Old 04-11-2010, 08:22 PM   #1
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Default PEQ, really?

Are these really PEQ? recrop and submit to a different screener? I would have expected foreground clutter on the second one.

http://www.railpictures.net/viewreje...&key=862806864
http://www.railpictures.net/viewreje...&key=862806864
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Old 04-11-2010, 11:05 PM   #2
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Hi Paul,

I can only see the first rejection so I can't comment on the second.

This is just a wild guess, but it is possible that one or more Screeners may have tired of the "woman in the shot" genre or the "Darwin candidate" genre, and this shot appears to be a combination of the two.

If the shot was not rejected for technical reasons, it's a fair bet that it just rubbed the Screener the wrong way. You could appeal, but you'd need to explain what you were trying to accomplish with the image and succeed in convincing CS or CK that the Screener's impression of the shot was totally off base.

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Old 04-11-2010, 11:15 PM   #3
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Needs to be cropped tighter. Then again, since the train was stopped, maybe the screener decided that was worthy of the PEQ.
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Old 04-12-2010, 04:48 AM   #4
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Im surprised, she's more attractive than many of the Girls of RP.net
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Old 04-12-2010, 02:55 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Joe the Photog View Post
Needs to be cropped tighter. Then again, since the train was stopped, maybe the screener decided that was worthy of the PEQ.
the train was moving!
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Old 04-12-2010, 02:59 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by KevinM View Post
Hi Paul,

I can only see the first rejection so I can't comment on the second.
here's the second reject shot

http://www.railpictures.net/viewreje...&key=498632086

I cropped this one tighter, too. have feeling this will get the distortion effect reject
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Old 04-12-2010, 03:08 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe the Photog View Post
Needs to be cropped tighter. Then again, since the train was stopped, maybe the screener decided that was worthy of the PEQ.
I went much tighter, does this work?
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Old 04-12-2010, 04:38 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by pderekh View Post
here's the second reject shot

http://www.railpictures.net/viewreje...&key=498632086

I cropped this one tighter, too. have feeling this will get the distortion effect reject
Hi Paul,

The second rejection is definitely more dramatic and looks less staged. I don't see the heat distortion from the exhaust as a problem, although others might.

Here's the thing. With a PEQ, your only real option is to appeal. Since the Screener didn't cite any technical problems with shot, there's nothing you can correct. He's basically telling you: "We don't want stuff like this". Only his "bosses" can override his decision. If you just re-upload it, it will probably not be well-received. The Screeners can see your previous rejections. CK has made that pretty clear.

As previously noted....and this is just a theory....there has been a run of pictures lately which have included GFs, kids and miscellaneous Darwin candidates. If the site management perceives that such shots....staged or not...are upstaging more artful, well-planned, or technically difficult shots, they may have decided to put some brakes on. I personally had a shot that included some kids rejected last week as PEQ. I suspect that the Screener was unfamiliar with the facility at which the photo was taken and probably mistook it for something other than a RR museum. It was accepted on appeal, when I explained what was really going on in the scene.
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Old 04-12-2010, 04:51 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by KevinM View Post
Here's the thing. With a PEQ, your only real option is to appeal. Since the Screener didn't cite any technical problems with shot, there's nothing you can correct. He's basically telling you: "We don't want stuff like this". Only his "bosses" can override his decision. If you just re-upload it, it will probably not be well-received. The Screeners can see your previous rejections. CK has made that pretty clear.

As previously noted....and this is just a theory....there has been a run of pictures lately which have included GFs, kids and miscellaneous Darwin candidates. If the site management perceives that such shots....staged or not...are upstaging more artful, well-planned, or technically difficult shots, they may have decided to put some brakes on. I personally had a shot that included some kids rejected last week as PEQ. I suspect that the Screener was unfamiliar with the facility at which the photo was taken and probably mistook it for something other than a RR museum. It was accepted on appeal, when I explained what was really going on in the scene.
I thought appeals went to the screeners again and it is best to wait a bit to appeal to have a different screener review the appeal. Should I try appealing this explainging that she was looking down the track and didn't realize this train was coming up on her running wrong direction?
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Old 04-12-2010, 05:12 PM   #10
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I like this shot, maybe cropped tighter.

