Old 02-25-2007, 04:39 PM   #1
Mike Mautner
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Default Horizon Unlevel Reject Help!

Hello, this was rejected for being un-level.I can not see what is un-level,what can be done to correct this?
Thanks! Mike
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Old 02-25-2007, 05:30 PM   #2
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That's a tricky one. The telephone pole looks quite level, as does the rest of the scene...but then there's that Leaning Tower of Locoville in the background. Very odd sense it creates. Without that tower, this image WOULD look level.

Wait...hold on...I take that back. Maybe that perfectly vertical pole is the one that should be crooked and the rest in the background level. I'll give it a go...
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Old 02-25-2007, 05:30 PM   #3
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make the verticals of the tower perfectly vertical. They look a bit off, slightly tilted right.

Personally, I find verticals often to be a more reliable measure of "level" than horizontals.
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Old 02-25-2007, 05:44 PM   #4
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This is a really tough call. Look at the corner line of the concrete base of the tower as well as the vertical on the right side of the tower. I ran a guide line next to both and they are almost perfectly vertical. I think what we're seeing here is some kind of optical illusion. The tower IS level, but something about it's construction gives it the illusion of a slight lean.

I'd appeal and point those things out.

I think what is throwing things off are the vertical lines on the wall of the tower. Those are NOT perfectly vertical even though the corner edges are.

Here is a levelled version based on those lines being perfectly vertical. I didn't crop it so you can see how much I rotated it:
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Old 02-25-2007, 05:55 PM   #5
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Jim, given what you have shown, I would certainly NOT appeal. Instead, I would do the adjustment you made and submit. The verticals were not vertical, not even the right side of the tower, now it is corrected. You made a substantial rotation, which was needed here.
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Old 02-25-2007, 06:42 PM   #6
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I'd be more concerned if not moreso about the lack of sharpness in the picture -- it looks really out of focus -- as well as a possible Bad Motive or Bad Cropping reject coming down since there's not an entire engine in the shot.


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Old 02-25-2007, 07:03 PM   #7
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Fair enough, Joe, but presumably those reasons would have been mentioned if given. He may get them the second time around.

By the way, Mike or anyone else, what is the story behind the oversided "2" on the 629?
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Old 02-25-2007, 08:19 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe the Photog
I'd be more concerned if not moreso about the lack of sharpness in the picture -- it looks really out of focus -- as well as a possible Bad Motive or Bad Cropping reject coming down since there's not an entire engine in the shot.


Joe
I understand what you're saying, Joe, but a half-engine shot isn't always a rejected shot, so he may still have a chance.



I think what's interesting about his picture above is that it appears the three locos have all just pulled up and parked like you would in a car. They just look so random.
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Old 02-25-2007, 09:42 PM   #9
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aww I keep seeing youse guys trying to determine why a shot is rejected. Well, I don't always know why I like some shots, dislike others, and think some $#$%... There is no reason to expect that guys who judge your shots are any different, so it seems to me that the most often reason is::: "I don't know, I didn't like it, and then had to find an excuse, so I used a vague one that could not be faulted or the dart board on the wall." ... could be.. Ed
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Old 02-25-2007, 10:46 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EdM
aww I keep seeing youse guys trying to determine why a shot is rejected. Well, I don't always know why I like some shots, dislike others, and think some $#$%... There is no reason to expect that guys who judge your shots are any different, so it seems to me that the most often reason is::: "I don't know, I didn't like it, and then had to find an excuse, so I used a vague one that could not be faulted or the dart board on the wall." ... could be.. Ed
I have to disagree, Ed. I've been reading this board regularly since late November when I resumed posting pictures at RP, and I have learned a lot about what goes in, what doesn't, and for that matter, what might be "good" but doesn't meet RP's particular criteria. The screeners definitely have criteria and much more often than not they are way on the objective side of the objective/subjective spectrum. The main exception is "bad motive," and even with those it is becoming increasing clear what they like and what they do not.
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Old 02-25-2007, 11:26 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EdM
aww I keep seeing youse guys trying to determine why a shot is rejected.
Well, if someone asks for an opinion and help, why not help them?
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Old 02-26-2007, 04:07 AM   #12
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Approximately .5° degrees CCW rotation?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimThias
Here is a levelled version based on those lines being perfectly vertical. I didn't crop it so you can see how much I rotated it:
Ed, I'd like to think we're sharing OPINIONS on why a shot was rejected, rather than constant ass-kissing about shots that are potentially sub par just because 'we have NO issues with ANY shots', like you do.

