Old 01-31-2022, 12:45 AM   #1
abr
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Default Horizon Leaning Right

Any suggestions on a good reference point for the horizon on this shot?

https://www.railpictures.net/viewrej...91&key=7173878

The catenary poles are a bit far from center, so I'm not entirely sure what I should go off of when making an adjustment here. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance!
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Old 01-31-2022, 02:13 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by abr View Post
Any suggestions on a good reference point for the horizon on this shot?

https://www.railpictures.net/viewrej...91&key=7173878

The catenary poles are a bit far from center, so I'm not entirely sure what I should go off of when making an adjustment here. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance!
What about the stanchion just above the front of the first coach? That's probably a good reference point. Though, having said that, the stanchions in the left and the right of the picture seem to be leaning the same way. Those are probably your reference points. Align the grid on those.
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Old 01-31-2022, 11:35 AM   #3
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You're right...the cat poles are a bit far from center. But they're also the only solid reference point. So choose the one closest to the center of the photograph, which is the one emanating from the front of the first car, and level based on that as true vertical. To me, it looks like about 0.5 degree CCW should do it.

That said, I'm the last person that should be giving advice on this topic, so you might want to wait until someone else chimes in before taking any action.

/Ted
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Old 01-31-2022, 12:32 PM   #4
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It's a lot easier to determine to determine true vertical it the vertical references are all parallel. In the "Transform" menu in Lightroom, there is a Vertical Transform adjustment that accomplishes this. Working iteratively between the vertical and rotate adjustments, you can determine true vertical quickly. I do this for all of my images.
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Old 01-31-2022, 01:11 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Decapod401 View Post
It's a lot easier to determine to determine true vertical it the vertical references are all parallel. In the "Transform" menu in Lightroom, there is a Vertical Transform adjustment that accomplishes this. Working iteratively between the vertical and rotate adjustments, you can determine true vertical quickly. I do this for all of my images.

I don't use Lightroom but in Camera RAw there is a similar function in the pull down under Geometry pulll down, which gives you different option which works pretty well in normal cases(not always).

I took the liberty of trying it out. Will be interesting if you can squeeze this in? as in your face images don't seem to be favored in my experience.

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Old 02-01-2022, 05:26 PM   #6
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Actually, y'all ae overthinking it. Just look at the train itself toward the end of the locomotive. It needs .5-1.0% CCW rotation. But then that's going to bring up a cropping/framing issue. The train is awful tight on the right
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Old 02-01-2022, 10:29 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by abr View Post
Any suggestions on a good reference point for the horizon on this shot?

https://www.railpictures.net/viewrej...91&key=7173878

The catenary poles are a bit far from center, so I'm not entirely sure what I should go off of when making an adjustment here. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance!
The light poles along the left edge are vertically level, as well as the verticals of the fence along the right side of the frame. You'd have to do some wonky warping of the middle of the frame to get those poles level without making the elements on the left and right sides of the frame unlevel.

Hence, not a valid rejection.
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Old 02-02-2022, 12:58 AM   #8
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The light poles along the left edge are vertically level, as well as the verticals of the fence along the right side of the frame. You'd have to do some wonky warping of the middle of the frame to get those poles level without making the elements on the left and right sides of the frame unlevel.

Hence, not a valid rejection.
I disagree with your reasoning in this case, Jim. Catenary poles are structural in nature and have been holding the wires of the PRR electrification taught for 85+ years. These steel I-beams were engineered and installed just as carefully as the vertical members of a major building. Relative to the catenary poles, the verticals that you cited are much less reliable.

Here is my correction based on the methods that I mentioned above. Full disclosure - my image is all vertical distortion correction and zero rotation, so the image as posted is level. A screener can't determine that when no reliable vertical confirms this in the original submission.

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Old 02-06-2022, 03:43 PM   #9
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I disagree with your reasoning in this case, Jim. Catenary poles are structural in nature and have been holding the wires of the PRR electrification taught for 85+ years. These steel I-beams were engineered and installed just as carefully as the vertical members of a major building. Relative to the catenary poles, the verticals that you cited are much less reliable.
Reliable or not, you missed the point of my post. And in your correction, all the verticals on the right are leaning to the right.
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Old 02-06-2022, 09:07 PM   #10
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I still say look at the end of the locomotive. But now that I look again, use the pole sticking out of the top of the car just behind the loco. It's leaning ever so slightly right in the redo.
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Old 02-06-2022, 10:08 PM   #11
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Reliable or not, you missed the point of my post. And in your correction, all the verticals on the right are leaning to the right.
Nice try, but look again. The fence is leaning. All of the verticals in the building in the background behind it are vertical.
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Old 02-06-2022, 10:17 PM   #12
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I still say look at the end of the locomotive. But now that I look again, use the pole sticking out of the top of the car just behind the loco. It's leaning ever so slightly right in the redo.
I have quite a few photos of the PRR electrification where there is one outlier, probably due to a minor derailment during its 100-year history. WRT using the locomotive, where? All of the surfaces are curved/convex, and there is no line that should be vertical.
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Old 02-07-2022, 12:15 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by abr View Post
Any suggestions on a good reference point for the horizon on this shot?

https://www.railpictures.net/viewrej...91&key=7173878

The catenary poles are a bit far from center, so I'm not entirely sure what I should go off of when making an adjustment here. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance!
I'd suggest you use the catenary tower stanchion nearest the middle of the shot - make that vertical and that's about the best you can do. You'll have some perspective distortion no matter what because you were tilting the camera up. I'm not sure you can save it though because you're so tightly framed - no frames before this with the train a bit further back?

Here's what it looks like with that method (if the upload worked): I'll have to re-post, my edit didn't get recorded.
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Last edited by xBNSFer; 02-07-2022 at 12:17 AM. Reason: My edit didn't get recorded...I'll try again.
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Old 02-07-2022, 12:18 AM   #14
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Here you go...
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Old 02-07-2022, 02:42 PM   #15
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Let's be honest, how many of you would have even noticed had the original shot been accepted? We are picking some mighty fine nits IMHO.......
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Old 02-10-2022, 12:28 AM   #16
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I'd notice. But then, my aversion to cockeyed photos is more pronounced than RP's aversion to shadows, so there's that.
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Old 02-16-2022, 04:57 PM   #17
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Let's be honest, how many of you would have even noticed had the original shot been accepted? We are picking some mighty fine nits IMHO.......
My thoughts exactly! Maybe you should've said that the screeners are picking at some mighty fine nits. I agree with your opinion.
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Old 02-26-2022, 03:39 PM   #18
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My thoughts exactly! Maybe you should've said that the screeners are picking at some mighty fine nits. I agree with your opinion.
What else is new...then again, they don't seem to pick that particular nit very consistently. Witness this example...

https://www.railpictures.net/photo/795703/

Maybe leaning left is OK.
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