Old 12-03-2007, 02:55 AM   #1
Niles
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Default Posting cab shots.

I have a question regarding posting cab shots. Today I was so happy that I got to look in the cab of my favorite locomotive and I want to summit the shots. However in the past I have heard some say not to post cab shots because I could get the crew in trouble. Can the help me in making my decision please. Thanks.
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Old 12-03-2007, 03:00 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Niles
I have a question regarding posting cab shots. Today I was so happy that I got to look in the cab of my favorite locomotive and I want to summit the shots. However in the past I have heard some say not to post cab shots because I could get the crew in trouble. Can the help me in making my decision please. Thanks.
Conceal the engine number, location, etc.
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Old 12-03-2007, 03:14 AM   #3
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I should add that the photo I have will be easily identified because of the subject manner. Also the number of the engine is in the cab itself. Thanks.
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Old 12-03-2007, 03:30 AM   #4
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I have had the same question in my mind in the past, but mine has to do with shots from inside a tower. I'd love to post them, but I don't want to get the tower operator in trouble. I have had them about 3 years now and have thus far resisted the urge to post them. But as soon as the tower is closed, I will be posting a few for sure.
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Old 12-03-2007, 03:38 AM   #5
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When you say cab photo was this on a tourist railroad, or a railroad like CSX or NS?
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Old 12-03-2007, 03:42 AM   #6
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The railroad in question is a class 1 Canadian railroad.
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Old 12-03-2007, 03:52 AM   #7
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My general rules for posting cab photos is leave off the following: engine number (unless obvious), train number, location, and exact date. And/or wait a long period of time to post. Even if you leave out the info, if it's a dead give away when/where the shot was taken simply by the subject matter (as you've indiciated), you might want to not post it at all. When in doubt, do not post.

Also, it's never a bad idea to ask the crew if they mind if you post a photo to the internet, on a popular website, with some info concealed. Some I've met have said they don't care, and some have said no; just always respect their wishes. We don't want the crews that are nice enough to accomodate us getting in trouble.

Last edited by Flowing; 12-03-2007 at 03:55 AM.
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Old 12-03-2007, 04:30 AM   #8
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Yea id go with what they say. If you took the pic in December just have the date as Dec. 2007. And on loco # put N/A
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Old 12-03-2007, 04:39 AM   #9
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Always assume that everything you post on line will be read by someone in authority at some point in time.

If a picture would get another person in trouble, assume that your posting that picture will get that person in trouble.

Decide based on that.
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Old 12-04-2007, 03:22 PM   #10
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I have decided that is probably best not to post shot because I don't want to get anybody on the railroad in trouble. However an interesting twist has now entered in because someone else of railpictures.net has added a near exact photo with all the information and everything.
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Old 12-04-2007, 03:52 PM   #11
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I just leave my camera off if I get a cab ride, or get to go into the cab of any railroad that isnt a tourist railroad. Makes it a lot less tempting to post pictures.
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Old 12-04-2007, 06:31 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Niles
I have decided that is probably best not to post shot because I don't want to get anybody on the railroad in trouble. However an interesting twist has now entered in because someone else of railpictures.net has added a near exact photo with all the information and everything.
Saw that (if it's the one I assume it is). If a crew member was doing that photographer a favor letting him view the cab and that favor could get the crew member in trouble, then the photographer is biting the hand that fed him.

That being said, I know nothing about the details of how/why the photographer was on the cab, and I make no judgement in him whatsoever.

I have plenty of cab shots taken under conditions in which no one would have gotten in trouble for my posting them... and I may post them one day.

It's really all about getting someone in trouble for doing you a favor. That's something I personally would never want to do.
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Old 12-04-2007, 06:54 PM   #13
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Keep in mind that there are several RR employees on this site that post shots they take while at work. Christopher M. Palmieri is an example of this.
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Old 12-04-2007, 07:13 PM   #14
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Keep in mind that there are several RR employees on this site that post shots they take while at work. Christopher M. Palmieri is an example of this.
Oh... agreed... and moreover, many cab shots have been taken when people have had railroad permission to be in the cab for other reasons.

My point is simply that you shouldn't post any image that is going to get someone in trouble... doesn't matter if it's a cab shot or not.
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Old 12-07-2007, 03:46 PM   #15
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As has been said before, be very careful, and when in doubt, don't post them at all. I have numerous shots from the cab of various CSX units, but none have been posted yet, nor will they. It's too big of a risk to the crews who were kind enough to allow me in the cab, and for what? Another cab shot on the internet? Any idiot could figure that one out!