You like "some shots" because you obviously have no judgment skills whatsoever, and your statement below proves as much. If you can't look at a shot, and ascertain whether or not the shot, I wouldn't trust your moderation skills. I'd like to know what you think about some of the work posted on other non-moderated websites, than perhaps I'll understand why you're so lax about photographic composition as you appear to be here.

Thank god you're not a photo moderator ~ the photos accepted would reek of indecisiveness. At least the mods can see something wrong with a photo, rather than just "well geez,...I like it, but I just can't pick out what attracts me to it".

Even though I can't stand the endless parade of widecabs that are published on various websites, even as a mod, I can't envision myself denying them.

So, why rekindle the conspiracy theory of cliques and unintelligable moderation, I can't help but ask?


Quote:
Originally Posted by EdM
aww I keep seeing youse guys trying to determine why a shot is rejected. Well, I don't always know why I like some shots, dislike others, and think some $#$%... There is no reason to expect that guys who judge your shots are any different, so it seems to me that the most often reason is::: "I don't know, I didn't like it, and then had to find an excuse, so I used a vague one that could not be faulted or the dart board on the wall." ... could be.. Ed

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Old 02-26-2007, 11:25 AM   #13
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I dont really disagree with much of the comments made, just wanted to add another angle, and it sure got the ball rolling.. that can't be bad, better too much discord than none.. ... enjoy..ed
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Old 02-26-2007, 02:57 PM   #14
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To a minor extent, I can agree, the reasons for rejection are VERY generic & vague ~ they lack detail to whatever it is they are pointing out. But when "X" number of photos are accepted -v- rejected, to sit back & "excuse" each one where the problem is obvious is a waste of time.
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Old 02-28-2007, 12:43 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EdM
There is no reason to expect that guys who judge your shots are any different, so it seems to me that the most often reason is::: "I don't know, I didn't like it, and then had to find an excuse, so I used a vague one that could not be faulted or the dart board on the wall." ... could be.. Ed
Can't be.

Listen, Ed, I was the one who screened the photo in question here and I rejected it solely for being UNLEVEL. I honestly don't like being accused of rejecting photos just because "I don't like it" or for showing any other bias to photos submitted. Please take your slander elsewhere if you think there is something "fishy" going on because I can assure you it is not.
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Old 02-28-2007, 05:55 AM   #16
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Default Crop tool

This shot to me looks perfectly vertical around the right hand loco, but definitely looks tilted around the tower. I used the crop tool in photoshop, selected the whole picture, ticked the perspective box and then just pulled in the top left hand corner slightly. To my eye, this seems to have done the trick, whereas the earlier correction where the whole picture was rotated made the tower look vertical but then made the right hand loco look tilted.
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Old 02-28-2007, 11:31 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jason15c
To my eye, this seems to have done the trick, whereas the earlier correction where the whole picture was rotated made the tower look vertical but then made the right hand loco look tilted.
I don't see it, but that's neither here nor there.

So, what happened to Mike?
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Old 02-28-2007, 12:11 PM   #18
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Listen, Ed, I was the one who screened the photo in question here and I rejected it solely for being UNLEVEL. I honestly don't like being accused of rejecting photos just because "I don't like it" or for showing any other bias to photos submitted. Please take your slander elsewhere if you think there is something "fishy" going on because I can assure you it is not.


