Old 03-27-2021, 02:34 PM   #1
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Default Blurry rejection

https://www.railpictures.net/viewrej...13&key=5325293

This is the second photo now that I first submitted and received a undersharpened reject, sharpen it up and receive a blurry reject. It was shot in perfect light at ISO 100 and a 1/800 shutter speed. Itís a d3000 I just inherited and am still learning, what am I doing wrong..
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Old 03-27-2021, 03:21 PM   #2
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Even with a D3000 you could go to ISO 200 and double the shutter speed. No idea of train speed here but the less the train is head on the more critical the shutter speed. Sharpening rejection followed by blurry is common for me. Also seems a little bright and could use more contrast? And a little different crop. Some people here are very discerning on blurry, which I often don't see. Sharp as a tack is not the most important part of an image to me.

As an add-on I'll throw mine also moving across the frame, with the light I was limited but photo was well accepted by less discerning.

Bob

https://www.railpictures.net/viewrej...64&key=7039163
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Old 03-27-2021, 03:26 PM   #3
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The train was going like 10mph . I’m tempted to try a whole different edit and resubmit but I’m already down to 1 submission a day and am afraid of getting banned or something..

Last edited by RCH022; 03-27-2021 at 03:31 PM.
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Old 03-27-2021, 03:32 PM   #4
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The train was going like 10mph
Well, wait for some better ideas???

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Old 03-27-2021, 04:07 PM   #5
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Hand held? I'd suggest using a tripod, which will eliminate any camera movement during the shot.

Also, I'd suggest taking control of what's most important - controlling blur (by controlling shutter speed) and controlling depth of field (by controlling f-stop). Which means using "auto ISO" and allowing ISO to "float." "Base" ISO is nice for pictures of stationary objects, but that doesn't help with photos of moving subjects.

I don't know what lens you're using, but that may come into play also - for deep depth of field for train photos, you probably want to shoot at f/8 on APS-C in general, however with a "broadside" shot like the one you presented here, you could use less depth of field and it would be fine. However, if you're using a slow zoom whose maximum f/stop is only f/5.6, then you'll probably want to go to f/8 to get better lens performance anyway.

I tend to use a 1/1000th shutter speed as a general rule, and bump it up some for "broadside" shots if train speeds are fairly high. Here you say it's going about 10mph; to put that in perspective, the train will move nearly 15 feet (14.67 feet) per second at 10mph, so it has moved a bit less than 2/10 of an inch during your 1/800th of a second exposure. That shouldn't introduce too much blur, so I'm thinking you might be jabbing at the shutter a bit and introducing camera movement (back to my first suggestion, use a tripod).

The version you've shown looks oversharpened, which introduces some "halo" effects and tends to make things look worse instead of better. What did your original submitted edit look like?

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Old 03-27-2021, 04:19 PM   #6
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What did your original submitted edit look like?
https://www.railpictures.net/viewrej...56&key=4848829
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Old 03-27-2021, 11:35 PM   #7
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Looks better! I'd darken the highlights and/or boost the contrast some, since imo it's a bit washed out; that will probably make it look somewhat "sharper" too, as a bonus.

Were you shooting RAW or JPEG? Sometimes the camera's JPEG noise reduction can blur detail too. I'd recommend shooting RAW and then processing to your taste for optimal results.

I'd also check where your focus point was; if you look at the photo on Nikon's software like View NX, you should be able to turn on a setting that reveals where the focus point was when the image was taken. You might find you didn't have it on the train, which will (unless it's on something else about the same distance from the camera) also result in lack of sharpness on your subject. You may also find, depending on what autofocus settings you use, that the particular frame didn't lock focus at all (no focus point displayed).

One of the best ways to "drive" your camera (as opposed to the other way around) is to de-couple the autofocus from the shutter release, by setting the AE/AF Lock button to "AF-ON." This means the shutter release just releases the shutter, it is no longer how autofocus is initiated. By using a "continuous" autofocus mode with "back button" autofocus, you can achieve the function of both "locked" autofocus (focus where you want, then release the button; focus remains where it was and then you can shoot images focused on that point) or "continuous" autofocus (press and hold the "back button," and the camera will continue to focus while you shoot), all without menu diving and clunky "focus, then press the "lock" button, then shoot" procedures.

Sometimes what works best is to set up your shot ahead of the train's arrival (hence another reason to use a tripod) and "pre-focus" the shot using something that will approximate a similar distance to subject (like, in the shot you've shown, if you can get it that precise, the rail on the track you expect a train on, or the ballast on the track, or the bridge it is crossing, etc.). Then you won't be at the mercy of autofocus "algorithms" bouncing your focus point around when you take the shot.

