Old 12-15-2020, 06:51 AM   #1
Micha01
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Hello all,

seems as Jean Marc Frybourg did leave Railpictures.net. Does anyone know more, or where he post his Pictures now?
thanky in nadvance

Micha
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Old 12-15-2020, 02:48 PM   #2
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Sure appears that way.....
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Old 12-15-2020, 03:03 PM   #3
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Not of his own volition. Those who've followed the unfortunate saga concerning this particular user over the past half a decade can read into that what you will.
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Old 12-15-2020, 06:59 PM   #4
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I can see the albums now showing as being from "RP Archives" so I'm curious if his photos are retained on the site or not.
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Old 12-16-2020, 04:52 AM   #5
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How am I going to know if I posted the same photo twice? As much as I check before I post, a number have been posted more than once. JMF caught every single one.
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Old 12-16-2020, 11:09 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by ATSF666 View Post
How am I going to know if I posted the same photo twice? As much as I check before I post, a number have been posted more than once. JMF caught every single one.
That album convinced me that he either had a memory like Marilu Henner, or way too much time on his hands. Several of his albums were passive-aggressive demonstrations of accepted photos that may not have followed the literal interpretation of rejection criteria. He had received that rejection in one or more submissions (like we all have), and wanted to prove that he was unfairly treated, even though he had thousands of accepted photos on the site. He seemed to be obsessed with proving that everything that he submitted should be accepted and popular here, with no regard that being called out in those albums or passed in view counts by bots could be offensive to the photographers that he called out or edged out of TO24.

It's a shame, because he does have a nice body of work,
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Old 12-16-2020, 11:14 AM   #7
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Deleted - duplicate.
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Old 12-16-2020, 11:40 AM   #8
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IMHO a total ban is overly harsh.
Surely there could be some sort of restriction short of a ban!

Last edited by miningcamper3; 12-16-2020 at 11:41 AM. Reason: punctuation
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Old 12-16-2020, 01:44 PM   #9
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IMHO a total ban is overly harsh.
Surely there could be some sort of restriction short of a ban!
IIRC, several restrictions were imposed leading up to this.

In business, often no customer is a better alternative to a bad customer.
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Old 12-16-2020, 02:07 PM   #10
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In business, often no customer is a better alternative to a bad customer.
BUT... lots of us RP customers like his photos! How many of us actually care about JMF's squabbles with admin???

Personally, I'd love to see the whole JMF lot on Flickr (just 47 there as I type this).
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Old 12-16-2020, 08:50 PM   #11
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A website is only as good as its members content. It is very sad (and frustrating) to see his departure. I agree with miningcamper - how many viewers actually care about JMF's squabbles - the Forums, incidentally are not like they were in the past, now with only a handful of participants. I believe there are two kinds of people that complain here - those that are immature, and those like Jean-Marc, that see the potential of this site enough to try to improve it. You have to really like something to "complain" as much he did.

Glad the albums remain, and, like Doug, I am at a loss to figure out how he tracked images so well. Maybe he should've been a screener.

I'd love to see this site migrate to featuring the Best Photographers on the Net vs the Best Photography on the Net. I'm all for a reviewed site with rejections, but after a few hundred images and a few years on RP, sometimes a photographer can develop his or her own "brand" which makes non-technical rejections very frustrating. Issues similar to the music industry, where some bands were basically denied some of their artistic expressions. Of course, I am not talking about breaking hard rules (manipulation, illustrations, unlevel, poor contrast, poor light without intent, ect...).

Not sure how many if any "warnings" Jean-Marc got, but seems drastic to erase his presence here, vs, say a 30 day suspension or something similar. Wish him the best of luck. No doubt his portfolio will be shared elsewhere, but searching through it with the ease here at RP will be sorely missed. As will the positive aspects of his participation on RP.

C'est la Vie.

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Old 12-16-2020, 09:46 PM   #12
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I worked at a small mail order auto parts for many years and had to put up with a lot so patience is a virture. However, I always remember when I started there was note on a customers ledger sheet(remember those???) the old time boss wrote.

"One More Beef Shuts him up" At some point enough is enough.

I don't know whose choice it was to eliminate his collection but today I am overwhelmed with content. Magazines I still get, stuff people send me, facebook, railpics. If I am short of things to do I have books I haven't looked at in years, I just got a historical book on the LA & SL which could occupy a week so if some fuurrin stuff disappears???? The saying goes don't let the door........

As far as Flick, unless it is of special interest, flickr is a rabbit hole I stay out of.

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Old 12-16-2020, 09:58 PM   #13
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Not sure how many if any "warnings" Jean-Marc got, but seems drastic to erase his presence here, vs, say a 30 day suspension or something similar. Wish him the best of luck. No doubt his portfolio will be shared elsewhere, but searching through it with the ease here at RP will be sorely missed. As will the positive aspects of his participation on RP.

C'est la Vie.

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Hi Mitch,

I deleted my original response....

