Old 01-08-2006, 02:16 AM   #1
Chris Kilroy
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Default Attention All Photographers

Hello all,

I have spent most of the day today screening over 250 photos, and the problem of folks resubmitting totally unchanged rejected photos (hoping for a more sympathetic screener, or for whatever other reason) has reached a head.

I have seen no less than 10 photographers do this today, some resubmitting the same image 6, 7, or even 8 times. Many of the photos were rejected for problems that cannot be corrected anyway, such as backlighting, obstructing clutter, etc.

Let me announce, here and now, that anyone I catch doing this in the future will immediately have their ability to upload suspended for 1 month. If it happens again after that one month period, not only will I close your account for good, I'll remove all of the photos you have here already.

I couldn't be any more serious about this.

The screeners, and to a lesser extent, myself, volunteer their time to make this website work, and none of us should have to waste our valuable time screening photos that have already been rejected before. The problem has gotten WAY out of control.
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Old 01-08-2006, 02:29 AM   #2
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Tough policy but I can understand your frustration... usually if I resubmit I put a note to screener in the caption with I fixed in the photo. Maybe encourage submitters to do this if appropriate?

or... how about a special resubmission area in the database with a required field for info on what was fixed? Just a thought.

Rich
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Old 01-08-2006, 03:04 AM   #3
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I agree it sounds a little tough, and I understand your frustration also. Perhaps something that would help clear up some of the resubmits would be to develop a page that has all the rejection reasons and state if they are fixable or not, and for those that are fixable examples. There was a table that was posted in a link on the forums, but it was taken down. I know it has to be a tough job to screen, but when people are new they may not know what some of the terms mean.
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Old 01-08-2006, 03:07 AM   #4
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It sounds like the problem is not images that are fixed, but those that can't be fixed, or those that can, but aren't.
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Old 01-08-2006, 03:52 AM   #5
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is there some new reason under the rejected table you can make, saying like "Please keep for your own collection" or "not fixable" or "please dont upload again" or something, so we wont upload again, or just put bad motive if it cant be fixed, because sometimes people think it can be, so if it can be a little clearer on our end, we may not upload again, i think i made a post earlier, asking for you screeners to be straight out honest, whether you want it or not, i for one, like it when you guys just say bad motive, then i just stop uploading it, because like i said, sometimes it's hard to tell what is fixable and what is not

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Old 01-08-2006, 03:59 AM   #6
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Default I think we're jumping a bit too quickly here.

Chris, et al:

I'll admit now I'm guilty of re-uploading a photo today, it was rejected initially for "undersharpening". I took it back and toned up the sharpness a bit, but I did not put anything in the comments saying what I did to correct it. I figured the screener oughtta be able to see the difference.

Nevertheless, if this is such a problem for you guys, why has nobody from your echelon of the site posted any specific guidance about how to approach the re-submission of "corrected" material?

The appeals process is great, but if the photo needs a minor touch up, an appeal isn't going to do anything but waste more time on the part of you or Starnes.

This issue has been brought up in these forums time and time again. I would point out that it doesn't only waste your time, it also wastes the time of the countless photographers and railfans who have as of yet to see any thing in black and white on how to resubmit a corrected image.

I know there's been some unofficial responses in the forums from the crew, but bear in mind, not everyone who contributes photos to our little "community" is a member of these forums. It stands to reason that many of your biggest "culprits" will not even see this thread.

To emphasize that, I had nearly 30 photos in the DB before I even noticed the forums on the front page, and even then it took me 3 more months to realize I could even resubmit a photo for re-consideration.

I'm generally not one to moan and groan about a problem without offering a solution, and this time is no exception. Can we put a 2nd field in the photo submission form that is specifically for the screener? The field could be made active by having a check box that says, "This is a resubmission of previous rejection." This field could be used specifically for this purpose of communicating with the screener about previous rejections.

I know it sucks to have to screen the same picture multiple times, but keep in mind, your staff aren't the only ones that take time out of their day to make RP.net what it has become.

Sorry if this offends, but it needed to be said.
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Old 01-08-2006, 05:16 AM   #7
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Thanks for the comments and suggestions.

I will work on a "Comments to Screener" field tonight on the upload page, along with an explanation of what the field should be used for (such as a note to the screener saying what has been fixed on a resubmitted photo, etc).

That being said, my post wasn't prompted by folks who have reworked a rejected photo to correct whatever problem was present when it was first screened. That is acceptable, and encouraged!

My problem is with those who resubmit a totally unmodified version of a rejected photo, time and time again, obviously fishing for a different screener who'll accept it.

Like I said in my initial post, I screened the same photo (right down to the filesize in bytes) eight times today.
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Old 01-08-2006, 05:37 AM   #8
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The "Comments to Screeners" field has been added to the upload page, at the very bottom. These comments, should something be typed in the field, is visible to screeners at the time the photo is screened.
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Old 01-08-2006, 05:57 AM   #9
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thanks Chris, the thing i was a little scared about this post you made, was that it would scare a lot of members into not uploading photos, but that screener comment idea is a good one, I'll try it out, i have some photos i want to upload tonight, also, are you going to try a new rejection message as i suggested? just curious

thanks
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Old 01-08-2006, 06:00 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Kilroy
My problem is with those who resubmit a totally unmodified version of a rejected photo, time and time again, obviously fishing for a different screener who'll accept it.
I'll admit that no less then a few weeks ago, I too was guilty of re-submitting an unchanged photo twice over a three month period. At that time I was unaware of the general policy of this site regarding this matter, and was corrected by the members of this forum and informed of the applicable guidelines. Now that I know the "dos" and "donts" for the future, I will be sure not to ever re-submit an unchanged photo again...