You can download the camera manual (if you didn't get a copy) and the software (if you didn't get the disc) here:

https://downloadcenter.nikonimglib.c.../18/D3000.html
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Old 03-28-2021, 01:22 AM   #8
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While xBNSFer may complain about the screeners without having a single photo on RP, I have found most rejections that I receive expose technical errors that I have overlooked and it helps me to improve.

In this case, I doubt that shutter speed is an issue. Very few of the slides that I have posted on this site were taken with a shutter speed faster than 1/250, and your setting of 1/800 should be overkill for a 10 mph train. xBNSFer may be correct about just not being focused on the correct spot, but if not, I suggest that you take some test photos and see if the focus is consistently soft. You may have a lens calibration issue. I bought a relatively pricey 150-600mm lens for my D750, and I was unhappy with the results. After doing some research, I found that the focus points of the camera and the lens may not match and need to be calibrated. The lens came with a USB interface, and I bought a calibration pyramid and made some tweaks myself. It's a tedious process, and I would recommend surrendering your body and lens to a camera shop that will calibrate it for you. I moved to your area about a year ago, and was prepared to have someone do it if I was unsuccessful. Perfect Image Camera in Lancaster calibrates lenses, but I would call to make sure they can help
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Old 03-28-2021, 02:02 AM   #9
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Were you shooting RAW or JPEG?
JPEG, also noticed I have the noise reduction setting ON which may be causing issues. Looks like I really need to learn the ins and outs of this camera before I can expect decent results. After all it is my first dslr. An issue with the focus also might be causing me problems. That picture was shot at 18mm using the 3D auto focus mode. Also Doug mentioned a calibration issue, hopefully itís not too expensive as I got the camera and lenses for virtually nothing haha, either way I may have to look into that. And welcome to the area!
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Old 03-28-2021, 02:24 AM   #10
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JPEG, also noticed I have the noise reduction setting ON which may be causing issues. Looks like I really need to learn the ins and outs of this camera before I can expect decent results. After all it is my first dslr. An issue with the focus also might be causing me problems. That picture was shot at 18mm using the 3D auto focus mode. Also Doug mentioned a calibration issue, hopefully itís not too expensive as I got the camera and lenses for virtually nothing haha, either way I may have to look into that. And welcome to the area!
If it is a calibration issue, and it probably is not if you have other settings to explore, Perfect Image advertises a $39.95 price for this service.

If you really want to learn the ins and outs of your camera, there is a book called, "Mastering the Nikon D3000" that will answer every question that you may have. The one for the D750 has been an invaluable reference for me in learning my first DSLR after over 40 years of using a manual film camera.
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Old 03-28-2021, 12:36 PM   #11
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Out of curiosity, what is your process to sharpen and resize your images for RP? I’m wondering if the method of resize you’ve used is the culprit, more than anything else. Also, perhaps you are using too large of a “radius” when sharpening.

Are you able to add a link to the original photo, straight out of camera? Perhaps we could tell more, and, possibly, give better suggestions on post production technique.

Benjamin
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Old 03-28-2021, 02:41 PM   #12
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A good idea in any problem is to start with the simplest first.
There is a factory reset to set all camera setting to original settings.
You can look in the manual if not sure what they mean or just google it.
I'd then go through all settings, making sure you are on RAW or finest jpg.
As you noted turning off in camera noise reduction.
Also 3d auto can be with tracking which is not necessary even tho it should work but depending on other setting the camera can fire while not focused.
This shouldn't be a focus problem since at 18mm it should be at infinity.
I'd use the simplest focus method, no tracking. I use a single point trying to find a fixed object near the primary subject, like the bridge.

You are fairly close to a subject moving across the frame but 800 or 500 should be plenty.

I see you have other images already post so assume you know processing but don't overcrop and save at highest image quality, I use smart sharpen in PS.

Also, when I get a new camera I go out in the yard or on the street and shoot some, look at them critically pixel peeping a little.

I really don't think any advanced techniques are necessary for this type of shots.

Bob

As far as shooting technique, you can google that, ie holding breath bracing etc.
Oh and clean lens, smile.

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Old 03-28-2021, 06:13 PM   #13
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I definitely would not spend any additional effort working on this particular image. Just looking around at all of the elements, nothing is sharp and I don't think that any amount of post-processing is going to fix that. Further submissions of that image might get you banned....and let's not do that.

As others have noted, shooting a relatively slow-moving train (I think you said 15 mph) at 1/800th should have been more than enough to freeze the action. Just based on that, I think something else is wrong. Before going any farther with RP....meaning don't submit anything else for now....you will need to do some controlled experiments to see if your equipment is functioning properly.