Now, I will say this - from various sources, I know that CSX keeps people on their payroll SPECIFICALLY looking at websites such as Railpictures.Net for cab images, images in which the railfan was obviously trespassing, or images in which a crew member is in violation of a rule (if I'm ever in doubt, I won't post an image - I had a beautiful image of Q381 at sunset with an H1/Warbonnet duo that never made it on here for that reason). I do know of several photos on this very site that have gotten CSX crew members suspended for 30 days, so yes, the threat is very real!

I would advise that it be a common unit, preferably at night or somewhere where surrounding details outside the windows won't give away location. If you can, Photoshop out any numbers or identifiers. Then post it without a date, location, or unit number (just the railroad and locomotive model). And, if you're ever in doubt, don't post it! I've seen some very incriminating shots on here, and I really wish the Railpictures.Net staff would be more diligent about rejecting these shots on the grounds that they could cause some repercussions for the crew members on the train...but, that's their call.
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Old 12-07-2007, 04:53 PM   #16
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Railroad crews would do good to not leave it to railfns with cameras to keep them out of trouble. I don't know most of the rules on the railroad, so I might post someone not doing something right. If that person then gets in trouble, sorry, but I don't feel bad about it. I did get an e-mail several years ago from a railroad asking when I took a certain picture. It was just a case where I happened to be out and the train happened to be out too as I was on my way elsewhere. Turns out I caught a crew member letting someone on board who wasn't supposed to be on board. I had no idea. Management was none too pleased.

As for cab shots, I've taken a few in my pre-digital, heck, pre-slide days. Neither will ever get posted to RP because the quality is sub par. If I get a chance to go in a cab now, I would ask before taking pictures out of courtesy. Truthfully, I'm not a big fan of cab shots so unless it was a short line, I probably wouldn't care to take a picture in the first place.

It reminds me of a story my TV station covered. A fellow photographer was shooting a crime scene from behind the yellow tape. In the course of getting the shots, he saw a young guy inside the tape acting very non chalantly. He shot the fellow for severalminutes as nothing else was going on and later when he got back to the station, he showed the tape to some of the reporters. Turns out the young man was the son of the police chief and had no business being behind the tape. An investigation by the city manager revealed the police chief had allowed family members at murder scenes and the police chief was asked to resign. Word is the police chief was none too happy with our station for putting his son on TV. Guess what. We live in the TV age. Best advice to anyone, esp. railroad crews, is to always assume you may have a camera pointed at you.


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Old 12-07-2007, 10:53 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TAMR159
I would advise that it be a common unit, preferably at night or somewhere where surrounding details outside the windows won't give away location. If you can, Photoshop out any numbers or identifiers. Then post it without a date, location, or unit number (just the railroad and locomotive model).
Don't forget about the image's EXIF data either... or all of that work will have been for nothing.
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Old 12-08-2007, 04:01 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe the Photog
Railroad crews would do good to not leave it to railfns with cameras to keep them out of trouble. I don't know most of the rules on the railroad, so I might post someone not doing something right. If that person then gets in trouble, sorry, but I don't feel bad about it. I did get an e-mail several years ago from a railroad asking when I took a certain picture. It was just a case where I happened to be out and the train happened to be out too as I was on my way elsewhere. Turns out I caught a crew member letting someone on board who wasn't supposed to be on board. I had no idea. Management was none too pleased.

As for cab shots, I've taken a few in my pre-digital, heck, pre-slide days. Neither will ever get posted to RP because the quality is sub par. If I get a chance to go in a cab now, I would ask before taking pictures out of courtesy. Truthfully, I'm not a big fan of cab shots so unless it was a short line, I probably wouldn't care to take a picture in the first place.

It reminds me of a story my TV station covered. A fellow photographer was shooting a crime scene from behind the yellow tape. In the course of getting the shots, he saw a young guy inside the tape acting very non chalantly. He shot the fellow for severalminutes as nothing else was going on and later when he got back to the station, he showed the tape to some of the reporters. Turns out the young man was the son of the police chief and had no business being behind the tape. An investigation by the city manager revealed the police chief had allowed family members at murder scenes and the police chief was asked to resign. Word is the police chief was none too happy with our station for putting his son on TV. Guess what. We live in the TV age. Best advice to anyone, esp. railroad crews, is to always assume you may have a camera pointed at you.