Now that this problem has been specifically brought to everyone's attention, hopefully it will not occur as frequently in the future.

-Christian S.
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Old 01-08-2006, 12:01 PM   #11
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Or if I only re-submit 2 times with some editing , I think that's ok ...
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Old 01-08-2006, 01:18 PM   #12
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Another suggestion-to add to Sean's comment-instead of the vague 'bad motive' or 'bad angle' would be to have a rejection choice in the screener software for 'not the material we're looking for' or something like that.

If anything I submit then would not be what the site wants, I'd rather know that from the get-go instead of resubmitting.

Thanks for the very timely addition to the upload page!

Rich
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Old 01-08-2006, 02:04 PM   #13
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Trainmonster and othrs;

I have had one or two pictures rejected for "bad motive" and then in screeners comments, they have said something along the lines of "nice shot, but not what we're looking for." Which is very helpful in deciding if a shot just needs a little work or not.

The screening process is very subjective of course. One thing I try to do when resubmitting a different yet similiar version of a rejected shot is to rename it. For me I may put a "v2" at the end of the name, or even "recrop" or "redo." I have no idea if a screeener would even notice this. But I find that keeping different versions of the same reject helps me.

I think theto screeners" feature will work nicely.


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Old 01-08-2006, 02:50 PM   #14
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So uhhh, if you guys tell me you rejected my photo for cropping and to blurry, and I crop it good and make it sharp, thats okay...how many times can I do that???

Or do you only have a problem with when people submit the SAME pic?
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Old 01-08-2006, 03:53 PM   #15
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As being guilty of re-submitting I like the suggestion of re-wording the rejection "Bad Motive". Also I'd liek to say that so far with the "Comments to Screener" addition to the Photo Submission page, I'm 1-for-1. Great feature, Chris!
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Old 01-08-2006, 04:03 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CG_F45
So uhhh, if you guys tell me you rejected my photo for cropping and to blurry, and I crop it good and make it sharp, thats okay...how many times can I do that???
Chris is talking about when a shot is rejected for cropping and too blurry, and then the photographer uploads the same exact shot without any rework whatsoever.


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Old 01-08-2006, 04:39 PM   #17
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Chris, thanks for making the feature. It will help out a lot when uploading.
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Old 01-08-2006, 05:30 PM   #18
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I think this'll cut down on appeals a lot too.. for instance:

Image © Richard Hart
PhotoID: 128344
Photograph © Richard Hart


got rejected for backlighting and got accepted on appeal when I mentioned that it was intentional. This will make things much easier as we can comment up front now. Nice!

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Old 01-08-2006, 07:26 PM   #19
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Chris, the feature is great, just tried it out on a photo i uploaded, and it worked great, Great idea Sean and Chris
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Old 01-08-2006, 09:13 PM   #20
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That's a gorgeous shot, Richard. I'd hve posted a comment, but the system is working against me today. I love black and white stuff and those high hood GP38-2s never get old!


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Old 01-08-2006, 09:14 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drewster
Chris, the feature is great, just tried it out on a photo i uploaded, and it worked great, Great idea Sean and Chris

I agree, I've already put this feature into use a couple of times today, and I think it will pay off big dividends for all involved.

FWIW, not just Chris' or my idea, lots of people have asked for something like this.

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Old 01-08-2006, 10:19 PM   #22
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What I was getting at last night by saying it would be nice to have a table somewhere on the site of the meanings of the rejection terms was that when you don't have a lot of experience submitting on here it is hard to know what some of them mean. Anybody with half a brain should know that bad angle and similar terms are pretty cut and dry, but I've seen lots of people confused about what to do to pictures. My thinking was that if there was something like this in place, or if there were more imput from the screeners on some of the shots it would definately cut down on the number of times it took to get a photo propperly edited and therefore cutting down on the volume that the screeners have to go through. It seems like it would help all of us out in the long run with just a little bit of time from us all.
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Old 01-09-2006, 02:08 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Kilroy
Let me announce, here and now, that anyone I catch doing this in the future will immediately have their ability to upload suspended for 1 month.
Chris;

I understand your frustration with this. However, if you're going to threaten suspension of one's uploading capabilities to the web site, please make sure that the resublittal is really the same shot. Consider these two by me --

http://www.railpictures.net/viewreject.php?id=201220

That one was rejected for too much image compression which upon reflection, is probably correct. So I went back to my color 1024X768 version of the shot and tried again, this time desaturating it but not sharpening it again as I had done previous. I uploaded it here

http://www.railpictures.net/viewreject.php?id=201230

and got this in an e-mail --

"Reason(s) for Rejection:

- Uncorrected Reupload: This image appears to be an uncorrected resubmission of a previously rejected photo. You are welcome to re-upload images as long as you have made improvements to them. Please do not let this be a problem in the future."

I believe if you look closely at the two pics, you will see that the rocks are over sharpened in the first rejection and not so much in the second. There are also some tell tale signs of over compression around the number boards and the wood legs of the trestle.

I've appealed the second rejection, but since you brought this to the atttention of the group, I thought it prudent to mention that not all of us are guilty of resubmitting the same photo.

Thank you for your time,


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Old 01-09-2006, 02:34 AM   #24
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Your photo got accepted. Nice shot.
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Old 01-09-2006, 02:43 AM   #25
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I've had the same thing happen to me for a similar situation.
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