Do you have a tripod and remote release? If so, start by taking some non-railroad pictures at your home. Put the camera on a tripod. Put it in MANUAL mode. Get a white piece of paper with some sharp text on it and mount it someplace as a target in a spot that is hopefully well-lighted. Make sure the AF switch on the lens is set to "M/A" (meaning auto-focus with manual override). Put your auto-focus spot on a contrasty spot on the border of the black text on the white paper. AF is designed to detect contrast. Set your aperture to f/5.6 or f/8, set your ISO to 200 and select a shutter speed that gives you a decent exposure. A little dark is better than a little bright. Shoot some pictures of that and look at them at 100%. If you are shooting a stationary target, with a tripod-mounted camera, you take shutter speed out of the analysis. What you need to find out is whether or not your auto-focus is nailing the target and whether or not your lens can focus sharply.

If the text in the resulting pictures is not tack-sharp, and you are shooting a D3000 with a G-series DX lens, you likely have either an auto-focus or lens issue. That could still be either in the camera body or the lens. Borrowing and trying another Nikon lens might help determine which it is. Obviously, if you substitute another lens and it works great, then the issue is in your lens.

Assuming you have all of the switches in the right positions and you are still getting blurry photos, you may need to ship the camera and lens to Nikon for evaluation and service. I would call them first and discuss the problem with them. See what they recommend. AF and VR systems on lenses do wear out, even on expensive, pro lenses. The repair could cost $300 - $500, depending on what's wrong. I doubt that any of that stuff is still under warranty, so you'll be on the hook for the cost, but Nikon does do a good job with repairs. I would go to them before I would go to an independent camera shop.

Do some experiments. Let us know the results. If you can at least get sharp pictures with a stationary camera, shooting a stationary target, that will be progress.

Good luck!!
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Old 03-28-2021, 06:21 PM   #14
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While xBNSFer may complain about the screeners without having a single photo on RP, I have found most rejections that I receive expose technical errors that I have overlooked and it helps me to improve.
C'mon Doug, was that little dig really called for? If you go back to the top of this thread and read all of my responses, I haven't said a thing about the RP screeners in this discussion. Not a one.

I have no pics on RP because I choose not to. You can see my pics here, if you're interested:

https://richardbischoff.smugmug.com/

Just trying to be helpful to the OP.
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Old 03-28-2021, 10:44 PM   #15
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C'mon Doug, was that little dig really called for? If you go back to the top of this thread and read all of my responses, I haven't said a thing about the RP screeners in this discussion. Not a one.

I have no pics on RP because I choose not to. You can see my pics here, if you're interested:

https://richardbischoff.smugmug.com/

Just trying to be helpful to the OP.
It wasn't intended as a dig, but I do not understand comments about the screeners with no basis of experience. For the record you did comment in another thread within minutes of a post here, and I should have replied in that thread.

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I can't stand the narrow-minded view of this site's "screeners," so I just don't bother.
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Old 03-29-2021, 05:50 AM   #16
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Out of curiosity, what is your process to sharpen and resize your images for RP? Iím wondering if the method of resize youíve used is the culprit, more than anything else. Also, perhaps you are using too large of a ďradiusĒ when sharpening.

Are you able to add a link to the original photo, straight out of camera?

Benjamin
I was almost scared this question would come up out of embarrassment, but coming back from a 15 year break from photography Iím working with what Iíve got...As of now All of my editing is done on the iPhone default photo edit app as I do not own a PC at the moment (millennials I know), and as far as i know you canít do any selective sharpening. And I use an app called ďimage sizeĒ to get it down to RP specs. That picture was taken on the ďmedium sizeĒ setting in the camera, was wondering if changing to small would be better since less of a downsize. As far as a link to the original, no. I could email it to someone Iíd theyíre that interested.
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Old 03-29-2021, 11:41 AM   #17
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I was almost scared this question would come up out of embarrassment, but coming back from a 15 year break from photography Iím working with what Iíve got...As of now All of my editing is done on the iPhone default photo edit app as I do not own a PC at the moment (millennials I know), and as far as i know you canít do any selective sharpening. And I use an app called ďimage sizeĒ to get it down to RP specs. That picture was taken on the ďmedium sizeĒ setting in the camera, was wondering if changing to small would be better since less of a downsize. As far as a link to the original, no. I could email it to someone Iíd theyíre that interested.
There are lots of tutorials online.
As Kevin mentioned, time to forget about that photo?
but if you want email me on RP's and i will send

Selective sharpening should not be needed for a basic imag
Camera setting as I noted earlier should always be at Maximum jpg size when posting to a site like this
Saving should be done at max quality.

But I am interested in you workflow, you upload from your camera to you phone? By what method? Is the full sized image transferred?

Bob
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Old 03-29-2021, 12:33 PM   #18
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But I am interested in you workflow, you upload from your camera to you phone? By what method? Is the full sized image transferred?