Well, if you can accuse me of slander, I guess I can accuse you of paranoria (if I could spell it).. Lighten up, this is supposed to be fun. BTW "methinks thou protestist too much".. We all have our theorys..and it is not fishy, it is human nature...and if you do not realize that you MAY be biased, well, then you are... solly. Smile... youse guys are going a great job, my complaint is mainly with the guys who try to modifiy their standards to comply with yours, i.e. the willingness to march to the beat of another drummer to get what one thinks is a great photo, "accepted".. "I dont like it" is a completely valid reason for rejection... To try to quantify that statement, unless the reason is obvious, is mostly an exercise in spinning wheels.
I dont really disagree with much of the comments made, just wanted to add another angle, and it sure got the ball rolling.. that can't be bad, better too much discord than none Ed
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Old 02-28-2007, 12:21 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EdM
Well, if you can accuse me of slander, I guess I can accuse you of paranoria (if I could spell it).. Lighten up, this is supposed to be fun. BTW "methinks thou protestist too much".. We all have our theorys..and it is not fishy, it is human nature...and if you do not realize that you MAY be biased, well, then you are... solly. Smile... youse guys are going a great job, my complaint is mainly with the guys who try to modifiy their standards to comply with yours, i.e. the willingness to march to the beat of another drummer to get what one thinks is a great photo, "accepted".. Ed
You CANNOT dispute that your photo level isn't level, because it very clearly isn't level. No need to accuse anyone of anything in this case.
Straighten it and resubmit.
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Old 02-28-2007, 12:40 PM   #20
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again, I wasn't disputing the reason. let it be ... _._ Ed
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Old 02-28-2007, 03:15 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EdM
youse guys are going a great job, my complaint is mainly with the guys who try to modifiy their standards to comply with yours, i.e. the willingness to march to the beat of another drummer to get what one thinks is a great photo, "accepted".. "I dont like it" is a completely valid reason for rejection... To try to quantify that statement, unless the reason is obvious, is mostly an exercise in spinning wheels.
Ed, seriously, I've been wondering for a while, why do you read this forum? That's a serious question, not a rhetorical one. This forum is about a) modifying pictures to comply with RP standards, and to a lesser extent, b) talking about pictures in terms of starndards, criteria, characteristics, etc., in a way which strongly implies that some things are often (not always) better than others, and in general that one can say one picture is "good" and another less so, and one version of a picture is "better" than another. And then considering making changes in how we take pictures or process them, and thinking about our own standards.

This is completely against your world view! Completely opposite to your view that all pictures can be great, that there are no valid standards, etc. What do you get out of reading this forum?

Quote:
I dont really disagree with much of the comments made, just wanted to add another angle, and it sure got the ball rolling.. that can't be bad, better too much discord than none Ed
This is the second time you have made a statement like this. In your value system, is it a positive thing to cause discord just for the sake of doing so? To stir the pot up so that, well, I don't know. You are not debating, because you don't disagree with anything (except that others have a basis for exercising their judgments), so you are not adding to the intellectual content, because to you nothing has meaning. No judgment, no analysis, no thought, just words. Your statements are empty to me. What in your mind is the value of what you write?

I don't write this with the intent to criticize, not as a personal attack (although it is obvious by now that I am not a fan of your writing) but rather because I really, really do not understand what you are about. I guess what I write may sound like criticism, but it's more of where I am in one galaxy and you are in another and I don't get you.

If I am wrong and people tell me this is too personal and it's an attack, I shall delete my post.
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Old 02-28-2007, 03:34 PM   #22
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Thanks for all the help guys, I appreciate it.I just needed help in fixing an image, not to start bickering among the members of this forum.I decided to let this photo go, and did'nt bother appealing it.
Thanks Again!
Mike
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Old 02-28-2007, 04:39 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRMDC
If I am wrong and people tell me this is too personal and it's an attack, I shall delete my post.
Heck no! Don't delete it. I know there are many people including myself that are just plain sick of Ed's "babbling" in these forums. As J said this forum is for constructive criticism whether it is telling the photo does not work or that there is a slight issue with it. When it got to the point where he criticized the crew of putting their opinions above the "guidelines" that the admins (not screeners) created it had gone too far.

Thank you for putting your post in such an eloquent manor; something I couldn't do.
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Old 02-28-2007, 05:12 PM   #24
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Default Ed, seriously, I've been wondering for a while, why do you read this forum?

An appriciation of the vast differance in opinions expressed. the opinions run the gamit from "why didn't I think of that" all the way to "that guy is nutz". that is why every now and then I try to sturr the pot a little. Interesting to note that I thought that two of the guys would get banned, but only one did, later I figgered out why.. don't take me too seriously, but there is nothing worse than a forum that dies from disinterest.....notice that I have never mentioned the name or addressed anyone personally, just their thoughts, perhaps there is a lesson to be learned there by some... have fun & enjoy.. Ed
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Old 02-28-2007, 05:26 PM   #25
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Default This is the second time you have made a statement like this

not so, I just thought had not read it the first time...and it bore repeating.. solly. Notice also that after I had said "let it be", a few more "suggestions" came out of the woodwork. Guess I must hit a little nerve, gotcha thinking, gotcha participatiing...maybe a little off topic, but communicating, learning or trying to teach... tinking... 'Tis good.. ... _._
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