Doyle Massey

Quote:
Originally Posted by pderekh View Post
here's the second reject shot

http://www.railpictures.net/viewreje...&key=498632086

I cropped this one tighter, too. have feeling this will get the distortion effect reject
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Old 04-12-2010, 05:18 PM   #11
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I thought appeals went to the screeners again and it is best to wait a bit to appeal to have a different screener review the appeal. Should I try appealing this explainging that she was looking down the track and didn't realize this train was coming up on her running wrong direction?
My understanding is that a) appeals go to one of Chris K and Chris S, not the other three screeners, and b) the appeal always goes to someone different - the original screener is never the one evaluating the appeal.
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Old 04-12-2010, 05:46 PM   #12
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My understanding is that a) appeals go to one of Chris K and Chris S, not the other three screeners, and b) the appeal always goes to someone different - the original screener is never the one evaluating the appeal.
That is my understanding also. Chris Kilroy has stated here in the forums that he and Chris Starnes review all appeals.

WRT the shot in question Paul, since the rejection reason is PEQ, you would need to make the case as to why the shot merits inclusion in the data base. In my view, the only case that can be made is that images of this sort have been included in the past. Consistency would dictate that this one also be considered, provided that there are no technical problems with it. Remember however, that the site doesn't have to be consistent if they don't want to. RP is a privately owned business. If they're simply tired of seeing Darwin candidates, women's behinds, legs etc. on their homepage, they can elect to say "enough".
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Old 04-12-2010, 05:49 PM   #13
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That is my understanding also. Chris Kilroy has stated here in the forums that he and Chris Starnes review all appeals.

WRT the shot in question Paul, since the rejection reason is PEQ, you would need to make the case as to why the shot merits inclusion in the data base. In my view, the only case that can be made is that images of this sort have been included in the past. Consistency would dictate that this one also be considered, provided that there are no technical problems with it. Remember however, that the site doesn't have to be consistent if they don't want to. RP is a privately owned business. If they're simply tired of seeing Darwin candidates, women's behinds, legs etc. on their homepage, they can elect to say "enough".
thanks for the advice
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Old 04-12-2010, 06:19 PM   #14
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Paul, I love the body language in the second shot but not so much the composition, so I decided to do some playing with the first recrop version. There is a shot in there I'm sure. I wish I could figure out how to add photos from my computer drive to a post which would make things much easier to explain than with only words, but I can't so here goes. I set my cropping tool to 8 X 10 (4 X 5... whatever). Using the first recrop's bottom left corner as a starting point, I drew up and to the right until just before the crossing signal and cropped to there. You lose the top of the signal bridge but it doesn't affect the overall outcome IMO. What you now have is the main and secondary points-of-interest no longer centered, and you lose all the clutter to the right (since the second girl got cut off in the recrop, everything else over there was just visual distraction). As for a heat distortion reject, the only time I have ever got one was if there was heat rising in front of the locomotive (or other point-of-interest) like from ballast heating up in the morning sun after a cool night. Heat rising from the loco only accentuates the beauty of a big machine doing what it's supposed to - hard work! Check these examples from John Rice and Dave Brook to see what I mean;
Image © John Rice
PhotoID: 177880
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Image © David L. Brook
PhotoID: 179594
Photograph © David L. Brook