Bob
Pop out the SD card into a reader that plugs directly to iPhone, as far as I know yes the full size image is uploaded. Half of my issue I believe is trying to edit on an iPhone screen, because I see minimal quality difference from my picture compared to others from that same location. My wife does have an iPad so I can use that to edit from here on out. Thank you guys for the quick and detailed replies!
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Old 03-29-2021, 02:02 PM   #19
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Pop out the SD card into a reader that plugs directly to iPhone, as far as I know yes the full size image is uploaded. Half of my issue I believe is trying to edit on an iPhone screen, because I see minimal quality difference from my picture compared to others from that same location. My wife does have an iPad so I can use that to edit from here on out. Thank you guys for the quick and detailed replies!

Hmmm. Just a suggestion..... I would not upload anything else to RP until you get a decent screen and some software on which to edit. On something as small as an iPhone screen, you're not going to be able to see enough detail to be sure the image quality is good. And honestly, the image quality in that shot we've been discussing is BAD. That's why I've recommended you put that one aside. RP is not the place to experiment with a "Rube Goldberg" process. Your time here could easily be over before you ever get it figured out. You need the right tools. The tools don't have to be expensive, but they need at least some minimal capability to be successful.

Issues like the ones this image has can be caused by a variety of things, including post-processing issues such as resizing. But again, before we address that, let's make sure the camera and lens are functioning properly.....and that you are using them properly. Again, take some pictures around your home under controlled conditions. Shooting a page with good, contrasty text on it is best, because it makes it easy for you to recognize whether or not the image is sharp. Shoot in good light, so you can use a high shutter speed, a low ISO (200 is perfect), and a decent aperture of 5.6 to 8. If you don't have a decent computer screen on which to edit, you can still examine your images on the camera's LCD. After you take the shot, and the image is visible on the LCD, look for the "+" button on the back of the camera. That will "zoom" in on the image. Press that button until it won't zoom any more. That's 100% magnification. Use the joystick to pan and scroll. Look at the borders of the text. If it has a solid, sharp edge, that's good. If not, we still have some detective work to do.

What lens are you using? Hopefully, a G-series lens. I don't think the D3000 has the AF drive for the D-series lenses. Have you made sure that all of the switches on the left side of that lens are in the correct positions?

As others have said, if you are shooting JPEG, always make sure you using LARGE and FINE. None of the other JPEG settings are good for any serious work. Don't use them.
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Old 03-29-2021, 02:45 PM   #20
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Are you able to add a link to the original photo, straight out of camera? Perhaps we could tell more, and, possibly, give better suggestions on post production technique.
Click image for larger version

Name:	6242BFAC-0A25-42BA-B583-10B0D7E63497.jpg
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Size:	62.6 KB
ID:	9879 straight out of the camera
Edit: not sure if that showed up properly, I can even tell the image is poor by looking at it on iPhone
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Old 03-29-2021, 02:50 PM   #21
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What lens are you using? Hopefully, a G-series lens. I don't think the D3000 has the AF drive for the D-series lenses.
The bridge shot was taken with an 18-55mm Nikon dx VR lens at 18mm with the vr switch on. Iím also 99% sure this is the lens that the original owner got with the camera. I also have a Nikon dx 55-200mm lens
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Old 03-29-2021, 02:55 PM   #22
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Hmmm. Just a suggestion..... I would not upload anything else to RP until you get a decent screen and some software on which to edit.
While I agree with that sentiment, this picture was shot and edited entirely on an iPhone 11. Accepted first try

https://www.railpictures.net/photo/765370/

Which brings me back to my thread I previously made about iPhone vs d3000 and I’m wondering if I should just stick to iPhone until I can grab a better dslr, as some even argued the d3000 was literally the worst dslr Nikon ever made

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Old 03-29-2021, 03:14 PM   #23
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Attachment 9879 straight out of the camera
Edit: not sure if that showed up properly, I can even tell the image is poor by looking at it on iPhone
Quality issues aside, that out of camera crop is much more pleasing in my opinion, where the train is not being cut off by the edge of the frame at left.
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Old 03-29-2021, 03:16 PM   #24
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Quality issues aside, that out of camera crop is much more pleasing in my opinion, where the train is not being cut off by the edge of the frame at left.
I somewhat agree, I just didnít like that shadow from the bridge I was standing on for whatever reason haha
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Old 03-29-2021, 03:23 PM   #25
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While I agree with that sentiment, this picture was shot and edited entirely on an iPhone 11. Accepted first try

https://www.railpictures.net/photo/765370/

Which brings me back to my thread I previously made about iPhone vs d3000 and Iím wondering if I should just stick to iPhone until I can grab a better dslr, as some even argued the d3000 was literally the worst dslr Nikon ever made

OK, I see the angry face on the last post, so I will excuse myself from this discussion. I only come here to be helpful. Just please use caution. Folks do get banned here, and unfortunately, that's generally a permanent deal.
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