astounding......

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Oh, and I have a full time job (Director of Operations, they call me) at the largest model aircraft manufacturer in North America.
After reading the above, is anyone really surprised at this revelation?
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Old 01-01-2010, 04:32 AM   #25
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I do hereby swear that I will never again upload a picture that is not something that I'm 100% sure will get on the site, so help me God.

/halfkidding, halfnot
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