Anyways, you could try the recrop as mentioned and make a note to the screener with the explanation that she was caught off-guard. Mention also that you changed up the composition a bit and see if it flies. If it comes back still as PEQ, then you might want to try the appeal process. As for the argument that there have been too many girlz 'n' trainz shots lately, I personally don't have any problems with that, and I think this one is one of the best in that it tells an interesting story in a dramatic fashion.
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Old 04-12-2010, 06:37 PM   #15
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What you now have is the main and secondary points-of-interest no longer centered, and you lose all the clutter to the right (since the second girl got cut off in the recrop, everything else over there was just visual distraction). As for a heat distortion reject, the only time I have ever got one was if there was heat rising in front of the locomotive (or other point-of-interest) like from ballast heating up in the morning sun after a cool night. Heat rising from the loco only accentuates the beauty of a big machine doing what it's supposed to - hard work! Check these examples from John Rice and Dave Brook to see what I mean;
Image © John Rice
PhotoID: 177880
Photograph © John Rice

Image © David L. Brook
PhotoID: 179594
Photograph © David L. Brook

Anyways, you could try the recrop as mentioned and make a note to the screener with the explanation that she was caught off-guard. Mention also that you changed up the composition a bit and see if it flies. If it comes back still as PEQ, then you might want to try the appeal process. As for the argument that there have been too many girlz 'n' trainz shots lately, I personally don't have any problems with that, and I think this one is one of the best in that it tells an interesting story in a dramatic fashion.
got the surprised girl in!
Image © Paul Hoffmann
PhotoID: 320571
Photograph © Paul Hoffmann


I had a shot of this one with the train further back that I liked better, but got the heat distortion reject. I had the attached and even one further back that distorted the signals less.

Image © Paul Hoffmann
PhotoID: 312634
Photograph © Paul Hoffmann


This is n't the first time I've gotten a PEQ reject accepted with some adjusting. I'm amazed at the difference between PEQ and interesting!

thanks for everyone's help!
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Old 04-12-2010, 07:13 PM   #16
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TopOfLast24, here we come!
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Old 04-12-2010, 07:53 PM   #17
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TopOfLast24, here we come!
Artistics merits be darned tonight, there's a girl in it.

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Old 04-12-2010, 09:02 PM   #18
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Artistics merits be darned tonight, there's a girl in it.
That worked out pretty well for someone last week
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Old 04-12-2010, 09:23 PM   #19
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That's a far better-than-average Darwin shot. Her body language screams, "OH S**T!" and you snagged it nicely. Nice job...
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Old 04-12-2010, 11:01 PM   #20
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There's the next Tof24...

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Old 04-12-2010, 11:05 PM   #21
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There's the next Tof24...

Chase
Don't be too sure! This one just launched like an SA-2 and is streaking toward the top!

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Now, we'll get to see what gets the foamers foaming more: Skin or metal? It shouldn't even be close.....but then, that's why they call 'em foamers!
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Old 04-12-2010, 11:24 PM   #22
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Don't be too sure! This one just launched like an SA-2 and is streaking toward the top!
And only 19 min after this cautionary note, Paul's is #1 for last 24!

If Brad's shot had actually involved "streaking" maybe there would have been a contest ...
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Old 04-12-2010, 11:32 PM   #23
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And only 19 min after this cautionary note, Paul's is #1 for last 24!

If Brad's shot had actually involved "streaking" maybe there would have been a contest ...
If Brad made a mistake, it was not uploading his shot 3 hrs earlier....or 24 hrs later! Agree that it will never catch Paul's shot now that his is on the home page, but I would have loved to see a heads-up drag race between the two. The results would have been very interesting.
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Old 04-12-2010, 11:38 PM   #24
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This is just a wild guess, but it is possible that one or more Screeners may have tired of the "woman in the shot" genre or the "Darwin candidate" genre, and this shot appears to be a combination of the two.
So should I bother to submit this?



She actually waited until she saw the train coming around the curve to lean forward and put the coin on the track...and that Amtrak was going no less than 70 mph. Needless to say, the engineer was laying on the horn.
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Old 04-12-2010, 11:45 PM   #25
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So should I bother to submit this?



She actually waited until she saw the train coming around the curve to lean forward and put the coin on the track...and that Amtrak was going no less than 70 mph. Needless to say, the engineer was laying on the horn.
Tomorrow, Jim. Wait until tomorrow!
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