Look at it this way.... You publish a popular magazine. The magazine showcases photos and while anyone can contribute photos, you make it clear that you have quality guidelines, and that you exercise editorial license in accepting images for publication. Your contributors know going in that the only compensation they'll get is the exposure their work will get in a well-read magazine.

One of your contributors sends a lot of high quality photos that meet your standards and draw lots of readership. Unfortunately, he also has photos that for one reason or another, you don't want to publish. He is adamant that you shouldn't have the final say what goes into your magazine, despite the fact that you pay all of the publishing costs. Over several years, he campaigns this view both privately and publicly.....incessantly. He even criticizes your approach up and down in your own Op-Ed page, and you allow his opinion to be heard. Later, he undertakes to electronically alter certain aspects of your content without your consent and you discover this quite accidentally. You expose what he's doing publicly, but he's unapologetic and the harassment campaign just goes on. He basically makes one giant PITA of himself.

Just how long do let the shenanigans continue, before you finally decide that you don't care how good his photos might be, the crap you have to put up with to get them is just not worth it?

Based on Chris' short post earlier in this thread, the departure of this contributor was not over a basic, gentlemanly disagreement over what constitutes quality photography, and I don't think that anyone should feel sorry for the contributor for being banned. He had all of the opportunity in the world to just back off, relax, and enjoy all of the exposure his photos were getting, and feel good about the enjoyment that others were getting from seeing them.
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Old 12-17-2020, 03:07 AM   #14
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...what goes into your magazine, despite the fact that you pay all of the publishing costs...
Let's not forget that it's a two-way street.

Sure there are publishing costs, but getting 99%+ of your content contributed for free by others sounds like a pretty good deal!
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Old 12-17-2020, 03:16 AM   #15
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As far as Flick, unless it is of special interest, flickr is a rabbit hole I stay out of.
No more work posting there than posting here. And despite the staggering number of photos there, the view count is great! (Great as in "more than here"!)

EDIT: Your mileage may vary!

Last edited by miningcamper3; 12-17-2020 at 12:19 PM. Reason: addition
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Old 12-17-2020, 03:41 AM   #16
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Let's not forget that it's a two-way street.

Sure there are publishing costs, but getting 99%+ of your content contributed for free by others sounds like a pretty good deal!
It's basically what the biology majors would call, a "symbiotic" relationship. The site owners are running an on-line photo gallery. They get advertising income and we get free exposure on the most heavily viewed, rail-related site on the internet.....the well-read magazine I spoke of. We all know the deal going in. I don't shoot professionally and I don't post here looking for business.....but this site has brought business my way and made it well worth the effort to post pictures here.

As noted, I think the fellow who got banned had ample opportunity to back away from his long-term conflict with the site and just enjoy the publicity and admiration that his portfolio was getting here. He had to know that by continuing beat up the owners, they would eventually tell him to take his ball and go home. He clearly didn't care about how much the viewers here might miss his stuff. So why should anyone feel sorry for him?
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Old 12-17-2020, 03:43 AM   #17
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No more work posting there than posting here. And despite the staggering number of photos there, the view count is great! (Great as in "more than here"!)
I would love to know the secret to get looks on Flickr. I post there and the views are nothing like what they are here. If there's a magic formula, I haven't figured it out yet.
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Old 12-17-2020, 04:51 AM   #18
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I would love to know the secret to get looks on Flickr. I post there and the views are nothing like what they are here. If there's a magic formula, I haven't figured it out yet.
You link to FB, of course...

The same "games" and loop holes here exist there - perhaps even worse.

I've noted some photographers would not even consider a post on FLICKR without a mandatory link from FB.

I've seen people reply "Thanks" to every single comment they get - INDIVIDUALLY - just to make it look like they have received more comments - aka; double. I assume that makes the photos more "relevant" when searching.

The worse offenders will use keywords that have nothing to do with their posted image. That way a search will yield more views, even though the results often can have no connection to the photo. Others have a group keyword list that never changes - an Amtrak photo with keywords; Amtrak, SEPTA, Conrail, Silver, NEC, Keystone, Penn Central, Acela, Reading, MU, Diesel all used as keywords for a photo of the nose of an Acela. And then there are those that add "Acela" as keyword because that's how they got to the Zoo in Washington DC where the search shows a zebra.

FLICKR - if you know where to look, and who to look for, you can eventually find great photos.

I think that is the reason JMF hoped to effect change here on RP. There's just no other site offering the same set of features. It's hard to accept rules when they are seemingly different for others as he opined via his albums and to respect a system based on views when the views are often artificially enhanced.

As for FLICKR - I haven't updated my FLICKR portfolio in years - it's there so I can be found.

/Mitch

Last edited by Mgoldman; 12-17-2020 at 05:20 AM.
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Old 12-17-2020, 04:55 AM   #19
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Lol - I forgot... another way to get more views on FLICKR is to... you guessed it, continue the campaign by trying to get your images included in other people's albums. The albums on FLICKR are much worse than some of the albums on RP, which some, by the way are very good. But FLICKR albums like "Great Pics", or "Best Trains"... and the pics in those FLICKR albums? Often CRAP. Not always, but often.