Joe
And it's for this reason that so many railroaders hate railfans. I'll put it simply: it's a two way street. If you respect them (don't post incriminating photos, stay out of their way, and don't do anything stupid), they'll respect you (going against their rules by NOT calling you in, maybe going so far as to give you some helpful information if they're stopped somewhere). We sit out there all day taking pictures of them, and they just roll by with a friendly wave - I think we could at least send them a little respect in return (this is primarily how I've befriended so many railroaders). But, I doubt I'll change your "show no mercy" attitude...just remember, railroaders are professional revenge-seekers!
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Old 12-08-2007, 04:34 AM   #19
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As a locomotive engineer on a Class 1 railroad, and a former employee of two different shortlines, as well as a hard core railfan myself, I feel qualified to discuss this topic.

Common courtesy dictates that you avoid carrying out your own hobby where it may be detrimental to the well-being of other individuals.

As a railroader, I see ALOT of the stupid stuff some railfans do. Its these rather dense individuals who create a VERY bad image for the rest of us. As a railroader, I play a fine line between my enjoyment of my job, and the need to DO my job.

Railroads demand that employees turn in ALL tresspassers to the appropriate supervisor. Yet, at the same time, there are instances where doing just that can inflame public opinion against the road. As the employees in the field, that is a decision we have to make for ourselves. Do we report someone who is technically tresspassing, but only by a foot or so, has taken steps to keep themselves safe and to avoid interfering with the safe operation of the railroad? Or do we let this one responsible individual (or group) get their picture (or deer as the case may be) in relative peace?

Its a decision that requires split second thinking and analyzing of teh situation.

And then we read something like this thread... railroaders beware. Hmmm.

It only stands to reason that a railroader will not only prevent a railfan from obtaining the picture he/she wants, but also quite likely report them for being too close or for terroristic attitudes.

Keep in mind, every report of a tresspasser is sent to the railroad's own police department for investigation. And a railroad police officer is much more different than a local cop. In addition to enforcing railroad-oriented laws, he also is a security officer of the corporation. And any report that smells faintly of bad-business WILL get passed on to DHS or the FBI.

Then you have people like a certain N.P.W. I know. He gets coffee for the crews when they are stuck at signals, he offers rides when the crew has to walk the train, and he asks for nothing in return. Crews respect a railfan who is polite, courteous, and helpful.

I know of some fans in my area that have established themselves as responsible members of the community. Some of the crews will even go so far as to call them when something unique is happening... even if that same crew is teh first to call in a railfan for tresspassing, all because they were courteous or helpful to them in the past.

Take it for what you will, but also remember this... you get more flies with honey then with vinegar.

And, railroaders have better memories then elephants... cross one crew just once, and your name will be known on the entire division, with a target next to it, railroaders are merciless in revenge.

For what its worth, this has been a presentation by the Railroader/Railfan Relationship Experts at JDG Industries, (AAR JDGX) JDGX is a rail-related holding company that is owned by J.D. Gallaway
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Old 12-08-2007, 04:46 AM   #20
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And, railroaders have better memories then elephants... cross one crew just once, and your name will be known on the entire division, with a target next to it, railroaders are merciless in revenge.
Well, everyone at BNSF in the northern Red River Valley knows who I am as my photo and bio as well as some of my photos hang in the Grand Forks BNSF Terminal Building just inside the front door.

It's amazing what doors can be opened for you if you follow the rules and earn a good name for yourself. Who would've thought a Class I railroad would publically honor a railfan?!? Pretty cool...
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Old 12-08-2007, 04:51 AM   #21
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It boils down to this... respect others the way you would like to be respected. When you respect someone, what they do, who they are... they will respect you.
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Old 12-08-2007, 06:09 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Freericks
It boils down to this... respect others the way you would like to be respected. When you respect someone, what they do, who they are... they will respect you.
Exactly. The other big thing is this: railroaders don't want to hear how much you know about trains. They do this for a living, so chances are, they probably know far more than you do anyhow - just sit back and absorb the information. Not only will you learn interesting, reliable information, but it'll also help you to earn their respect...they're not a hard breed to please (unlike women!).
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Old 12-08-2007, 06:21 AM   #23
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...deleted for PC reasons...

Last edited by jgallaway81; 12-08-2007 at 06:23 AM. Reason: Pulling the foot out of my mouth.
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