So - if you want to "enjoy" this hobby more, GET TO WORK.

/Mitch
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Old 12-17-2020, 11:09 AM   #20
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I didn't know anything about the behind the scenes drama. But he was absolutely my favorite railpictures photographer. His pan shots are what got me interested in attempting pans myself. I'll have to search him out on Flickr.
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Old 12-17-2020, 12:18 PM   #21
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I would love to know the secret to get looks on Flickr. I post there and the views are nothing like what they are here. If there's a magic formula, I haven't figured it out yet.
While Mitch has listed all the nefarious ways to get views on Flickr, I think that he severely overvalues these as a way to get views. There's no TO24, so what's the point of heavily campaigning other than pure exposure? Having a photo explored certainly takes the view count to another level, but I can't determine the criteria to get explored. I've had about ten images explored, and a few of them are throwaways, including one that I didn't even consider for RP.

While there are some groups, like a local Lancaster County group, where I regularly post non-RR shots that I take. I also will add photos to groups when I am invited to, but I don't actively seek to use this "linking" method that Mitch describes. With that said, my average view count is better than half of what it is at RP, and I get many more faves and comments than I do on RP.

My advice for getting people to see your images is networking. If no one has you in their photo stream, you won't get views. When someone follows you, check their "About" page and see if you like their work. If you do, follow them. I also built my contacts by checking who a photographer I admired followed. You could use Mike Danneman or Erik Lindgren, for instance. Check their lists for like-minded photographers, and follow the ones that you like. Your exposure will increase quite a bit as more people "discover" you.
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Old 12-17-2020, 12:54 PM   #22
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Having a photo explored certainly takes the view count to another level, but I can't determine the criteria to get explored.

Explore had deteriorated so much that it wasn't worth a look. Then SmugMug announced that it was changing the criteria. They didn't say what was changing, but the improvement was dramatic! Of course some junk still gets on, just like almost everywhere on the 'net, but it's a great way to find some excellent photostreams. Just mostly not train stuff.
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Old 12-17-2020, 01:28 PM   #23
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Having a photo explored certainly takes the view count to another level, but I can't determine the criteria to get explored.
You are right about that. I have had a few photos tagged by Explore and it sure did drive up the views, the likes and the comments. As with you, I have not been able to figure out HOW or WHY photos get picked up by Explore.

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My advice for getting people to see your images is networking. If no one has you in their photo stream, you won't get views. When someone follows you, check their "About" page and see if you like their work. If you do, follow them. I also built my contacts by checking who a photographer I admired followed. You could use Mike Danneman or Erik Lindgren, for instance. Check their lists for like-minded photographers, and follow the ones that you like. Your exposure will increase quite a bit as more people "discover" you.
Yes, I generally do follow just about anybody who shoots the kind of subjects that I do, such as the guys you mention. But that generally occurs when I discover that someone is following me and I see the subjects they shoot. I guess I have not actively gone out looking for people. I need to get out more.

My views on Flickr are certainly better than they used to be, but not nearly like here. Like you say, the it is all a matter of getting "discovered", and hopefully "explored." I actually put more stuff on Flickr than I do here, only because I have more control there and I can put them up in big batches if I want to. If I decide I don't like an edit over there, I can replace it in a heartbeat. The process takes longer here, but I also update the edits here when I have time. Both sites have their pluses and minuses.

As noted in another post, a lot of magazine editors, calendar editors and other commercial concerns definitely browse RP and it generates hits. One complaint that I hear from some of these folks is that a lot of RP Contributors never answer their e-mails. Being "easy to deal with" makes all of the difference in getting your work published......which kind of leads back to the subject of this thread. Being easy to deal with.....
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Old 12-17-2020, 03:57 PM   #24
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....
My advice for getting people to see your images is networking. If no one has you in their photo stream, you won't get views. When someone follows you, check their "About" page and see if you like their work. If you do, follow them. I also built my contacts by checking who a photographer I admired followed. You could use Mike Danneman or Erik Lindgren, for instance. Check their lists for like-minded photographers, and follow the ones that you like. Your exposure will increase quite a bit as more people "discover" you.
This may sound like a silly question but I only post here and occasionally railroad pictures archives so...
By networking, I assume you mean platforms other than RP?? If so what other platforms do you use? And are you saying that being in other platforms will garner more view here on RP WITHOUT linking?
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Old 12-17-2020, 04:00 PM   #25
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This may sound like a silly question but I only post here and occasionally railroad pictures archives so...
By networking, I assume you mean platforms other than RP?? If so what other platforms do you use? And are you saying that being in other platforms will garner more view here on RP WITHOUT linking?
You're taking my remarks totally out of context. I am only talking about within the confines of Flickr. Read more of the thread.
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